Ten Year Old Vehicle Main Dealer Health Check

[BHM 994]

Strange cos XC90 buyers are normally the most sensible/realistic out there.

 

[Tony F 38]

Hi All

I think most of us that have been around a while have been through similar situations many times--and it can be tough one to swerve round sometimes, especially when you know its a decent car. It causes unwanted stress on top of an already stressful job, especially in these days of reviews. We have a disclaimer within our t&cs that reads 'PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ALL PARTS AND MECHANICAL ITEMS OF THIS VEHICLE ARE WORN RELATIVE TO ITS MILEAGE AND AGE AND WILL REQUIRE ONGOING ROUTINE MAINTENANCE ACCORDINGLY'.  In other words, Used car=Used parts

On the flip side ( and a very shortened version of events) we had a screamer bout a year ago who cooked and put a rod/piston out on his engine on a £12k c180 estate after 4 months & 3900 miles. (lack of coolant we think). He was adamant we were liable quoting the 6 months consumer law, court & £7.5k for a new engine etc etc. He also mentioned the car had been through a health check at mercedes the previous month, which he emailed us a copy amongst the numerous emails and letters. This proved to be his undoing, as the health check had given the car a 100% completely clean bill of health with no faults present. We gently explained that based on his own report from mercedes, the fault could not have been present at the point of sale, and maybe he should check his levels more regularly. We never heard back from him again.

 

[SC Derby 259]

You must fight against the health check.

Two examples - 

Vectra about 6 years ago, customer got home from collection and phoned saying Air Con not working. We agreed them to nip it back but instead they booked it in at Main Dealer....told them pump and condenser knackered and wanted to bill us £1100. I said no way that's crazy. Eventually after endless phone calls got it back and into local specialist. 1 £37 re=gas later system was up and running fine with no leaks or anything. Crazy.

V50 last year sold down south to the coast. Guy took it into Volvo and they said it needed £3,700 to make it good. Car had only done 45,000 approx and drove lovely. I could not convince this guy at all so in the end I gave in, went myself to collect it and drove it back to Derby 3 hours, MOT'd it next day.....passed with flying colours except for a very slightly cracked coil spring. Sold again  3 days later and the customer that bought it has since left us a glowing 5* review and his brother has had another one from us too!

Can't give in to the main dealers, certainly never pay them. Daylight robbery.

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

And we are looked on as the bad guys, we are saints compared to main dealers

[Tony F 38]

21 hours ago, grant8064 said:

I'm not deliberately trying to be a c**t btw, celebrated my birthday today with two refunds and three warranty claims, we all get 'em

 

Many happy 'returns' of the day Grant (not) :>)

We usually average out 1 refund a year. This year its 1 a month. sign of the times mate

[metcars 397]

I'm guessing it's too late for a 'follow up' phone call to see if they're happy with their purchase

[grant8064 219]

1 hour ago, Tony F said:

Many happy 'returns' of the day Grant (not) :>)

We usually average out 1 refund a year. This year its 1 a month. sign of the times mate

It's definitely getting worse with all the google lawyers! 

Both of this weeks ones were justified but it's been an upward trend over the last 12 months for us. Less warranty claims though so we're doing something right I guess. 

[Dealer 54]

For those of you who recall/contributed to this thread some time ago, the day of reckoning is finally here. 

The customer went ahead and issued court proceedings despite me changing some items on the car that didn't warrant doing such as the tyre, check strap, rack end etc. Either way I was never going to be able to keep this person happy. 

Today is my day in county court and I'm not at all confident having read others experiences on here since I first posted this. The whole episode has undoubtedly got to me and in the future with consumer laws etc it's only going to get worse. I have thought long and hard about jacking it all in if I'm honest. Be back later with the verdict. 

[CRW 73]

So after dealing with him face to face when you did some repairs he still wants to screw you over? Nice guy. Fingers crossed for you bud.

[XFS 70]

Buyer Declaration.

I have inspected and driven the car. I am satisfied with its overall condition and have accepted any wear and tear to the bodywork, interior, mechanical and electrical components as commensurate with the age, mileage and previous use of the car.

Seller Declaration.

I certify that the car is delivered in a safe and roadworthy condition and complies with current motor vehicle construction and use regulations and at the time of sale would pass or has passed the current MOT test.

Your statutory rights etc, etc, etc

As part of my PDI I always MOT a car or if its been MOT,d recently, have it pre- MOT'd by a certified MOT tester.

On 3/18/2019 at 10:59 PM, have a word with the wife said:

235/60/18 103 V New: Continental 235/60/18 103 V

Cost £60.00

Wheel Alignment Recommend full 4 wheel alignment.

