Dealer 54 Posted October 20, 2018 Had a call today that a vehicle we sold over 4 months ago has had a timing chain snap, we offer 3 months warranty as standard and I'm looking for any advice on where we stand with this. Car had done approx 100k, no signs of any noise while it was in our possession and drove fine to us and when we used it prior to sale. Anyone on here had a similar scenario? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EPV 631 Posted October 20, 2018 Have you had it back? Is it 100% diagnoses? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick M.K. 574 Posted October 20, 2018 Yes. It's quite common unfortunately. First get the exact mileage from your customer to establish how much have they driven it after purchase. If it's something reasonable like 2-3000 miles offer them a GOODWILL contribution towards their repair cost OR to buy the car back at a reduced price. Remind them of course that your warranty has indeed expired and that you reserve your right to have the vehicle independently examined to establish the cause for this failure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NOACROSS 414 Posted October 20, 2018 Oh dear (yet another story of Germany's finest doom) sorry to hear that! As usual, for me it may be helpful to know your prep and handover/ handover paperwork) etc. New MOT, good service, pdi signed etc? How many miles has it done in their hands? As EPV says, hopefully you've got it back to check - however, I guess you are thinking you're leaving yourself open if you do agree to have it back? If you've spelled it out at handover and they signed to agree and they've done a load of miles, then you could try and say they're on their own as it obviously wasn't there at the time of sale as a fault. I too would contribute however in some way at least- depending on miles done as said and subject to your inspection as Nick says. Are they saying 'bollocks to your warranty mate- you're gonna pay' or are they just asking politely for your thoughts/expressing their displeasure? Good luck. Keep us posted! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dealer 54 Posted October 20, 2018 No way was it there at time of sale and I'm wondering whether it showed any signs of noise etc prior to failure and perhaps whether any sign was ignored and the car just being used as normal. The customer of course won't admit this even if it was the case. She started off nicely and has now started threatening to send her husband over blah blah blah. Haven't seen the car yet, she states she's only done 1000 miles or so since purchase and yes i feel that if we do get it back we are leaving ourselves open. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A4AJI 1 Posted October 20, 2018 i had same experience with bmw 1 series and 3 series 2005 onwards when i use to sell loads of bmw. common problem timing chain jump due to low quality of plastic tensioner which runs timing chain. Try to contact bmw specialist in your area or i will suggest one bmw specialist http://www.rawspares.co.uk speak to Robert or Charlie on 0208 684 9353 they will help you to fix the problem if engine not damage, make sure don't try to start the vehicle. Cost approx £500 or more subject to check the engine properly. better pay them and get it fixed instead of taking the car back. try your luck to get some money from customer towards the repairs. thanks 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Del Boy 76 Posted October 20, 2018 Threatening? If you have it in writing then report her to the police. I wouldnt stand for that. The fault wasnt there at point of sale. End of. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick M.K. 574 Posted October 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Dealer said: i feel that if we do get it back we are leaving ourselves open You were already open when you supplied a 100K mile BMW (I sell them well too) but I would agree that you shouldn't rush into getting it back. If it arrives back to you, you will end up owning it. A good option if it comes to that (and if you have the stock of course) is to offer the customer another one of your cars in swap, one with lower value but similar size and condition. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rory RSC 596 Posted October 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dealer said: No way was it there at time of sale and I'm wondering whether it showed any signs of noise etc prior to failure and perhaps whether any sign was ignored and the car just being used as normal. The customer of course won't admit this even if it was the case. She started off nicely and has now started threatening to send her husband over blah blah blah. Haven't seen the car yet, she states she's only done 1000 miles or so since purchase and yes i feel that if we do get it back we are leaving ourselves open. It was not broken at the time of sale. It has been fine for many hundreds / thousands of miles and you gave a 3 month / 3000 mile warranty. That being said it would not feel great for you if you bought a car and suffered a catastrophic failing a few months after purchased and were left with a choice of scrap of a repair for several thousands. Best solution would be keep customer on side, offer to inspect and try to fight her corner with BMW ( age / mileage / history dependent). Some customers have had goodwill from main agents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick M.K. 574 Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, Rory RSC said: It was not broken at the time of sale. It has been fine for many hundreds / thousands of miles and you gave a 3 month / 3000 mile warranty. The problem here is that they've driven it little and CRA will assume that a fault that presents itself in the first 6 months after the sale was there UNLESS the dealer can prove that it wasn't. ACE Engineers or DEKRA can provide an independent engineer's report but that may well say that the "chain snapped due to age-related wear and sudden breakage in the plastic chain guides which would've been present and developed at the point of sale"... BMW will not offer a contribution at over 100K miles unless the car is only a few years old. You can always offer to chase BMW for it but that's unlikely to be enough to make the customer happy. ££££ is what everyone wants. