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TRADE SURVIVOR

Clucking Bell

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Across various platforms today as we all are most days, cannot believe the money some of the stock is making really stellar money today!  I do enjoy the odd sherbet and had to check this morning had I had one too many last night? Suitably checked and found it was not a sherbet haze but the reality of the current wholesale market. 

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I was online for most of the day and couldn’t believe how strong the prices where and across all types of stock. I would not have believed the prices some cars where making at auction if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes, it wasn’t just the normal German stuff either, it was everything from a 10 plate Qashqai with 80k making £1000 over cap clean to a late plate Lexus with a single digit desirability rating on Autotrader making almost £2500 over clean and all before auction fee’s. Even stuff needing work made all the money, a 15 plate SEAT Alhambra DSG with a declared gearbox whine make over cap clean, they started the lot over £3500 below cap. Seriously you could go online and buy many of the  cars I watched today from good independent and franchised dealers for the same money people where paying today all prepped and warrantied. Seems madness to me but I’ve only been doing this for 20 years so what do I know.

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I also watched one of the auctions today and it seemed anything half decent was making about £1000 over cap clean

I see some dealers are now starting to source stock from Cazoo :lol:

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Understandable Martin whilst Carzoo and Carzam seem to have a price war going on. Also dealers such as Evans Halshaw have retail priced cars that look value compared to current wholesale prices. 

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9 hours ago, TRADE SURVIVOR said:

Understandable Martin whilst Carzoo and Carzam seem to have a price war going on. Also dealers such as Evans Halshaw have retail priced cars that look value compared to current wholesale prices. 

I've been buying a few main dealer bits and then marking them up when they price them low on autotrader or take 9 pics and don't bother cleaning them. New stock sourcing methods.

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10 hours ago, TRADE SURVIVOR said:

Understandable Martin whilst Carzoo and Carzam seem to have a price war going on. Also dealers such as Evans Halshaw have retail priced cars that look value compared to current wholesale prices. 

There was someone on here awhile ago who said he bought stock off Evans Halshaw forecourts as they would price them up cheaply because they needed paintwork.

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I am the same, sat looking at a list of cars making on average £1000 over book, no matter what it is.  We are being told this is going to continue for a while yet, but personally i'm sceptical if customer demand will remain quite so strong.  I know there's the global processor problem affecting new car production, but I just cant bring myself to fill my forecourt with stock owing me retail.  Looking back on last year, we had the hyper "bounce back loan" prices for a short period and then the market cooled off. Hoping this is the same pattern this time.

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Clearly Cap's wrong, cant catch up fast enough to reflect live prices right now, its not the market that's wrong its IMHO I believe, we've just increased all of our stock by a few hundred and are still selling fast, don't want to be left with empty spaces, cars being sold within 4-5 days at moment when they normally take 2-3 weeks

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3 minutes ago, RH Trading said:

Clearly Cap's wrong, cant catch up fast enough to reflect live prices right now, its not the market that's wrong its IMHO I believe, we've just increased all of our stock by a few hundred and are still selling fast, don't want to be left with empty spaces, cars being sold within 4-5 days at moment when they normally take 2-3 weeks

Cap is more wrong than ever.The conspiracy theory of course is that the major auction groups are not correctly reporting their results to Cap because a lot of major vendors have contracts hedged with them at guaranteed 95% of C/clean.So keeping Cap values lower would be in an auction groups better interests if they get to keep above Cap proceeds.

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Spoke to some Finance People the other day , they are looking at CAP prices being so far out too .

They lend at 120% above CAP Retail and a lot of deals are failing because Customer Deposits are not filling that gap between the actual price and the CAP retail pricing . 

Lots of thoughts about going with the Autotrader Pricing model as it moves faster depending on retail pricing that shows live . 

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9 hours ago, CRW said:

I am the same, sat looking at a list of cars making on average £1000 over book, no matter what it is.  We are being told this is going to continue for a while yet, but personally i'm sceptical if customer demand will remain quite so strong.  I know there's the global processor problem affecting new car production, but I just cant bring myself to fill my forecourt with stock owing me retail.  Looking back on last year, we had the hyper "bounce back loan" prices for a short period and then the market cooled off. Hoping this is the same pattern this time.

