Challenge

[Arthur thicken 13]

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

Hi Arthur

‘Our guys’,they took over our business or in corporate bullshit terms ‘management buyout’.After 50 years in the job,I am now just a periferal,but I still get involved with the daily problems.I think they cough up over £3k per month for 50,I will find out and get back.

 

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

Hi Arthur

‘Our guys’,they took over our business or in corporate bullshit terms ‘management buyout’.After 50 years in the job,I am now just a periferal,but I still get involved with the daily problems.I think they cough up over £3k per month for 50,I will find out and get back.

Hi trade vet, thanks for that, I can assure you prices vary wildly, everyone thinks they’ve done the best deal they can, and if they’re happy then fair enough, I’m not so I’m just sharing my future plans and what I’ve been paying. It’s now easy to measure what you get for the money, and it’s just not good enough for me.

I’ve just logged into dealer portal and done a screen shot of the group view (2 sites) and then took individual photos of each ones amount of vehicles, it clearly states contracted for 45 cars per site, I’ll do the same with the invoice in the morning, then there’s no boubting what I say. Arthur Thicken driving the prices brown, tried up but it didnt work, AT say you gotta sell um cheaper...

Edited March 22, 2018 by Arthur thicken
Bad grammar

[justina3 518]

1 minute ago, tradex said:

doesn't matter if you're selling porkers or pigs, this business is so tough nowadays, 

Retirement (or semi retirement)  is looking so much better each and every day, thought I'd miss it but now, well whats to miss? 

us 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

I’m £1600 for 15 + 3 (approx) inc VAT

[Arthur thicken 13]

14 hours ago, NOACROSS said:

And, remember, you've gotta sell what- three cars a month (notwithstanding allowance for their famous never ending five week months/confusing invoicing) just to pay the robbing so and so's? (Assuming your net profit per unit is apx.£500 after VAT etc) 36 units a year 

(is your website an AT one?)

 

14 hours ago, NOACROSS said:

And, remember, you've gotta sell what- three cars a month (notwithstanding allowance for their famous never ending five week months/confusing invoicing) just to pay the robbing so and so's? (Assuming your net profit per unit is apx.£500 after VAT etc) 36 units a year 

(is your website an AT one?)

Our website is not an Autotrader one, also we can’t operate off £500 nett it needs to be more than that. Realistically we need a minimum PPU of £750 and need to do 30 cars per site per month, I know we all have different set ups but that’s ours.

3 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I’m £1600 for 15 + 3 (approx) inc VAT

I’ve taken a screenshot of dealer portal showing our contracted amount of cars on each site,I ive also got a copy invoice showing less than 3 grand plus vat for ninety cars in total, so less than £1500 for 45 cars. I don’t know how you make it pay on what you’re giving them, you may say you sell cars for good margin, but cars are dear to buy, auction fees are expensive and to appear on page one of Autotrader you’ve got to be cheap.

[Arthur thicken 13]

11 hours ago, Hugh Jardon said:

Arthur am I right in thinking you set up the MTAU a few years ago taking on Autotrader then it all went quiet? Guess you had a deal with them? Obviously your disgruntled again now how about getting it going again? I am happy to get involved and let's open up to everyone who pays them top dollar the truth?

Hugh, yes that was me, the problem is dealers moan about the price but when it comes to it were frightened to pull off AT. If it were to be set up again it would need to be like a hub offering alternative solutions to AT, it would need Motors, Car Gurus, Ebay to offer a collective discount for members, there would need to be offers from Motor trade insurers, parts suppliers, any motor trade specific companies offering a discount to members. When I came off years ago, I was with ebay, motors, v cars, piston heads, it cost half of what AT was and we sold the same, only reason I went back on was it went quiet and my business partner suggested we give it another go, so we did.

11 hours ago, Hugh Jardon said:

In my opinion everyone hates Autotrader for all the right reasons but are terrified to come off, if enough people would do it then believe me they would react and then all of us would benefit. Arthur lets go again with the MTAU dealers are closing every week and it's going to happen week in and week out I think the support will be even bigger than last time. People multiple search now and if less cars on Autotrader they will look elsewhere.