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A4AJI 1 Posted October 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said: The problem here is that they've driven it little and CRA will assume that a fault that presents itself in the first 6 months after the sale was there UNLESS the dealer can prove that it wasn't. ACE Engineers or DEKRA can provide an independent engineer's report but that may well say that the "chain snapped due to age-related wear and sudden breakage in the plastic chain guides which would've been present and developed at the point of sale"... BMW will not offer a contribution at over 100K miles unless the car is only a few years old. You can always offer to chase BMW for it but that's unlikely to be enough to make the customer happy. ££££ is what everyone wants. bmw main dealer or bmw UK which ever, they don't even cover mine 30,000 miles 08 plate car, so do you think they will cover over 100k Miles car. they don't want to know over 3 years old vehicle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nick M.K. 574 Posted October 20, 2018 Just now, A4AJI said: they don't want to know over 3 years old vehicle. Big dealerships like Sytner will always chase the manufacturer for Goodwill repairs on cars just out-of-warranty. In the last few months I've had an A/C condenser leak authorised (£1200 repair) and also a Range Extender wiring loom on an i3 (£800). I hadn't asked for this. The dealership knew the vehicles were out of warranty and chased BMW before even calling me back with Quotes. On the A/C condenser repair I had to contribute £120 for new A/C refrigerant, new type R1234yf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stockedup! 63 Posted October 20, 2018 24 minutes ago, Dealer said: No way was it there at time of sale and I'm wondering whether it showed any signs of noise etc prior to failure and perhaps whether any sign was ignored and the car just being used as normal. The customer of course won't admit this even if it was the case. She started off nicely and has now started threatening to send her husband over blah blah blah. Haven't seen the car yet, she states she's only done 1000 miles or so since purchase and yes i feel that if we do get it back we are leaving ourselves open. I had one on a 5 series just a few weeks ago. I parked the sweet running/sounding car up, went back 2 days later and when I started it the noise was horrendous. Lucky I wasn't driving it. Cost about £800 plus the dreaded to do it, very common on the 2.0 litre diesel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A4AJI 1 Posted October 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said: Big dealerships like Sytner will always chase the manufacturer for Goodwill repairs on cars just out-of-warranty. In the last few months I've had an A/C condenser leak authorised (£1200 repair) and also a Range Extender wiring loom on an i3 (£800). I hadn't asked for this. The dealership knew the vehicles were out of warranty and chased BMW before even calling me back with Quotes. On the A/C condenser repair I had to contribute £120 for new A/C refrigerant, new type R1234yf try your luck mate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattR 177 Posted October 20, 2018 I'm not sure how old the car was or how much it was sold for, but unless its a banger my guess is that if this went all the way to a court it would be down to you. So do what you can as quickly as you can to minimize the possibility of this happening, hopefully the customer hasnt made it worse by trying to start it repeatedly after it snapping. is your warranty in house or backed by a warranty company? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dealer 54 Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nick M.K. said: In house Matt Edited October 20, 2018 by Dealer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave2302 387 Posted October 20, 2018 A catastrophic Engine failure = Car cannot be used, 1000 miles in 3 - 4 months, any Judge, if it went that far would rule in the billy's favour. I know it grates, and I know it's a bummer, but like Nick said, that mileage it was a ticking time bomb I'd get it straight back, price it up and either refund the Billy if they're aggro, or repair it for them if they're OK folks and ok with a repair. I would minimise the damage to my wallet, get it back before Main Dealers or Engine Rebuilders etc etc start getting involved and seeing a tidy profit. Surely you must have decent mechanic you can use, whole job can be done reasonably with the right contacts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Horgan 564 Posted October 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Dealer said: Had a call today that a vehicle we sold over 4 months ago has had a timing chain snap, we offer 3 months warranty as standard and I'm looking for any advice on where we stand with this. Car had done approx 100k, no signs of any noise while it was in our possession and drove fine to us and when we used it prior to sale. Anyone on here had a similar scenario? I would say after 4 months your going to have to at best contribute to a repair , but that depends on the customers attitude really . Worst case is you pay to fix it or replace engine , but if you replace engine its better to replace chain anyway , expensive choice but you are in control . The other choice is to take the car back at a price that suits you both , fix it and resell with a new lease of life . Again your in control . Let some else fix it and your not in control , but if they stuff the repair it can get nasty all ways round . Either way round I can see you stumping cash up , just got to choose the least expensive way and sell it to her . Moral is , don't ever sell a 2.0 litre BMW again . New VW , Skoda SEAT , Audi TSI chain engines are the same "1.4 , 2.0 litre units ", Hopeless things , plus manifolds at horrendous costs too . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dave2302 387 Posted October 20, 2018 /\ /\ /\ +1 2 minutes ago, David Horgan said: Either way round I can see you stumping cash up , just got to choose the least expensive way and sell it to her . Sums it up really Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattR 177 Posted October 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Dave2302 said: /\ /\ /\ +1 Sums it up really 1 hour ago, Dealer said: In house Matt Oh Well. At least you should have a pot to dip in to for just such a situation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
David Horgan 564 Posted October 20, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, tradex said: Is it a 2.0 litre? My money is on a 320d 2.5 /3.0 six pot engines are so much better Useless bloody engines the 118/120 d things Edited October 20, 2018 by David Horgan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dealer 54 Posted October 20, 2018 118d chaps so yes 2 litre Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's me 612 Posted October 20, 2018 you cant win this put yourself in customer viewpoint they bought a prestige car get the car back appraise and as said option ise where you go forward from there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dealer 54 Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, tradex said: It's like pulling teeth, what year Could this be down to wear and tear.... Apologies, 2011 model. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stalker 180 Posted October 20, 2018 It’s a right old pain in the arse this job. we have had 6 snapped chains on those N47 engined BMW’s, at all different mileages. Speed of the engine and the car is your friend in these engines. How did it snap? At start up? = chain plus rockers On motorway at 70 mph? = Pistons, rods, valves, camshafts, camshaft carrier, timing case cover, sump, Plus above. Its not that evil a job. But a routinely changed timing belt is always easier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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