Cost £104.16

Glass/Mirrors/Door Locks offside front door strap broken

Cost £650.40

Water/Oil/Fluid Leaks Radiator leaking

Cost £601.20

Power Steering Fluid Power steering pump leaking

Cost £15.48

Mandatory Lights Rear (external) nearside rear upper/inner sidelight bulb blown

Cost £285.60

Front Suspension play in offside inner steering rack arm

Cost £251.28

Front Suspension O/S/F lower arm bushes worn N/S/F lower arm bushes worn

Cost £89.52

Miscellaneous front gearbox stabilizer deteriorated

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

get the name of the person who did this check, ask for him to ring you with about impending court case, advise him that you will ask the court for him to appear to substantiate this claim, advise him his best course of action is for the company he works for that the safety check picked out items that were consistent with the cars age and mileage, remind him the car has recently passed a mot and ask what his qualifications are, if "reception" wont put you through, tell them you are coming down with recording equipment unless they contact you in 24 hours with a explanation as to why, as a example they want £600+ for a power steering pump that is merely damp not leaking after 150k+ miles, you want the company to say that this check had picked out items consistent with the age and mileage of the vehicle .

That is exactly what I would do. 

Its pretty obvious a "free" health check is is close to a scam as you can get without actually being a scam. As part of my court submission I would also want to know how many cars over 5 years old have had a clean bill of health and what the average cost to rectify "faults" found in a "free" health check are per vehicle.

[CRW 73]

11 minutes ago, XFS said:

Buyer Declaration.

I have inspected and driven the car. I am satisfied with its overall condition and have accepted any wear and tear to the bodywork, interior, mechanical and electrical components as commensurate with the age, mileage and previous use of the car.

Seller Declaration.

I certify that the car is delivered in a safe and roadworthy condition and complies with current motor vehicle construction and use regulations and at the time of sale would pass or has passed the current MOT test.

I like this, but would it work or stand up in court, when the cheerful, willing to sign anything customer turns into the psychopath and takes you to court? Wouldn't they just say they have no mechanical knowledge thus putting the onus back on us? To be fair, it cant do any harm to get them to sign something regarding wear and tear. Might stop them even considering pursuing a complaint if they realise they have signed.

[Dealer 54]

41 minutes ago, XFS said:

Buyer Declaration.

I have inspected and driven the car. I am satisfied with its overall condition and have accepted any wear and tear to the bodywork, interior, mechanical and electrical components as commensurate with the age, mileage and previous use of the car.

Seller Declaration.

I certify that the car is delivered in a safe and roadworthy condition and complies with current motor vehicle construction and use regulations and at the time of sale would pass or has passed the current MOT test.

Your statutory rights etc, etc, etc

As part of my PDI I always MOT a car or if its been MOT,d recently, have it pre- MOT'd by a certified MOT tester.

That is exactly what I would do. 

Its pretty obvious a "free" health check is is close to a scam as you can get without actually being a scam. As part of my court submission I would also want to know how many cars over 5 years old have had a clean bill of health and what the average cost to rectify "faults" found in a "free" health check are per vehicle.

Already rang them when this first came about, they don't want to know. They aren't going to turn up at court and the customer is using this as their expert advice /evidence etc

[XFS 70]

9 minutes ago, Dealer said:

Already rang them when this first came about, they don't want to know. They aren't going to turn up at court and the customer is using this as their expert advice /evidence etc

As they are material witnesses to the case, they would have no choice. If the customer is using them as witnesses then ask the judge if you can have an adjournment as you want them to appear in person so you can cross examine them or have a solicitor examine the evidence.

I mean no offence, but on the surface it sounds as if you have not prepared for this case.

Taking the information you have given at face value, the case is perfectly winnable, but you would need to challenge the evidence of the main dealer strongly and discredit them...which to be fair should not be that hard.

[It's me 615]

 can i say, im miffed you havent come back and told us you were going to court so we could advise you further before the day

 

you really need to make this so called tech answerable in court

or have put to the court beforehand you wanted an independant inspection (its too late now and in my case i was denied anyway)

regarding the future for anyone reading you really need to lay down thick on your invoice that they are buying a s/h car have been on a test drive and have nothing to report,get them to sign it and also make sure ANY car you retail has a proper pdi with records /a new mot/ and also the customer signs all this paperwork

keep it all together because if you dont and you need it its sods law somethings gone missing

i keep all copies of everything on paper (i use lots of ink) but it means if any electronic device crashes i can go to my home to my cellar and pull everything out

then when you go to court you can show you used all due diligence and that the car was fit for purpose and commensurate with age there will be was and always will be minor leaks debonding of components at 10 years plus

i think you are going to lose but the judge will not give the full amount but maybe 50% of the claim

please use someone like lawgistics in future if you cannot mount a watertight defence

its basically 10 months of hell if you fight these cases on your own with no help from people like lawgistics

[trade vet 704]

Hi Dealer

Good Luck ,even if you proved that the Dealer Health Check was flawed,the scope of CRA is far reaching and unfair....Be very nice to the judge whatever he might say to you.

