AUCTION PRICES / EYE WATERING?

[have a word with the wife 299]

As already said, these loans have not just gone to car dealers, butcher's bakers and candlestick makers have all jumped on the bandwagon though questionable they got the full 50k as its 25 per cent of turnover, so car dealers can be feeding these people ?

 

[Lakeside 94]

We’ll just have to see how things are in a few weeks. It’s ok filling yourself with overpriced stock but if the public aren’t buying they’ll be collecting dust.

[Contracts 68]

22 hours ago, MrC said:

I'm trying to source a few Transporters for customers, prices are through the roof at the moment, I'm cringing and wincing. 

 Decent vans have gone mental.  Are the Transporters you need anything special? 

[MrC 142]

51 minutes ago, Contracts said:

 Decent vans have gone mental.  Are the Transporters you need anything special? 

Looking for LWB Highline Panel van DSG with a tailgate. And a second LWB Highline PV for customers. And I'm looking for two SWB Highlines for myself. Prices and demand has gone silly

[Halfpenny 114]

We're in what is known as an irrational market. Buyers with government money burning a hole in their pocket, limited supply of vehicles and online auctions. This will lead to a lot of dealers making bad decisions that come back to bite them. The indications are for a big rise in unemployment and reduced annual mileage (more working at home, cycling etc).  That doesn't sound like a market that's going to sustain higher prices.  Its going to kick off when the furlough money stops.

[Paul C 75]

Temporary: supply is down (a lot), demand is up (due to built-up demand)  --> prices rise

Long term: demand will pass thru normal then be down (a bit, or a lot, depending on how the recession pans out); supply will either match demand or go up --> prices fall

Its getting to the point, it might actually make financial sense for dealers to put their cars BACK into auction, because they'll make more now at auction, than their current or future retail value. It is indeed irrational at the moment.

[CCC 31]

9 hours ago, have a word with the wife said:

As already said, these loans have not just gone to car dealers, butcher's bakers and candlestick makers have all jumped on the bandwagon though questionable they got the full 50k as its 25 per cent of turnover, so car dealers can be feeding these people ?

 

This. 25% of turnover for most small businesses who qualified for BBL’s wasn’t £50k. Though I know a few one man bands who’ve taken them and been looking for a new sports car. 

[Mojo121 229]

15 hours ago, Padstar said:

Yes will see what they are like and report back. I’m fully expecting that most if not all will have issues. It will be a nice surprise if i get a couple without issues at least. I used to buy quite a bit off dealer auction before that went through the roof too. Surely used car prices will have to go up because god knows how anyone is making decent profit looking at what cars are going for. £1ks over cap clean! (Or have BCA got a good little system that when 10 people press bid at the same time it shoots the price up even if they all bid at the same price?) 

Also looking forward to hearing about this, a friend has had some turned up - grade 2-3 and look like bad grade 4/5

10 hours ago, Paul C said:

Temporary: supply is down (a lot), demand is up (due to built-up demand)  --> prices rise

Long term: demand will pass thru normal then be down (a bit, or a lot, depending on how the recession pans out); supply will either match demand or go up --> prices fall

Its getting to the point, it might actually make financial sense for dealers to put their cars BACK into auction, because they'll make more now at auction, than their current or future retail value. It is indeed irrational at the moment.

I wish. Problem is they go in a multi vendor or similar and everyone assumes they’re fucked.

Even asked the auction to BCA assure my cars once, guess what? Never heard back.

[Contracts 68]

20 hours ago, MrC said:

Looking for LWB Highline Panel van DSG with a tailgate. And a second LWB Highline PV for customers. And I'm looking for two SWB Highlines for myself. Prices and demand has gone silly

Have a couple of 19/19 Startlines due back but basic engine and white with barn doors so pretty much the opposite of what you want.

Will pm you if anything nice pops up.

[MrC 142]

2 hours ago, Contracts said:

Have a couple of 19/19 Startlines due back but basic engine and white with barn doors so pretty much the opposite of what you want.

Will pm you if anything nice pops up.

