GreenGiant

...and they're all called Mrs Chismer. Alma Chismer. As in... "Alma Chismer car worth? If I was to PX it." "So, we're going to be helping you to buy a car today?" "Maybe" "What car are you looking to buy?" "I don't know yet...errrrr...how about that black one on the corner.... Alma Chismer car worth against that?" *sigh*

...according to this Pulitzer Prize candidate... linktorubbisharticle Is it just me, or is this article absolute cobblers? Meaningless, irrelevant nonsense, with no specific facts to back up the claim, no examples, no conclusion. In fact, no actual story, just a bit of pathetic attention-seeking. It doesn't do the publication, or Carsnip, any favours in my eyes.

Might as well tie a bungee rope to the back of the 807...

Yep. So you guys just soften 'em up for me, please and do the test drive/finance quote/px valuation etc, there's good fellows. I'm ever so grateful.

Unless it's a cookery book. Or the bible. Or a colouring book called 'Colouring Book' maybe? Anyway, another rule of the Motor Trade: Knobs buy cars.

Sign in to Autofind. Click on add vehicle then put in reg no and mileage . Trade values are then available. If you don't want to actually advertise your car, don't click on Submit Vehicle.

I pointed these guys out a few months ago: https://www.autorola.co.uk/autofind/about.do Sign up with them and CAP & Glass valuations come free via VRM lookup. I haven't paid for either for years.

I hear there was an AutoTrader P/X valuation ad during half time of the Europa final. More potential customers (albeit from Liverpool and Seville) that won't be seeing our cars...

