david gott 58 Posted December 19, 2018 Won a car on dealer auction, the salesman from the dealership emailed me invoice on Monday,we paid the £2500 Tuesday morning, today Movex arrive to collect, the dealership say the money hasn’t been paid, long story short, somebody has hacked into the dealerships email and changed the account number and sort code so I’ve sent the money to a complete different account. Rang Natwest fraud team, apparently it’s becoming a common trick, worst thing is I might not get the money back, be careful sending money, you never think it’s going to happen to you and then when it does you never see it coming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SC Derby 259 Posted December 19, 2018 Why can't dealer auction securely provide the sort codes and account numbers? Even if the dealership sent them again, you could cross reference them? I suggested it YEARS ago and they said no because they like to encourage communication between buyer & seller, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
umesh 336 Posted December 19, 2018 David, I Feel for you mate!! Is yours the only case they have? I have heard of it happening. was the account details just on the email or on the invoice as well? Umesh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david gott 58 Posted December 19, 2018 I’m not sure Umesh, the other dealership were trying to blame me as if I’d changed the invoice but NatWest said that it can only get changed at their end, looking back you would have never have gave it a second thought, hopefully I’ll get the money back f I kick up a fuss with the bank. Email had invoice attached and then account details attached, looking at the account details the font is slighty different to the rest of the fonts but if you were on an iPhone on iPad you would have never gave it a second thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SC Derby 259 Posted December 19, 2018 How would the hacker have known that you had requested an invoice? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James01 21 Posted December 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, SC Derby said: How would the hacker have known that you had requested an invoice? Exactly what I was thinking. Would have had to have access to the dealer auction database or the dealers account to find out what dealer won the auction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justina3 518 Posted December 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, SC Derby said: How would the hacker have known that you had requested an invoice? They monitor your emails for weeks if not months ahead to follow the same patterns so nothing jumps out as odd, they use the same communications down to how you sign with regards best wishes your sincerely ect its a very cleaver trick. Company policy for us is now to ring and confirm every new transaction if its not already on our banking schedule of payes we had a client last year send £25k to the wrong account was for a extension nothing to do with cars, and they where solicitors both husband and wife. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trident 24 Posted December 19, 2018 I think they intercept the outgoing email somehow... then change details and forward the ammended email!!! scary stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RHC 0 Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) Several councils have been hit with the same scam. Been going on for years. Melton Mowbray council got taken for £200k. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-leicestershire-44980255 Edited December 19, 2018 by RHC Spelling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david gott 58 Posted December 19, 2018 I had 4 emails from the dealer, all the same layout, the last email had the invoice attached and bank details just like what you normally get, solicitor has said it could be the dealers fault for not having the correct online security in place 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DPF 18 Posted December 19, 2018 Very very scary these days. Always ring double check account number if not on banking lists. We all can’t afford to lost that money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del Boy 76 Posted December 19, 2018 Sorry to hear this David. Could it be someone at the dealership has intercepted the information, opened a new bank account and sent the fraudulent email to you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Branning 149 Posted December 19, 2018 Why cant they just have bank details on listing page. When you win auction you can send money instantly rather than having to send emails back and forth to get the details. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Horgan 564 Posted December 19, 2018 That's just terrible David . I really hope you get the money back , Not a small amount to lose for sure . Maybe we should take note and ring for bank information from now on , as you say , You didn't see it coming . Some F###ing Bas#ards out there . I hate thieves with a Vengeance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
umesh 336 Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, David Horgan said: Maybe we should take note and ring for bank information from now on , as you say , You didn't see it coming I've done that many times, called and asked them to confirm what the details are compared to the email/invoice they've sent. .( Only because I remember the programme that RHC mentions so made me very cautious from that day!) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arfur Dealy 823 Posted December 19, 2018 David, it would have fooled me aswell. I hope you get your money back mate, its made me realise that I am vulnerable, so thanks for posting...... S Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 703 Posted December 19, 2018 What a headache and the police probably won’t be interested as fraud enquiries are not cost effective.A couple of years ago an American guy we know sold his apartment in Spain for big money.The Spanish lawyer following instructions from his US lawyer sent the proceeds which never arrived.It had gone to a Mexican Bank and disappeared. I hope you get it sorted,don’t give up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metcars 397 Posted December 19, 2018 Couple of years back I bought a French ladies jetski for £2,500 after she got into my paypal account. Paypal were brilliant, NatWest were next to useless! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's me 615 Posted December 19, 2018 just wow hope you get it sorted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick M.K. 574 Posted December 19, 2018 Hopefully the bank sees some sense and refunds the money... Do you still have to complete the purchase of that vehicle David? Ring the dealers, explain this predicament and if possible ask them to lower their price a fair bit to help you absorb that loss. If the money is eventually returned (even months later) send the dealership the difference. They are not exactly at fault but the leak or hack is probably at their end or DA. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparky 274 Posted December 19, 2018 Wow, scary stuff. But for the grace of god.... Hope you get it sorted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 703 Posted December 19, 2018 51 minutes ago, met said: Couple of years back I bought a French ladies jetski for £2,500 after she got into my paypal account. Paypal were brilliant, NatWest were next to useless! We are with Nat West,you are right.A few weeks ago we ordered an additional faster payment card or whatever it is called.They wanted us to sign about 11 pages of legalese first.No way were we doing that,we could have been signing away our rights.What you have to remember is that banks are not regulated,they can rip you off and get away with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExCouncilJobsworth 27 Posted December 19, 2018 Why have they got the 1960s system of sort codes and account numbers? They should have a pay by card system?! Could be a little runt at DA who changed it to his pals account... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 703 Posted December 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, ExCouncilJobsworth said: Why have they got the 1960s system of sort codes and account numbers? They should have a pay by card system?! Could be a little runt at DA who changed it to his pals account... DA should be investigating,where is their external affairs guy who comes on here and I think is part of IMDA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCC 31 Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Nick M.K. said: Hopefully the bank sees some sense and refunds the money... Do you still have to complete the purchase of that vehicle David? Ring the dealers, explain this predicament and if possible ask them to lower their price a fair bit to help you absorb that loss. If the money is eventually returned (even months later) send the dealership the difference. They are not exactly at fault but the leak or hack is probably at their end or DA. From what I've read the problem is with the DA being hacked, so the bank will just bounce the issue (as they can't be held accountable for the DA's lack of security). Technically the DA should report the breach of their systems to the GDPR authorities now and risk a fine (or a bigger fine if someone else reports it, maybe a bargaining chip) The situation highlights a situation that many of us would have fallen for, I used to set up accounts and just send £1 initially to check it was working OK but you get used to sending larger amounts and I stopped doing that a while ago. I just renewed my personal business insurance and included Cyber Risks for the 1st time ever, cost me £120 extra but maybe that was well worth it. One reason I sold my old business was that the amount of hacking going on was increasing exponentially and with it both the cost of security systems and also the level of risk if they got through to our website. We use office 365 for business email accounts now (does anyone know if that's hackable)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