Thanks, I'm always looking for Transporters of varying specs and prices.  I think Im going to go for new or Pre reg T6.1's as the deals are pretty good especially looking at the price of used

[Highlinev8 28]

11 hours ago, Contracts said:

Have a couple of 19/19 Startlines due back but basic engine and white with barn doors so pretty much the opposite of what you want.

Will pm you if anything nice pops up.

Looking for L4 H3 Transits. Also would buy Crafters or Sprinters. Must be very clean. PM me stuff or send me a list please.

I'm thinking on top of the free money floating about, BCA have been trying to get all their account holders switched over to buy online. I'm an account holder a long time and I remember it used to be difficult to get a live online login. Sounds like anyone with a Blue card is on it now. 

[Lakeside 94]

8 hours ago, Highlinev8 said:

 

I'm thinking on top of the free money floating about, BCA have been trying to get all their account holders switched over to buy online. I'm an account holder a long time and I remember it used to be difficult to get a live online login. Sounds like anyone with a Blue card is on it now. 

They probably haven’t had a choice but to offer online bidding to everyone at the min.

With them being closed to physical auction they’ll be losing all custom from the part time dealers selling a couple month and only have a blue/silver card.

[awc1000 93]

1 hour ago, Lakeside said:

They probably haven’t had a choice but to offer online bidding to everyone at the min.

With them being closed to physical auction they’ll be losing all custom from the part time dealers selling a couple month and only have a blue/silver card.

likely as discussed dropped their guard and letting anyone bid online?, private's too, don't forget they earn more indemnity out of these folks, and auctions just as aware as us that cheap government money is waiting to be spent in the way of grant money, regards the up to £50k at 2% its certainly not idiots borrowing it, you have to be good for the loan, and plenty of retailers have taken it to wean themselves off stocking loans, its simply cheaper, of course the outcome of this is everyone else can expect bigger indemnity's soon as the auction stocking loan profits will go awol.

cars were always going to be dear post lock down, the clear lack of units wouldn't have even served a low demand let alone the current one.,it will calm down though come august / september, too many things going on for it not too.

there have been some cheap cars about in the last week but as usual in sectors where its risky, everything else as you know is daft money, i've never seen anything like this before in the way of prices, you can stimulate a market with government money, but you can also cook it, it's looking well cooked, too much influx money too soon has fooked this job in the short term.

[Mojo121 229]

1 hour ago, awc1000 said:

likely as discussed dropped their guard and letting anyone bid online?, private's too, don't forget they earn more indemnity out of these folks, and auctions just as aware as us that cheap government money is waiting to be spent in the way of grant money, regards the up to £50k at 2% its certainly not idiots borrowing it, you have to be good for the loan, and plenty of retailers have taken it to wean themselves off stocking loans, its simply cheaper, of course the outcome of this is everyone else can expect bigger indemnity's soon as the auction stocking loan profits will go awol.

cars were always going to be dear post lock down, the clear lack of units wouldn't have even served a low demand let alone the current one.,it will calm down though come august / september, too many things going on for it not too.

there have been some cheap cars about in the last week but as usual in sectors where its risky, everything else as you know is daft money, i've never seen anything like this before in the way of prices, you can stimulate a market with government money, but you can also cook it, it's looking well cooked, too much influx money too soon has fooked this job in the short term.

I liked the overall jist of your post and it's made me think of a few bits:.

- The 50k BBL is very much a self cert affair, what do you turnover and when would you like the money are essentially the qualifying criteria.

- While the car auction craziness may end by Aug-Sep the effects of mass redundancies, reduced spending and the inevitable inflation caused from the dishing out of 'stimulus' money haven't been felt yet. So, although we will almost definitely see a CAP price increase now we run the risk later of a massive contraction as demand dries up. Dangerous game to play. 