We all know CAP is adrift on the money at the moment however current trade prices mental! Stock on our pitch in some cases a grand or more over retail for last September book,  yet seeing motors making same money to trade. Time for caution as far as we are concerned not being negative but as you say how long will the current demand last? The good lady's motor has done less than 500 miles since covid she is one of many who will not be in the market to change this year.

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Posted (edited)

I think most have been very busy the past few weeks / months but we have started to see it slowing down a bit. Things won’t continue like they have been over the last year with record numbers month on month. As soon as it starts to slow down prices will level out and lots of dealers will be stuck with some highly overpriced stock on their stocking plans. 

Edited by James01

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8 hours ago, James01 said:

I think most have been very busy the past few weeks / months but we have started to see it slowing down a bit. Things won’t continue like they have been over the last year with record numbers month on month. As soon as it starts to slow down prices will level out and lots of dealers will be stuck with some highly overpriced stock on their stocking plans. 

This

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11 hours ago, James01 said:

I think most have been very busy the past few weeks / months but we have started to see it slowing down a bit. Things won’t continue like they have been over the last year with record numbers month on month. As soon as it starts to slow down prices will level out and lots of dealers will be stuck with some highly overpriced stock on their stocking plans. 

Just got to move to market, I don't think many people will lose out on stock but at worse see a shift and if you are  quick to react make a small profit, break even and then as you restock to current pricing everything will level off again.

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1 hour ago, Rory RSC said:

Just got to move to market, I don't think many people will lose out on stock but at worse see a shift and if you are  quick to react make a small profit, break even and then as you restock to current pricing everything will level off again.

Exactly this Rory . We cant stop buying because stock is higher value , 

Standing still in my head is going backwards . 

People want cars they pay . 

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1 hour ago, David Horgan said:

Exactly this Rory . We cant stop buying because stock is higher value , 

Standing still in my head is going backwards . 

People want cars they pay . 

Did you see this coming as I remember you buying 40 cheapies and stashing them away. Are they all long gone now?

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4 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

Did you see this coming as I remember you buying 40 cheapies and stashing them away. Are they all long gone now?

Nearly gone as we opened up Rory  after lock down click collect , like shelling peas , 80% of them never got online after the 12th they just walked out .  Good money too , average of 500 notes  extra on each one and some more when i could over the profit margin we planned for   :D.They just kept going up and up .  Wish id bought 100 but we didn't have any more room . 

But I am the ultimate risk taker , i have zero fear of buying , born from an early age in the wholesale fruit markets and produce auctions , 

Like now everyone who waits for the crash is losing money , I'm buying cars at what i sold them at 6 months ago but you know that too , Still selling .

Tell you what though the public are now realising that prices are fixed and cars are short in supply . 

Sellers mkt and about time again :ph34r:

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38 minutes ago, David Horgan said:

Nearly gone as we opened up Rory  after lock down click collect , like shelling peas , 80% of them never got online after the 12th they just walked out .  Good money too , average of 500 notes  extra on each one and some more when i could over the profit margin we planned for   :D.They just kept going up and up .  Wish id bought 100 but we didn't have any more room . 

But I am the ultimate risk taker , i have zero fear of buying , born from an early age in the wholesale fruit markets and produce auctions , 

Like now everyone who waits for the crash is losing money , I'm buying cars at what i sold them at 6 months ago but you know that too , Still selling .

Tell you what though the public are now realising that prices are fixed and cars are short in supply . 

Sellers mkt and about time again :ph34r:

Ultimate risk taker,you must be exceptional DH retailing cheapies,I don’t know any quality pitches retailing cheapies these days.You must have a good system in place although plenty of Doorsteppers appear to still do OK with them without comebacks.I thought CRA 15 and ‘ fit for purpose etc ‘ put paid to proper pitches doing them.In the distant past I used to get excited taking in good cheapies and retailing them without touching them.Now cheapie punters expect a fresh ticket,pay by credit card and know all about CRA 15.

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1 hour ago, David Horgan said:

Nearly gone as we opened up Rory  after lock down click collect , like shelling peas , 80% of them never got online after the 12th they just walked out .  Good money too , average of 500 notes  extra on each one and some more when i could over the profit margin we planned for   :D.They just kept going up and up .  Wish id bought 100 but we didn't have any more room . 

But I am the ultimate risk taker , i have zero fear of buying , born from an early age in the wholesale fruit markets and produce auctions , 

Like now everyone who waits for the crash is losing money , I'm buying cars at what i sold them at 6 months ago but you know that too , Still selling .

