Is this the End ?

[umesh 336]

BAN on NEW petrol & Diesel cars from 2040 -

 Well this is the ' breaking News' but how real is this? 23 Years - Is that long enough -Will I still be here

Is it too long - Is it too little too late ?

Is the 'British' public behind this ?

Will they all change to EV, ?

How will this affect sales of used diesel - petrol cars ?

Thoughts ?

[trade vet 704]

This a smoke screen headline before the upcoming  older diesel car  scrappage scheme announcement.In 2040,where is all the lithium for the batteries coming from,we will not be able to generate the power to charge them.Are EVs safe,sitting on top of 300 batteries in a Tesla may be a health issue ! 50% of new cars could be hybrids by then,but think of the loss of tax revenue alone.Diesels,ex lease diesels should get a lot cheaper and if the punters can get a newer and cheaper diesel,they will buy them.In 74,the trade values on cars over 2 litres collapsed because of the quadrupling of oil prices and that no one would finance them.Result,punters could buy a 3 year old Jag or Rover for the price of a Cortina.( Translated today,that is a newer BMW or an Audi for the price of a Focus ! However trade values stabilised after 6 months and things returned to normal.Next 6 months could be good news for traders buying big stuff!

[BHM 994]

True. Remember about 12 years ago when for a few months you couldn't raffle a big 4x4 & the only place that'd accept one of Land Rover's products were a Land Rover dealer? I can't afford any of their products now!

It's all scare mongering at the moment & as vehicles evolve & the market place will follow suit based upon supply & demand, just as any market does throughout history & the world.

Believe me, if the arse temporarily falls out of diesel car prices I assure you there are plenty of skint punters who will be more than happy to hoover up some cheap, good mpg, shite in the short term.

[bestprice4cash 20]

23 years is long enough that the politicians making this promise will be long since retired / dead. 

 

 

[Mojo121 229]

Oh no, Umesh, it's the other way round; it's only the beginning.

When new cars are banned existing used petrol and diesel cars will become sought after, prices will rise, because of the shortage people will properly maintain their cars so they last, people won't haggle on price because decent used cars are harder to find, mechanics will do a decent job as they'll appreciate the final years they can make some money in their profession, dealers will be respected, margins will increase as supply drops... and pigs will fly 

The whole thing is a load of bollocks. I'm sick of this shambles of a government.

[have a word with the wife 299]

were all doomed, doomed i tell yer 

[whitestone679231 113]

The country cant cope with the electric surge at the end of Coronation Street when everyone puts the kettle on,,, how will they cope at 5pm when everyone plugs their cars in??

another ill thought scaremongering govt release, these people really do need to get in the real world and earn a living

And wait till they realise that sitting on a pile of batteries causes some form of cancer....

[metcars 397]

Is this a "worldwide" ban?

[BHM 994]

Coal fired power stations are all closing down, the government is virtually getting held to ransom over minimum electricity price guarantees for a couple of new nuclear power stations & there are already concerns about meeting current peak usage. Imaging with millions of electric cars, vans, buses & wagons (assuming they'll follow suit) adding to the electricity demand - there'll be plenty of vehicles but we'll be sat with candles in the house playing a board game, warming one room in your home with foraged wood in the Aga - it'll be like Georgian England except with an electric vehicle on the drive.

[Stephen 21]

Won't happen government rely far to much on the road tax, fuel tax and offshore taxes for oil to just stop from 2040. Plus there will b another 5/6 useless governments in changing it well before, although I'm sure that hybrid, electric will no doubt their increase sales 

[Mistermuttley 19]

Iv'e got a Nissan Leaf and to be fair the range is woeful. But everything else about the car is amazing, 1 gear, limo quietness and loaded with spec. The only thing stopping electric cars from taking over is the range of them and the cost. Range is going up as the new Zoe has around 180-200 miles range now.The Model 3 will have well over 200 miles range in its cheapest form which is priced on par with an equivalent BMW (elon musk has said the 3 series was always his target car to compare to).

The cost of them though , for what they are currently though is just too expensive and this is deliberate on Nissan ,renault,bmw's etc part because they don't really want to sell them in volume as it would cannibalize sales of their real money generators, the petrol/diesel models. I honestly think once manufacturers really start to compete with each other on their electric cars including price then we will see a quick shift over to electric cars.

There is a vast amount of lithium in the ground and supply of this wont be a problem. The electric power to feed all the cars though might be. Hopefully we will move to solar with battery storage in homes which would ease the Grid supply but without government initiative/support that may never happen.

Im not an eco warrior and loved my civic type r before the nissan but after driving both i can see where the future is.

[metcars 397]

Two things I've noticed, one is that early Prius have NOT aged well. Second is that all of these hybrid vehicles seem to be 'cabbed/uber'd' which will make getting good used ones a challenge

[Cornish Guy 45]

3 hours ago, Mistermuttley said:

There is a vast amount of lithium in the ground and supply of this wont be a problem.

Lithium is used in the anode, and the % used in a battery is about 10%.