- When you attempt to stimulate a market with the kind of hand-outs we've seen (specifically rate relief grants and furlough money) you devalue the currency already in circulation by "printing" more (it's more adding 000's on a computer screen rather than printing). This leads to a rise in the price of goods and services because you need more of the devalued asset to exchange for the thing you want. If you've stimulated a market properly the new "money" will be spent. In the market/ world we're in right now with huge uncertainty (second wave question mark and socio-economic problems globally) I think it's unlikely to see businesses or consumers being frivolous (more a batten down the hatches mentality?). To make matters worse, many who have received this money haven't had it in addition to what they would have had, they've had it in replacement of, so it's been spent in the normal way i.e. all we have is more currency in the system, and the big boys who were allowed to trade earlier than the rest of us or by nature of their business to trade throughout (amazon etc) have likely hoovered up what luxury or recreational spending of that "new money" occurred... and they'll do their best to spend as little as possible of it here!

[XDR 15]

20 minutes ago, Mojo121 said:

I liked the overall jist of your post and it's made me think of a few bits:.

- The 50k BBL is very much a self cert affair, what do you turnover and when would you like the money are essentially the qualifying criteria.

- While the car auction craziness may end by Aug-Sep the effects of mass redundancies, reduced spending and the inevitable inflation caused from the dishing out of 'stimulus' money haven't been felt yet. So, although we will almost definitely see a CAP price increase now we run the risk later of a massive contraction as demand dries up. Dangerous game to play. 

- When you attempt to stimulate a market with the kind of hand-outs we've seen (specifically rate relief grants and furlough money) you devalue the currency already in circulation by "printing" more (it's more adding 000's on a computer screen rather than printing). This leads to a rise in the price of goods and services because you need more of the devalued asset to exchange for the thing you want. If you've stimulated a market properly the new "money" will be spent. In the market/ world we're in right now with huge uncertainty (second wave question mark and socio-economic problems globally) I think it's unlikely to see businesses or consumers being frivolous (more a batten down the hatches mentality?). To make matters worse, many who have received this money haven't had it in addition to what they would have had, they've had it in replacement of, so it's been spent in the normal way i.e. all we have is more currency in the system, and the big boys who were allowed to trade earlier than the rest of us or by nature of their business to trade throughout (amazon etc) have likely hoovered up what luxury or recreational spending of that "new money" occurred... and they'll do their best to spend as little as possible of it here!

Spot on Sir! You ever though about getting a job in the parliament? - Well said!

I think people are adopting the mentality of “its borrowed money” and are taking higher risks,

Don’t think they’ve read the T&C’s of the BB loan.
 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by XDR

[awc1000 93]

1 hour ago, XDR said:

Spot on Sir! You ever though about getting a job in the parliament? - Well said!

I think people are adopting the mentality of “its borrowed money” and are taking higher risks,

Don’t think they’ve read the T&C’s of the BB loan.
 

 

Its cheap money no matter which way you look at it, for some time now banks have been cautious to lend to the motor trade, even no longer being keen on overdrafts which kept many a trader and indy retailer afloat, much talk by some that its going to "idiots" is wide of the mark, the real angle here is if you already have overdrafts / stocking loans then you would be an idiot not to change and take this offer to at least partially reduce other loan costs.

the banks hate the motor trade - high risk for big outlays and little returns, the government love us and are no doubt happy to fund us when we are giving them big chunks back in the form of vat and tax, they cant loose, or at least think the math is in their favour?

i think its great how indy retailers can now march into banks and take decent loan amounts that the banks would have possibly previously refused, at 2.5% and nothing to pay for 12 months, you can even port over any other higher interest rate loan previously taken before this scheme was launched up to november.

yes of course there are going to be a few tossers who buy a £40k car and £10k watch, but that senario generates possibly £5-8K in vat levy anyway! 

 

[Rory RSC 596]

Imagine being a private and so stupid to think you are getting a better deal at BCA than just walking into a dealer and buying. My fees are bad enough on platinum the private ones are horrendous.

I've never bought more cars privately / trade to trade facebook the amount of money ive saved in fees is unbeliavable. For every ten cars its about £4k  its a lot of money saved.

[Mojo121 229]

12 hours ago, XDR said:

Spot on Sir! You ever though about getting a job in the parliament? - Well said!

I think people are adopting the mentality of “its borrowed money” and are taking higher risks,

Don’t think they’ve read the T&C’s of the BB loan.
 