Tell you what though the public are now realising that prices are fixed and cars are short in supply . 

Sellers mkt and about time again :ph34r:

Same raided Motab site first lockdown before they closed the site we bought some stupidly cheap stock, needless to all gone with great margins. Hats off to you David  in the current trade market, fortune favours the brave as they say. No doubt you have a number of Cazoo transporters on the way with fully prepped stock ready for you to retail.   

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Posted (edited)

I think one need only drive around the main agents to see why there is a shortage of stock and the real elephant in the room. 

There are so many main agents getting cheaper and dirtier in an effort to keep heads above water.....usual pattern when things get tough. 

Plenty of older cars sitting on their fronts now, incredible as it seems I've seen 58 plate stock offered up this week. 

Some have started side shoot retail companies retailing much of what would of been traded on.

Problem for main agents retailing that old shit is they completely lack the proper knowledge that goes with trying to make a living out of that older stock, which to most main agents are no more than retailing washing machines. It doesn't help with buyers expectations when it appears with their name over it. 

A couple of tame guys I know at main agents retailing older gear are starting to see just why these guys shouldn't be dabbling in this area. They are seeing the problems, headaches, 'interesting' punters, surprises, issues, ruckers, hatstands we see on a daily basis and, why you need to be choosy with whom you sell to, not just selling for sake of it. Also and, very importantly why just running the px 50 yards to the valeting bay is no substitute for an hours drive to check the quality of the chopper.....no 6th gear in a Focus made me laugh. 

Whilst waiting on invoices this last few weeks I've been taking a sideways glance at some of the MA older stock. Some of the lack of prep work is simply astounding.....such as going with 6 month tickets, questionable tyres, slaughterd discs, a bucket of soapy water across the bonnet as a PDI, proper amateur stuff and quite frankly atrocious and slippery behaviour.  

Ohh and...... marking sold as seen/spares or repairs on invoices, it's eye watering the complete lack of understanding here. :rolleyes:

I should add the guys I know aren't at all happy with the way things are going but, the bean counters have spoken. The turnover in MAs makes me dizzy nowadays and this won't help. 

Can't see things changing soon as many MA are hemorrhaging money, most of the profit is off the back of service and they are silly quiet. 

 

Edited by Frank Cannon
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1 hour ago, Frank Cannon said:

Also and, very importantly why just running the px 50 yards to the valeting bay is no substitute for an hours drive to check the quality of the chopper.....no 6th gear in a Focus made me laugh. 

You’re 100% correct but would the typical salesperson, or any MA employee, know a bad car from a good one? Personally I doubt it, the majority are simply ‘in sales’ and could as easily be selling phones, sofas or beds. It would be akin to me appraising the latest smart phone - it switches on so it must be alright :lol:.

As for the workshop staff, I can’t ever see a MA paying for an hours wage & a couple of gallons of fuel to go & kick a cars arse for 50-60 miles, which in my experience is what’s needed to show an old banger’s true character.

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1 hour ago, Frank Cannon said:

I think one need only drive around the main agents to see why there is a shortage of stock and the real elephant in the room. 

There are so many main agents getting cheaper and dirtier in an effort to keep heads above water.....usual pattern when things get tough. 

Plenty of older cars sitting on their fronts now, incredible as it seems I've seen 58 plate stock offered up this week. 

Some have started side shoot retail companies retailing much of what would of been traded on.

Problem for main agents retailing that old shit is they completely lack the proper knowledge that goes with trying to make a living out of that older stock, which to most main agents are no more than retailing washing machines. It doesn't help with buyers expectations when it appears with their name over it. 

A couple of tame guys I know at main agents retailing older gear are starting to see just why these guys shouldn't be dabbling in this area. They are seeing the problems, headaches, 'interesting' punters, surprises, issues, ruckers, hatstands we see on a daily basis and, why you need to be choosy with whom you sell to, not just selling for sake of it. Also and, very importantly why just running the px 50 yards to the valeting bay is no substitute for an hours drive to check the quality of the chopper.....no 6th gear in a Focus made me laugh. 