[Casper 272]

Good luck chin and head up keep us posted all the best .. 

[Lakeside 94]

On 3/18/2019 at 4:47 PM, David Horgan said:

 

Shopping outside his budget I reckon . Plus the MAIN dealers just love milk this type of situation on the chance you may send them a cheque for £3,000 to get it all done . .

 

.....or trade it in and buy a new one.

[SouthernTrader 20]

Good luck today. It seems like you've been reasonable and fair and the customer has unrealistic expectations of a car that's this age and miles. Let us know how you get on

[Dealer 54]

3 hours ago, jason doyle motor sales said:

 can i say, im miffed you havent come back and told us you were going to court so we could advise you further before the day

 

you really need to make this so called tech answerable in court

or have put to the court beforehand you wanted an independant inspection (its too late now and in my case i was denied anyway)

regarding the future for anyone reading you really need to lay down thick on your invoice that they are buying a s/h car have been on a test drive and have nothing to report,get them to sign it and also make sure ANY car you retail has a proper pdi with records /a new mot/ and also the customer signs all this paperwork

keep it all together because if you dont and you need it its sods law somethings gone missing

i keep all copies of everything on paper (i use lots of ink) but it means if any electronic device crashes i can go to my home to my cellar and pull everything out

then when you go to court you can show you used all due diligence and that the car was fit for purpose and commensurate with age there will be was and always will be minor leaks debonding of components at 10 years plus

i think you are going to lose but the judge will not give the full amount but maybe 50% of the claim

please use someone like lawgistics in future if you cannot mount a watertight defence

its basically 10 months of hell if you fight these cases on your own with no help from people like lawgistics

Jason, you are partly correct in what you are saying, just haven't had time to do a more thorough preparation for it. I have obtained a fresh mot carried out last month and also a report from the garage in response to that of Volvo. I've also got evidence of daily use of the vehicle showing that I've travelled a few hundred miles in it without issues.

It has made my life hell and as I said earlier I'm considering getting out of the game, it's not that we sell rubbish and have stuff like this all the time as that isn't the case but this sort of scenario really gets to me and makes what is already a hard game even harder if that makes sense. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Dealer

[AAM90 22]

Good luck! I hope it goes your way and restores your confidence in what you do

[BHM 994]

Some of the initial complaints were clearly the usual bollocks dreamt up by the main dealer however, equally clear is that the suspension bushes are fucked & Ray Charles would of failed them. 

99.9% don’t/won’t go to court. However this has, now I'm no soft touch but if I’d of been in possession of those photos and I thought this was really heading before the judge I’d of put this to bed.

Too late now but firm handling of the case and the customer, sorting anything you thought was your problem & explaining the remaining items in writing to the customer would, very probably, have bottomed this out.

Edited September 4, 2019 by BHM

[MattR 177]

This is the sort of thing that does make us want to stop. It is often said on here that a return and refund is too soft, but I can imagine that after what you have gone through,you would have done it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

I truly wish you well today. Do let us know how you get on. 

And if this comes up again, seek advice, be it Lawgisitics or a general feel from everyone on here

[have a word with the wife 299]

I am confident, reading the posts, a well presented defence got over clearly should result in  a case dismissed, after all, what we all easily forget, is this is a money claim i beleive, and what exactly are they claiming that has not been done or is consistent with age / mileage ? bit of luck  they may not have even turned up, fingers crossed 

[Dealer 54]

Cut a long story short the judge has given extra time and claimant now has to get 3 independent assessors and pass their details to me, I choose 1 and only after that "expert witness" report has been submitted will they continue the process. 

Still up in the air for now, however on picking up on some of the judges points today he mentioned on more than 1 occasion about age and value of the vehicle etc this gave me some optimism. I was really worried before as I had read a thread on here about the chap who sold the galaxy automatic where the claimant kept driving it to destruction yet he still lost. 

Thanks to all those who gave their advice and kind words today. Will be updating again when I have more information. 

[Casper 272]

4 minutes ago, Dealer said:

Cut a long story short the judge has given extra time and claimant now has to get 3 independent assessors and pass their details to me, I choose 1 and only after that "expert witness" report has been submitted will they continue the process. 

Still up in the air for now, however on picking up on some of the judges points today he mentioned on more than 1 occasion about age and value of the vehicle etc this gave me some optimism. I was really worried before as I had read a thread on here about the chap who sold the galaxy automatic where the claimant kept driving it to destruction yet he still lost. 

Thanks to all those who gave their advice and kind words today. Will be updating again when I have more information. 

You welcome all the best