This AutoTrader Part Exchange Valuation Tool discrimination thingy… A bit of background for those who are unaware of what it’s all about: Notwithstanding the fact that they have no real experience in retail sales (except, perhaps, the odd vial of snake oil or two), but, as they are keen to lecture us, are fully switched on to the digital age, AT have taken it upon themselves to try and become the Masters of the Universe that we call the motor trade and not just be the advertising portal that we thought they were (and pay them to be). They have seemingly invented their own ‘Cosmic Key’ and are using it to take control by promoting products that directly compete with our offerings such as Finance (Zuto) and Insurance (Comparethemarket). Obviously generating revenue for themselves via intro commissions (or else why do it?) and slowly evolving into a ‘one-stop-shop’ for car buyers (OUR customers). Probably as a result of pressures from the City to generate even more revenue, they are also constantly trying to find ways to squeeze THEIR paying customers (us) harder and harder by monetising every single piece of data and every interaction. Think Ryanair. Only greedier. This two-pronged assault on our businesses is obviously having an effect. We are all seeing a decline in enquiries and the only truly profitable dealers are having to be very cute by buying and selling cars that are a bit different from the norm. The regular, standard-spec family car is not a big earner for anyone any more. Fact. But that’s not enough. Now it seems they’re trying to get involved with the actual nitty-gritty buying and selling of cars. There are rumours of links with Auction Houses, Car-Buying services and Car Supermarkets. Links that, if true, will chip away more of what we do best and will undoubtedly put ordinary dealers out of business and result in an unrecognisable Motor Trade where, eventually, there will only be PLC-owned superstores and street corner banger traders. Is this a good thing? The chipping-away has already started. The Part Exchange Valuation Tool is being rolled out at enormous expense (Media ads, front page banners etc) and we are told that it is a wonderful thing that will drive more enquiries and, by default, generate more sales. And they are giving anyone who wants to know the trade value of any car you want to mention. Just from a reg no and mileage. A superhero feat any He-Man (or She-Ra) would be proud of, if it were that simple (I’m not going to go into how rubbish the valuations are, or how flawed the data is they use). Anyway, this we can be associated with for FREE! (for now…) We do, however, have the right to opt out if we feel that, actually, we don’t need their help in valuing a car and many have obviously done so. What they have shockingly failed to inform us, however, is that this opt out will result in NONE of our cars being returned in searches by people looking for cars on AT that select the ‘Part Exchange’ route through their site. This is a scandal and an outrage. What they have basically said is “use our valuations or we won’t publish your ads” Except they haven’t actually said it to anyone, but have just implemented it anyway. And still they charge the earth. Fair and transparent? I think not. Dodgy, legally? I think so. If not, it should be. Tip of the iceberg? I hope not, but there are always wheels within wheels and ulterior motives and this tells me that AutoTrader Group PLC are not ones to be trusted in the short, medium or long term. So I’m very, very suspicious of everything they do. I get that they are a PLC now and have to maximise their revenue. I also get that a lot of dealers don't really care and this issue doesn't affect everyone in the Trade at the moment - but I believe it will, eventually, as it is, as someone posted, the thin end of the wedge. A wedge that is slowly being driven into the heart of our industry I was going to write an open letter to AutoTrader is by way of a Public Complaint. But I’m not going to bother. No, they haven’t bought me off, but they’re too important to listen to critcism or pay any attention to those pointing out their obvious mistakes either. So it’ll just be a waste of time and effort. Instead, I’ve copied the following excerpts from various comments posted by various dealers on various forums this week on the subject (with great respect to and acknowledgement of the respective contributors and forum administrators) so you can gauge the depth of feeling for yourselves. They could do the honourable thing and admit they’d made a mistake, stop discriminating against those that disagree with them and their methods and arrange immediate and suitable compensation for those affected. Yeah, right. And Julie and Kevin will beat Skeletor in an arm wrestle too. Shocking, that's why I didn't opt out. The best is they will start to charge for it before long. I wonder if it breeches any contracts or laws? It is bang out of order but I suppose only to be expected by the increases in advertising revenue that they have been applying these last few years including removing the D/D discount. It will be interesting to see just how they respond to this shock that 168,563 vehicles disappear once the PX button has been chosen in search for those who have already said No to the tool during its so called Free Trial? They have not been open or transparent with this but now their cover has been blown wide open for all to know. Now I also find that even though I am paying for the ultimate all singing all dancing top paygo package my cars are not seen by most people as there is nowhere to say that we take px, no one told us this was happening it just happened, I wonder if I can have a refund because my cars are not seen by everyone and no one told me...Make no mistake this PX tool is laced with bad news and quiet honestly it seems they are shafting once again their trade customers. No other product from them has removed completely a companies entire used car stock from appearing in a search if they have declined the PX tool. And almost half the stock disappears from return after ticking that box! The Part Exchange check box may be tucked away on the Desktop version, but it is very prominent on the front page on the mobile site though. I would think that there are many people that would tick it in this case.To arbitrarily remove ads because we don't want one of their 'features' is extremely shady business practice in my view. wow i see what you mean…. this is typical of AT , im so quiet im thinking of doing other things, never been as quiet as before and i have cancelled my part ex trial as the prices were ridiculous, sadly what can we do though ?? they have us by the short and curlies, we all know they don’t listen and arent interested, thinking of just using eBay, so sad I don’t understands AT obsession with the part exchange value thing. Its a given that dealers take part exchanges so to advertise they don’t is purposely misleading customers. I understand that they want to offer px prices as it keeps customers on the AT site and just stops then quickly searching a car on AT, then the same search on ebay, motors etc etc but to force us dealers to pay for something that we don’t want, need or have any interest in just so our cars display is bang out of order!!! Surly the brains at AT can come up with something more useful to customers as well as dealers? If it has to be the px value let it be free and if dealers want to opt out they can do full in the knowledge that there cars won’t display in some results. The way they seem to be going about it just seems a bit shady.The jobs hard enough to make good money at the minute……. SO: We either will be paying A/T for the privilege of supplying customers with information that is potentially wrong, and could stand in the way of a deal, OR: we don’t pay for that, and then get excluded from searches full stop?Extortion sounds extreme, but I suspect the dictionary definition of that word does match what is going on. AT should be treating us with the upmost respect, not like dogs that need to be trained what to expect and do… Its outrageous ! I’m not surprised in the slightest, its what market leaders do and will continue to do The valuation tool is flawed It’s also discrimination, if you opt out you are segregated and if like me a trader club dealer (pay up front) you have no choice at all!! totally wrong Should it not be the other way around ‘DOES NOT ACCEPT PX’ and not charge us either. I get the impression AT don’t care about us smaller dealers and are only interested in the big companies,what does it matter to them if the independent forecourt that holds 20 cars doesn’t advertise with them anymore? its only £2200 per month they will be losing. Small change If its such a great product why have so few dealers bothered keeping it Autotrader? The number of vehicles being returned within the search when you tick and untick the box shows the stats. Totally agree. We cannot be held to ransom by AT. Sounds dramatic but that’s exactly what is happening.