It's about the Nickel, Cobalt, Manganese and Aluminium. Combinations of these elements are also used, primarily Nickel! It's about getting the ratios right for power, whilst sustaining stability. Get the ratios and technology wrong and the battery catches fire! 

Sounds familiar? Samsung got it very wrong!

 

[trade vet 704]

5 hours ago, Mistermuttley said:

Iv'e got a Nissan Leaf and to be fair the range is woeful. But everything else about the car is amazing, 1 gear, limo quietness and loaded with spec. The only thing stopping electric cars from taking over is the range of them and the cost. Range is going up as the new Zoe has around 180-200 miles range now.The Model 3 will have well over 200 miles range in its cheapest form which is priced on par with an equivalent BMW (elon musk has said the 3 series was always his target car to compare to).

The cost of them though , for what they are currently though is just too expensive and this is deliberate on Nissan ,renault,bmw's etc part because they don't really want to sell them in volume as it would cannibalize sales of their real money generators, the petrol/diesel models. I honestly think once manufacturers really start to compete with each other on their electric cars including price then we will see a quick shift over to electric cars.

There is a vast amount of lithium in the ground and supply of this wont be a problem. The electric power to feed all the cars though might be. Hopefully we will move to solar with battery storage in homes which would ease the Grid supply but without government initiative/support that may never happen.

Im not an eco warrior and loved my civic type r before the nissan but after driving both i can see where the future is.

So Nissan Leaf is the future....I thought they were only bought by PC left wing councils or by those companies that do business with the public sector as a PR tool and for the tax breaks as the cars are crap. So,from what you say,you appear to have invested £30k in a car that will be worth £10k in 3 years,does not go very far,has no street cred and will not impress your neighbours.Most of the punters in the real world would far rather buy a 90k 3 year old diesel BMW sport or Audi S line for £10k and be proud to be seen.Also,the energy needed to mine the lithium,transport it,manufacture the batteries and to recharge them etc makes no sense to me as being eco friendly !

[have a word with the wife 299]

British Gas will increase electricity prices by 12.5% from 15 September, its owner Centrica has said, in a move that will affect 3.1 million customers.

[Mistermuttley 19]

On 8/1/2017 at 3:07 PM, trade vet said:

So Nissan Leaf is the future....I thought they were only bought by PC left wing councils or by those companies that do business with the public sector as a PR tool and for the tax breaks as the cars are crap. So,from what you say,you appear to have invested £30k in a car that will be worth £10k in 3 years,does not go very far,has no street cred and will not impress your neighbours.Most of the punters in the real world would far rather buy a 90k 3 year old diesel BMW sport or Audi S line for £10k and be proud to be seen.Also,the energy needed to mine the lithium,transport it,manufacture the batteries and to recharge them etc makes no sense to me as being eco friendly !

Yes the styling looks like a dogs dinner, and yes the range is admittedly poor. But the rest of the car is great. Have you driven any electric car yet?  Don't care about street cred or the neighbours, people that buy bmw's and audi's do. Happy the punters buy them though as that keeps everyone in business. Bought used for £7500 and its probably worth about 6k now. running costs are nothing as is the fuel. Yes their are lots of costs with lithium mining etc , but then look at the costs and complexity of petrol/diesel drivetrains. The energy required to refine and ship crude oil around the world and then burn it up is immense. With lithium batteries they can be recycled at the end of their useful life. With a battery car you just keep charging the 'tank'. Not all but some of the electric will be renewable and that amount is increasing year on year. 

[grant8064 219]

So how about a Leaf as a used car purchase?

One of the ones with the fully paid for battery?

I've been considering one for commuting as the range wouldn't be an issue and I can charge it at work during the day. Our local rooms have quite a few 13/14 plates for around 5k with a paid for battery.

I don't really know much about them and haven't investigated it properly but your thoughts guys?

[trade vet 704]

52 minutes ago, Mistermuttley said:

Yes the styling looks like a dogs dinner, and yes the range is admittedly poor. But the rest of the car is great. Have you driven any electric car yet?  Don't care about street cred or the neighbours, people that buy bmw's and audi's do. Happy the punters buy them though as that keeps everyone in business. Bought used for £7500 and its probably worth about 6k now. running costs are nothing as is the fuel. Yes their are lots of costs with lithium mining etc , but then look at the costs and complexity of petrol/diesel drivetrains. The energy required to refine and ship crude oil around the world and then burn it up is immense. With lithium batteries they can be recycled at the end of their useful life. With a battery car you just keep charging the 'tank'. Not all but some of the electric will be renewable and that amount is increasing year on year. 

Hi,I am pleased you have bought a cheap one.No,I have not driven,bought or sold one,we would not know how to fix one.As to no running costs,I thought you had either  to lease the batteries for £100 per month or buy them for £5000.What happens to EV's if Tesla implodes.Tesla has a stock market value more than Ford .They are expensive,have huge sales and even after creative accounting,they still do not make a profit.They have 500 thousand orders for Tesla 3 and $670m in 3 week returnable deposits.However,they are taking 1800 deposits per day but punters cancelling orders are apparently waiting over 3 months........Shades of Bernie Madoff

[metcars 397]

4 hours ago, grant8064 said:

So how about a Leaf as a used car purchase?

