Name & Shame Dealers

[umesh 336]

Lots of debates from so many dealers on here and on the IMDA about 'mis-described ' cars  on various auctions i.e. Dealer Auction seems most popular , many saying the sellers seem to know there are issues with cars but simply not disclosing - many of the dealers on the IMDA Forum feel there is a need to have a section to 'Name & Shame' to worn others to be cautious if these sellers put cars through.

Would it be useful?

I also guess the odd genuine car has issues but it's how the seller deals with it once this is highlighted. 

At the same time name the good ones as they should not be tarred with the same brush, giving evening one more confidence to bid and buy knowing the genuine dealers who do the 'job right'. 

Thoughts?

Umesh 

[Stalker 180]

Hi Umesh,

 

I feel that whilst this could be a good idea..... there are legal implications that could arise.

Lawjaw might be able to advise better?

 

Slander and defamation come to mind?

[SC Derby 259]

How can that apply if you are giving a truthful summary of your experience 

[MattR 177]

An interesting thought. A star/ review system may work, I think we all understand problems with a car can be missed but its how its dealt with that matters. Many of us drive a distance in the car before an issue becomes apparent, which is more than I would expect the selling dealer to do. However, some issues are plain to see and are deliberately excluded from the description.

[grant8064 219]

...don't we already have this on here in the private section?

[Mark101 536]

1 hour ago, Stalker said:

Hi Umesh,

 

I feel that whilst this could be a good idea..... there are legal implications that could arise.

Lawjaw might be able to advise better?

 

Slander and defamation come to mind?

How's this any different to us all slating BCA Assured and Manhiem?

[Stalker 180]

1 minute ago, Mark101 said:

How's this any different to us all slating BCA Assured and Manhiem?

BCA and Manheim care very little for what is said on here.

But none the less, as long as the truth is always told i guess there will be no problems for both sides.

 

 

[RH Trading 80]

1 hour ago, umesh said:

Lots of debates from so many dealers on here and on The IMDA Forum about 'mis-described ' cars  on various auctions i.e. Dealer Auction seems most popular , many saying the sellers seem to know there are issues with cars but simply not disclosing - many of the dealers on the IMDA Forum feel there is a need to have a section to 'Name & Shame' to worn others to be cautious if these sellers put cars through.

Would it be useful?

I also guess the odd genuine car has issues but it's how the seller deals with it once this is highlighted. 

At the same time name the good ones as they should not be tarred with the same brush, giving evening one more confidence to bid and buy knowing the genuine dealers who do the 'job right'. 

Thoughts?

Umesh 

what does IMDA think Umesh? What are your views on it? Personally believe it needs to be independently moderated and run like reviews and star ratings rather than a "rogues gallery" - leaving it up to dealers to name other dealers on a forum is open to abuse and easily misinterpreted

[David Ayers 171]

Ideally Dealer Auction should do it.

It would help maintain the integrity of the site.

 

[metcars 397]

45 minutes ago, RH Trading said:

what does IMDA think Umesh? What are your views on it? Personally believe it needs to be independently moderated and run like reviews and star ratings rather than a "rogues gallery" - leaving it up to dealers to name other dealers on a forum is open to abuse and easily misinterpreted

Well said. I was going to say 'lynch mob' but I like your reply better

Edited April 20, 2018 by met

[Dealer 54]

I've been saying for years that there should be a rating system, heck even sytner have one on their own site. 

[umesh 336]

I was asking the question and not stating that The IMDA has such a page, many dealers have clearly been named on here who have sold cars with issues, Me or The IMDA are not judges on anyone or anybody but simply asking should there be a place where dealers can give their experience good or bad with the cars they have bought which may help fellow dealers?

An open review system which dealers could rate and sellers and have right to reply should they wish to do so. 

No one wants to slate fellow dealers , this job is hard enough with some consumers, however I feel those dealers who time and time shaft other dealers need to understand we're all in the same game and it can't continue, usually the bigger boys who think we the smaller guys don't matter.