I get that and I'm happy for you. I will be joining you away from the dark side as soon as conditions allow. But this is not just an in or out campaign. It has become a crusade to stop the power from corrupting those who cannot stop themselves. To ignore is to condone, in my book. More in the morning, as, judging by the official response from AT on their forum, there are probably going to be a few angry bunnies...

There have been recent revelations about you-know-who's (Clue: Greedy, arrogant, PLC Control Freaks) latest attempts to screw their subscribers (ie, CUSTOMERS) by denying visibility of ads, where the dealer refuses to allow their ridiculous part exchange 'valuations' to appear on those ads. If this is news to you, I suggest you find time to read some of the postings on their own forum, especially if you are one of their CUSTOMERS. And if you don't know who I'm writing about, where have you been? Anyway, I feel it is time for this extremely shady practice to be brought into the open. And publicly ridiculed. Sorry, discussed. And shown to be the snide, pernicious, grubby, money-grabbing arrogance that it really is. So. I've a feeling Ranty Friday is going to make a comeback this week, alongside another open letter to whoever is currently in charge at that impressive organisation. Unless, of course, the consensus is that I should just leave them to get on with it, unchecked. I'll let you decide.

*Bites tongue* ...do not get involved...... do not get involved...............

Sounds a bit like Argos to me. "Here's some pictures of all the stuff we sell, but we've hidden it all downstairs and you can't see it until you buy it" Should work a treat.

Trouble is, when it all goes tits up and the hidden fault on the car they bought manifests itself a week later, they come banging our door down demanding instant attention, loan cars, zero cost and then give us a crappy CSI score as a thankyou. And we have to just bend over and take it! Gotta love the Motor Trade. I think it's getting near the time when we should stop whining and start doing something. Phil?

Shouldn't be a problem soon - there's a fine (!) article in What Car telling Joe Public how to buy a car at auction, because that's where those nasty dealers buy their cars from and anyone can do it. They only sell them on to you for a vast profit, so you can 'cut out the middle man' buy buying from the auction direct. I sh*t you not. So that's where the VoucherCode lowballers will all be heading. Hooray! Here you go: buff.ly/1SruLtT

Why is it that nearly all of these 'enquiries' (separate debate about definition needed) end up going nowhere? It's got to the point where I don't even reply to the obvious timewasters any more; it's just not worth it. Remember the Golden Equation of Motor Retailing (and there are some of you out there who should pay attention here): Maximum Profit = Minimum Aggro The reverse of this is also sadly and painfully true.

Jeez! The pedantry genes in my head are exploding!!!! I need a lie down now...

OK, I'll ask: Still quite what?

Maybe an enormous inflatable middle finger to wave at their customers as they sail off into the sunset? And if anyone did actually think that they aren't just in it for the money, think again. They're clearly offloading as fast as they can before reality of the customer exodus dawns on the rest of the shareholders and the Market adjusts accordingly .

If I may add a couple of bobsworth... I struggled to understand the point of the article when I first read it (other than a bit of free PR for carsnip. And well done to them for that). So, Dealers are missing out on £14billion worth of sales through their websites.... Only they aren't, are they? Because those surveyed did actually buy vehicles. So the sales weren't 'lost'. So how do you work that out? And who buys through a website anyway? Generally, they buy from us. On-site. Face to face. Oh, nearly forgot... And customers lie. So, like other items I just heard on the news today - bit of a non-story, really innit?