One of the ones with the fully paid for battery?

I've been considering one for commuting as the range wouldn't be an issue and I can charge it at work during the day. Our local rooms have quite a few 13/14 plates for around 5k with a paid for battery.

I don't really know much about them and haven't investigated it properly but your thoughts guys?

I've mentioned this before but so many of these hybrid vehicles are used to death and/or used for cabbing. I think it's going to be a difficult market to find good ones with life left in them

[grant8064 219]

22 minutes ago, metcars said:

I've mentioned this before but so many of these hybrid vehicles are used to death and/or used for cabbing. I think it's going to be a difficult market to find good ones with life left in them

Thanks for the reply...it's more of an idea at the moment but on paper it would suit my lifestyle pretty well.

The ones I was considering are circa 40k 13/14 plates. 

Just wondered what peoples opinions on them are as it's not something we ever stock on the forecourt.

I'm not really interested in driving dynamics or it looking flashy...more a case of will it start in the morning and is the cabin build quality half decent?

[trade vet 704]

1 hour ago, tradex said:

Some points I thought of..

1/ I can't see them working in my house, the wife's phone is always flat and she first owned a phone in 1995, still can't be trusted to charge it up at night

2/ Without saying too much of my previous job in automotive OE RnD (ohh lots of buzz letters there) when the EPA had some EV's on trial from GM (even more!) one of the biggest gripes wasn't range, but all things parking, yes really.

You wouldn't believe how lazy people are, they will drive around for 5 mins to get a parking sport nearer the supermarket entrance/cashpoint/'offy/cinema etc....it's just human nature. Now with a EV you have to put the car in the same place for charging and it may not be uber convenient...sounds crazy I know.

3/ Have the insurance companies now got to grips with home charging points on high amp' bettery installations? Most US companies were very nervous (means cost) so most home owners weren't informing their insurance provider...this was a few years back now, so could be old news.

4/ How much does it cost in electricity to charge the battery from empty to full to use a petrol phrase on a leaf?

overnight price and peak price

I think the figure of £3 is/was used for the overnight rate....be interesting to see how that compares with fossil fuel as it would charge regardless if used or not even on trickle.

Your range I guess must be lower than the max' range in theory, as you need to anticipate traffic congestion et al and not wanting to get close to the max range so one would tend to go short.

A lady in my village owns one so I should really ask her how she is getting on with it, she bought a Clio for her daughter from us.

I believe the Class Action on the Leaf range has now been settled and they paid out?

That's excellent,the bottom line is they are not yet punter friendly.Does anyone no anybody who has retailed one yet.I see the successfull California class action was based on misleading performance claims not being based on worldwide climatic conditions which you probably don't get in Makemland...er sorry...Sunderland !

[Mojo121 229]

I'm sorry but electric cars are just soulless. A customer took me for a spin in his Leaf and while admittedly I'm impressed with the performance, handing and overall drive it's as exciting as an all you can eat buffet to an anorexic. 

"errr, but, errm, aren't you aware of the benefit in kind benefits of the, errr, electric, errr, only one component, errrr, one gear, simplied, errr reduced tax......"

"sorry mate I think my phone's ringing"

[Scooby who 41]

 

I do wonder about electric cars.

I remember as a teenager enjoying the trill of driving an XR3i for the first time, the performance ( or so I thought at the time) the purr from it as you drove it on. What will the youth of tomorrow have to look forward to? 

Battery technology will need to improve 10 fold in the years ahead, is that even possible? All fine for manufacturers to brag about the 200 mile range their car offers but what happens when the battery ages. Will your car end up like your phone, battery getting a false memory and charging up fully in no time, only for it to go from 30% to 2% in a matter of minutes and you left stranded on the motorway. 

The range needs to be in the hundreds of miles for it to become mainstream, otherwise driving will be just too stressful, constantly monitoring your battery power, turning off the heater/light/stereo etc to conserve power, especially on a winters evening.

I don't see the change coming as quick as we may think. Who in their right mind would want to swap a 140 bhp diesel for a new Zoe or whatever.  Sue as hell not me!!

I always wonder why Hydrogen cars never got developed. I believe the oil companies had something to do with it NOT getting anywhere.

It makes so much more sense that electric, firstly the world will never run out of water, secondly it's pretty simple to put a electrical charge through water and extract the hydrogen. It know it's probably down to safety but surely the gas can be stored safely somehow, somewhere in the car. Preformance would not suffer and mechanics would still be in a job.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Scooby who

[metcars 397]

1 hour ago, Scooby who said:

I always wonder why Hydrogen cars never got developed. I believe the oil companies had something to do with it NOT getting anywhere.

Gas powered cars worked fine during WWII and yes I would imagine the oil campanies have a lot to do with other technologies lack of developemnt. Probably the solution to the worlds energy crisis is locked in the safe of Mr Oil executive?

[GreenGiant 287]

On 04/08/2017 at 4:29 PM, tradex said:

EV technology is one tough cookie to crack, but it's good to see it's current awareness.

I see what you did there. ;-)