 

I don’t think many would vote ex used car dealer 

[Frank Cannon 812]

2 hours ago, Mojo121 said:

I don’t think many would vote ex used car dealer 

My word is my bond, an MP with scruples like that won't last long

[XDR 15]

4 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

Imagine being a private and so stupid to think you are getting a better deal at BCA than just walking into a dealer and buying. My fees are bad enough on platinum the private ones are horrendous.

I've never bought more cars privately / trade to trade facebook the amount of money ive saved in fees is unbeliavable. For every ten cars its about £4k  its a lot of money saved.

Seen this happen one to many times.

About a year ago, my builder who was doing my extension knew I was in the motor trade, but didn’t utilise me (I was going to charge him a small sourcing fee).

Instead thought he’d cut the middle man out as he believed he had the “experience”.

Not only did he get shafted on fees, but also the car needed mechanical prep.

 

by the time he was done, it owed him near enough retail - but no 6 month warranty to claw back on.

I had no sympathy at all as it serves him right! Leave it to the professionals.

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by XDR

[New year revolutions...... 197]

1 minute ago, XDR said:

Seen this happen one to many times.

my builder, who was doing my extension knew I was in the motor trade, but didn’t utilise me (I was going to charge him a small sourcing fee).

Instead thought he’d cut the middle man out as he believed he had the experience.

Not only did he get shafted on fees, but also the car needed mechanical prep.

 

by the time he was done, it owed him near enough retail - but no 6 month warranty to claw back on.

Serves him right! 

 

this

they used to do this to me after the event and ask me to wave a magic wand on it for them

i stopped doing this a long time ago

[XDR 15]

6 minutes ago, New year revolutions...... said:

this

they used to do this to me after the event and ask me to wave a magic wand on it for them

i stopped doing this a long time ago

I’ve learnt the hard way myself (mainly close family).

They want a specific spec, mileage etc. Before I’d say “sure no problem”, i’d bid on the car without no security as it’s family.

Now whether it’s a loyal customer, family or my staff. The rule is prior to auction put down a 25% deposit on the car. 

If we don’t get it, a full refund back. If they wobble and don’t buy it after we’ve won it - thanks for the cheap car!  

Edited June 18, 2020 by XDR

[CCC 31]

On 6/18/2020 at 9:44 AM, Mojo121 said:

I don’t think many would vote ex used car dealer 

We’ve got a journalist as PM. Anything is possible.

car dealers understand the basics of business.....

[craigpughcars 13]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:56 PM, MrC said:

Looking for LWB Highline Panel van DSG with a tailgate. And a second LWB Highline PV for customers. And I'm looking for two SWB Highlines for myself. Prices and demand has gone silly

Saw a Transit custom went for £4500 over at bca , only knows what extra VW's will go for then 

 

[Padstar 0]

On 6/15/2020 at 8:24 PM, Padstar said:

Yes will see what they are like and report back. I’m fully expecting that most if not all will have issues. It will be a nice surprise if i get a couple without issues at least. I used to buy quite a bit off dealer auction before that went through the roof too. Surely used car prices will have to go up because god knows how anyone is making decent profit looking at what cars are going for. £1ks over cap clean! (Or have BCA got a good little system that when 10 people press bid at the same time it shoots the price up even if they all bid at the same price?) 

Quick update on the cars, I think we’ve been quite lucky in the fact that there has been no major issues. Out of the 10 cars 1 has got a flywheel rattle and an Audi has slightly heavy steering which has passed an mot but I’m getting checked out anyway. A couple have been sold already which is nice. A couple of the cars have had paint before but not bad at all. Would we have bought those cars if we were at the physical auction? Probably not. Would we have payed what we have to get them? Definitely not but it seems the times we are in needs must. The retail price on autotrader for the Focus estate we sold was £1650. We advertised it for £1995 to take a chance as we’d given good money and was a real clean thing and we got £1995. Maybe the price of used cars will have to go up to coincide with demand. 
We tried to bid on an Alpha 159 estate booked at £2500, it went for over £5k, who the hell is bidding that!! I suppose you have to keep trying and give what you feel is reasonable. It’s tough though!