The answer I guess is yes! something is needed and it has to be fair to all. 

 

[LawJaw 50]

Defamation falls broadly into two types - Libel and Slander

People often think of the difference by connecting the 'S' of 'Slander' with the 'S' of 'Speech' or 'Spoken' and so you will often hear people say that slander is spoken and thus libel is in writing.  For the most part that can be a correct conclusion but not always so. The distinction is one of permanence. Therefore, if speech is recorded and thus capable of being replayed time and time again (whether it is or not) then that speech is likely to be considered libel(ous) rather than slander(ous).

With that in mind, a 'Name and Shame' campaign is the same as an online review, it is written content and therefore will have the potential to be libellous if;

1. It is published
    
2. The reputation of the 'Named and Shamed' has to be adversely affected by the comments

However you cannot be defamed for statements that are actually truthful. 

Therefore, if you are going to name and shame someone make sure the facts are correct!

Watch our legal advisor explain defermation in more detail on Trade Plates TV

[trade vet 703]

Nothing has changed in donkies years.Most franchised dealer ,sales managers and sales staff are incompetent when it comes to describing stock.There will be a big list for naming and shaming.Most of them are just’passing ships in the night’,you would not want to employ most of them.If you described a 100k 12 year old Micra for valuation,most would reach for their Glasses Guide.You have to be in the ‘risk business’ if you are using Dealer Auction,there will be no little gems,they probably still go out through the back door.

[RH Trading 80]

36 minutes ago, umesh said:

I was asking the question and not stating that The IMDA has such a page, many dealers have clearly been named on here who have sold cars with issues, Me or The IMDA are not judges on anyone or anybody but simply asking should there be a place where dealers can give their experience good or bad with the cars they have bought which may help fellow dealers?

An open review system which dealers could rate and sellers and have right to reply should they wish to do so. 

No one wants to slate fellow dealers , this job is hard enough with some consumers, however I feel those dealers who time and time shaft other dealers need to understand we're all in the same game and it can't continue, usually the bigger boys who think we the smaller guys don't matter.

The answer I guess is yes! something is needed and it has to be fair to all. 

 

no one wants to slate fellow dealers? apologies Umesh I thought you said the IMDA forum wanted a section to name and shame other dealers. this is dangerous and should be strictly moderated independently and preferably not by other dealers so as not be left up to the court of public opinion. Once bitten twice shy is my experience, however I wont blame dealers if they unknowingly trade something to me where they weren't aware of a fault present at time I bought it. but its proving it and in most cases its your word against theirs. Some traders I avoid due to experience have traded on many cars to colleagues without hassle, its personal experience I guess. Who would moderate such a section on your forum if you had one?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

None of these scoundrels will give two hoots until they are forced to take responsibility. The platform provider has to first admit there’s a huge problem with deliberate misrepresentation and then they need to set up a genuine grievance process with a backup feedback system. That’s my opinion. The shite will soon be weeded out. 

[It's me 615]

just like autotrader, anybody heard of them

all the independant dealers are just voices in the wind and can be ignored

this is why unions were started so the common people the plebs have a voice

im anti union always have been because they usually overplay their hands brothers but the site umesh and his comrades set up would go some way to being a voice of the people if it had on board all independent dealers

but when you go down the road to another dealer who tells you his p/x that he doesnt deal in is a peach a steal and you buy it only to find on the journey back it drives like a three wheeled trolley jack and half the switches dont work then as trade vet says you just have to understand you are in the risk business

ive bought 2 stinkers this week but at the end of the day i know i will make profit as everything is fixed in house i never reblock

[NOACROSS 414]

Dealer Auction do not give two-hoots about us buyers. All they are interested in is keeping their dealer network happy. 

I have been with them since day one, and can categorically confirm this: I have, on many occasions collected a car and it’s been totally mis-described, and DA is totally uninterested. 