As reported in Motor Trader today: RAC Cars is dropping its free to list advertising model for dealers for its online classified. It is joining the the Motors.co.uk network in May to join Parkers, Sunday Times Driving, Motoring.co.uk and Carsite on the motors.co.uk network. Dealers will be able to access both brands’ consumers via a single Motors.co.uk stock feed and pay a monthly tenancy fee. RAC launched its free advertising model with claims that it would become market leader by close of 2015 with 500,000 cars listed, overtaking Auto Trader. There are currently 327,500 cars listed on the website. RAC Motoring Services managing director Robert Diamond said the joining Motors would give RAC Cars a broader customer base. “We wanted to engage with the whole of the UK car buyers and not just RAC customers,” he told Motor Trader. Dealers will sign up to the Motors, co.uk website for the first 90 days free of charge and after that pay a monthly tenancy fee to appear on Motors and other sites. Diamond said the free RAC model had failed to raise enough money “It [The free model] worked in that lots of dealers signed up and out stock volumes increased significantly. What was trickier was it did not raise enough revenues to support pay per click advertising,” he said. Now, together, the two businesses’ combined advertised stock increases to over 400,000 cars from more than 8,000 dealers, with audiences of 4.2m across the Motors.co.uk Network. A new RAC Cars website will be launched in May, with enhanced functionality and an improved user journey. RAC Cars promoted itself as “the motorist’s champion” which had “waived the fees for both private sellers and dealers in response to demands for an alternative to existing used car websites that charge high advertising rates.” Phill Jones, managing director of Motors.co.uk, said: “In RAC Cars, we have a partner that shares our passion for becoming a trusted matchmaker for automotive buyers and sellers. “This is great news for both car dealers and prospective buyers. It will provide dealers with access to a larger audience of in-market car buyers through a single relationship, while consumers will benefit from a greater choice of vehicles and the reassurance of RAC’s compelling consumer products. It also underlines Cox Automotive’s ongoing investment in Motors.co.uk to be the trusted advertising partner to the automotive industry.” As has been mentioned elsewhere, this was pushed out to the Trade as Free. For Life. So what happened? Other than the usual, I suspect, bit of corporate greed, the truth lies within the article: >>Diamond said the free RAC model had failed to raise enough money; “It [The free model] worked in that lots of dealers signed up and our stock volumes increased significantly. What was trickier was it did not raise enough revenues to support pay per click advertising,”<< No sh*t, Sherlock. Give it away for free and then wonder why the cash isn't rolling in. Cracking business model, that. >>"It also underlines Cox Automotive’s ongoing investment in Motors.co.uk to be the trusted advertising partner to the automotive industry.”<< No it doesn't. RAC told us it was free, and soon it won't be. Nothing trustworthy there, is there?

Why does this crap always only happen to the sold ones, too?

Yeah, but I believe it's usually people with guns that kill people. Let's face it, the world is going to sh*t in a handcart and the silent majority (ie law-abiding, tax-paying, hard-working, normal people) are basically irrelevant. It ain't getting better any time soon. On a cheerier note, sold 2 today!!

...Interesting... I may not be shouting in the dark any more. Judging by the sentiments on here and other fora about our ever-increasing overheads and shady practices of the big boys, It seems that the time is approaching for the pendulum to swing back in our favour. It's not just AT though, is it (although they are MOST DEFINITELY on the list)? There's many a greedy, greedy rascal out there, for whom the day of reckoning should be nigh. Enough is enough. It is no longer sufficient or acceptable for the silent majority to stay silent. We are honest, hard-working people (mostly) who have spent many years and many pounds building our businesses on quality and integrity through the services we provide and we should expect the same in return. Those suppliers that see the Motor Trade as a cash cow to be exploited need to be educated. And stopped. Those 'customers' that see the Motor Trade as unpaid servants who provide unlimited expertise and knowledge to them for little more than a scrap of bread and a sack of abuse also need to be educated. And sent elsewhere. Those media luvvies that think we are all dodgy rogues from a 1980's (not very good) fictional TV series also need to be educated. About the definition of hypocrisy, for a start. It is quite clear that the peasants are revolting. This should be fun. And let's face it; we've not had much of that for a while, have we?

...is...