Whilst waiting on invoices this last few weeks I've been taking a sideways glance at some of the MA older stock. Some of the lack of prep work is simply astounding.....such as going with 6 month tickets, questionable tyres, slaughterd discs, a bucket of soapy water across the bonnet as a PDI, proper amateur stuff and quite frankly atrocious and slippery behaviour.  

Ohh and...... marking sold as seen/spares or repairs on invoices, it's eye watering the complete lack of understanding here. :rolleyes:

I should add the guys I know aren't at all happy with the way things are going but, the bean counters have spoken. The turnover in MAs makes me dizzy nowadays and this won't help. 

Can't see things changing soon as many MA are hemorrhaging money, most of the profit is off the back of service and they are silly quiet. 

 

Great post FC,main dealers workshop related income.Buried in Vertu Motors /Bristol Street recent accounts ( I like reading accounts ? ),it is stated that 40% of their profit comes from just 8% of their £2.5b turnover.I read somewhere they had 100 thousand service contracts in place so they might be keeping them afloat.They probably need to expand to survive ( I do want them to survive BTW they employ 1000’s ).

Alternatively,Marshall’s are doing so well they are repaying £4m they have received in Pandemic Help and 100% of the main shareholders have again voted to extend Mr Gupta’s contract as CEO.where he earns about £500k plus bonuses.He receives about £2m in bonuses ! ,how good is that.

 

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3 hours ago, Frank Cannon said:

I think one need only drive around the main agents to see why there is a shortage of stock and the real elephant in the room. 

There are so many main agents getting cheaper and dirtier in an effort to keep heads above water.....usual pattern when things get tough. 

Plenty of older cars sitting on their fronts now, incredible as it seems I've seen 58 plate stock offered up this week. 

Some have started side shoot retail companies retailing much of what would of been traded on.

Problem for main agents retailing that old shit is they completely lack the proper knowledge that goes with trying to make a living out of that older stock, which to most main agents are no more than retailing washing machines. It doesn't help with buyers expectations when it appears with their name over it. 

A couple of tame guys I know at main agents retailing older gear are starting to see just why these guys shouldn't be dabbling in this area. They are seeing the problems, headaches, 'interesting' punters, surprises, issues, ruckers, hatstands we see on a daily basis and, why you need to be choosy with whom you sell to, not just selling for sake of it. Also and, very importantly why just running the px 50 yards to the valeting bay is no substitute for an hours drive to check the quality of the chopper.....no 6th gear in a Focus made me laugh. 

Whilst waiting on invoices this last few weeks I've been taking a sideways glance at some of the MA older stock. Some of the lack of prep work is simply astounding.....such as going with 6 month tickets, questionable tyres, slaughterd discs, a bucket of soapy water across the bonnet as a PDI, proper amateur stuff and quite frankly atrocious and slippery behaviour.  

Ohh and...... marking sold as seen/spares or repairs on invoices, it's eye watering the complete lack of understanding here. :rolleyes:

I should add the guys I know aren't at all happy with the way things are going but, the bean counters have spoken. The turnover in MAs makes me dizzy nowadays and this won't help. 

Can't see things changing soon as many MA are hemorrhaging money, most of the profit is off the back of service and they are silly quiet. 

 

This post is so accurate it should be a sticky

whilst i don't do 60 miles in my cars we have a set route of 12 which covers as much as we can,this is tick boxed on our pdi but does not get seen by the customer unless they ask

you have to be in the trade to understand how a non new car drives, my old favourite is it drives like a 3 wheeled trolley jack,so we wont be retailing it

experience is king if not selling out of the box, shiney shoes don't find faults pre sale

regarding shite on the dealers forecourt i honestly thought they had learnt from this after 2008 but looking round the greedy bastards haven't

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38 minutes ago, It's me said:

regarding shite on the dealers forecourt i honestly thought they had learnt from this after 2008 but looking round the greedy bastards haven't

Different set of so called managers and bean counters thats why .

easy to add numbers up .

Just see the brain whirring cant you "ureka moment"  , " hey 25 px's at £700 gross profit is 17k + :lol: " look what were missing out on :o

Then they learn the hard way , 

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Absolute nightmare this weekend trying to buy off private

Agreed prices (and even left deposits) with multiple individuals who only refused to proceed / 'changed their mind' / got a better offer

Others completely refusing to negotiate from their retail prices. 

Just had another one tell me he will not sell to trade and he's had a better offer from WBAC - which he clearly hasn't 

Full moon ??

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