Boring example follows: on one occasion I went to collect a four year old Fiesta. Two trains and one taxi later, I get there and the car is a shed. The rear wheel arch is missing and jagged metal left. 

They only pictured the good side and put. ‘D’ on the diagram for the offending side. The Dealer Principal wouldn’t even come out of his office. 

I left disappointed and got back in another taxi/ two trains home. 

Car was relisted agin, without any modification to the listing. I rang DA, sent them a picture of the damage.  Nothing happened. 

This is only one example of a handful examples, but, to be fair, most are quite hourable and you get to know the good ones. 

DA (like Autotrader) don’t care about us, and we’re unimportant/ two-a-penny. 

Sytners have a rating system, but, even the bad dealers get top money for everything..

Edited April 20, 2018 by NOACROSS

[BHM 994]

I think Umesh’s idea is a very good one - the best thing I’ve heard the IMDA being actively engaged in - if it comes off. Yes, there is the one on here in the private section but it’s lost amongst everything else AND it’s rarely added to.

As for the pitiful comments about defamation!?!! I cannot believe that is the main concern of any motor trader on here and let’s be honest, ANY written comment either on a message board or a review site could be argued as being defamatory. One thing is for sure, I’d certainly stand by any comments I make regarding a main dealer and their professionalism.

4 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

None of these scoundrels will give two hoots until they are forced to take responsibility. The platform provider has to first admit there’s a huge problem with deliberate misrepresentation and then they need to set up a genuine grievance process with a backup feedback system. That’s my opinion. The shite will soon be weeded out. 

Arfur’s correct and DA clearly do not give a toss. To my mind they’ve gone into ‘auction house mentality’ and currently have no intention of policing their site. Tbh if they did monitor & police effectively one or two dealers surely would be banned, or at least suspended.

1 hour ago, NOACROSS said:

Sytners have a rating system, but, even the bad dealers get top money for everything..

Yes but what bidders bid is up to them & lets be honest, the feedback comments clearly show there are also plenty of arseholes buying - some of these traders are up their own jacksies. Tbh I think the SYTNER feedback ‘model’ is ideal and it’s there for all to see.

5 hours ago, trade vet said:

Nothing has changed in donkies years.Most franchised dealer ,sales managers and sales staff are incompetent when it comes to describing stock.There will be a big list for naming and shaming.Most of them are just’passing ships in the night’,you would not want to employ most of them.

You’ve knocked the nail on the head and as buying is heading more & more online then the fact the IMDA may attempt to start a review system surely is a positive step.

[sparky 274]

13 hours ago, NOACROSS said:

Dealer Auction do not give two-hoots about us buyers. All they are interested in is keeping their dealer network happy. 

I have been with them since day one, and can categorically confirm this: I have, on many occasions collected a car and it’s been totally mis-described, and DA is totally uninterested. 

Boring example follows: on one occasion I went to collect a four year old Fiesta. Two trains and one taxi later, I get there and the car is a shed. The rear wheel arch is missing and jagged metal left. 

They only pictured the good side and put. ‘D’ on the diagram for the offending side. The Dealer Principal wouldn’t even come out of his office. 

I left disappointed and got back in another taxi/ two trains home. 

Car was relisted agin, without any modification to the listing. I rang DA, sent them a picture of the damage.  Nothing happened. 

This is only one example of a handful examples, but, to be fair, most are quite hourable and you get to know the good ones. 

DA (like Autotrader) don’t care about us, and we’re unimportant/ two-a-penny. 

Sytners have a rating system, but, even the bad dealers get top money for everything..

Spot on. In a seller's market DA and their vendors can do what they want. For them to bring in a review system is Turkeys voting for xmas.

The DA debate is going a bit like the AT debate in that there is very little that we can do about it. Your either accept it for what it is or don't use it, it's that simple.

 

P.S Like Grant says, there is already a name and shame section going.