You're absolutely right Hugh, margins are being squeezed and costs are going up, be better off getting a job if it continues

[Arthur thicken 13]

I have uploaded a screen shot of the amount of contracted cars and a copy invoice as promised.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, Arthur thicken said:

I’ve taken a screenshot of dealer portal showing our contracted amount of cars on each site,I ive also got a copy invoice showing less than 3 grand plus vat for ninety cars in total, so less than £1500 for 45 cars. I don’t know how you make it pay on what you’re giving them, you may say you sell cars for good margin, but cars are dear to buy, auction fees are expensive and to appear on page one of Autotrader you’ve got to be cheap.

Hi Arthur, you are a Fiat & Citroen Main Dealer with all the associated overheads.

Your business is not comparable to mine, I only pay myself so I’m usually in profit by mid month. 

You clearly have a special deal with AT, I am sure there will be lots of very angry Dealers out there comparing what they are paying. 

[Hugh Jardon 0]

Hi Arthur, it does appear that businesses are paying different amounts, but even on your low pricing based on what you have said then even you are paying to much cost per sale, some people must be paying aver £300 per sale and therefore working for less than £500 per unit? 

[Arthur thicken 13]

Hi Arfur, I Never tried to suggest I'm comparable to you, as I said we are all different, if you see this as a special deal, ask if you can have it, it's too expensive for me. We are not main dealers either, aftersales only, up until recently we sold new Citroen Fiat and Mitsubishi, new car franchise costs are huge but aftersales isn't. I sometimes wish I stayed on my own, you must enjoy the freedom, I know I did. If I was selling from a small site or from home I would definitely advertise on AT because without all the costs we have I could sell cars cheaper, retain margin and have a little 'Great Price' tag by all my cars. If dealers become angry because of what I'm paying they shoud look to themselves and question why they paid so much. Good luck Arfur, happy selling. 

[Stalker 180]

2 hours ago, Arthur thicken said:

I have uploaded a screen shot of the amount of contracted cars and a copy invoice as promised.

Is it just me .....

£1600 + Vat is £1920

your bill states

£2933.40p plus vat is £3520.08p.

 

No wonder your struggling to return a profit, your math is poor.

[Arthur thicken 13]

4 minutes ago, Stalker said:

Is it just me .....

£1600 + Vat is £1920

your bill states

£2933.40p plus vat is £3520.08p.

 

No wonder your struggling to return a profit, your math is poor.

Hi Stalker, it is for 90 cars, the vat is not relevant, but if your not vat registered you wouldn't know that. The bill is for £2944.40 for 90 cars split between 2 sites. The £1600 I quoted is the new price it's going up to per site, which will be £3200 plus vat (are you keeping up?) they are also saying it will be for a total of 74 cars instead of 90, so less cars for more money. I hope I haven't lost you, but if you want me to draw you a picture and colour it in let me know

[Stalker 180]

5 minutes ago, Arthur thicken said:

Hi Stalker, it is for 90 cars, the vat is not relevant, but if your not vat registered you wouldn't know that. The bill is for £2944.40 for 90 cars split between 2 sites. The £1600 I quoted is the new price it's going up to per site, which will be £3200 plus vat (are you keeping up?) they are also saying it will be for a total of 74 cars instead of 90, so less cars for more money. I hope I haven't lost you, but if you want me to draw you a picture and colour it in let me know

Hi Arthur

My apologies, then this is outrageous, im going to give the Autotrader some shit right now.

 "ill be back"

[Arthur thicken 13]

1 minute ago, Stalker said:

Hi Arthur

My apologies, then this is outrageous, im going to give the Autotrader some shit right now.

 "ill be back"

Good luck to you sir, I did slightly mis quote before, its 38 cars for £1632.30 per site for the new April pricing so in rough terms paying about £280 more per month for 14 cars less if we were to continue with both sites. Happy to put the AT quote on there if anyone wants to see it.

[BHM 994]

Very very interesting. How refreshing that a member of this industry is prepared to back-up what they’ve stated & can clearly be seen to be correct. A round of applause for Arthur thicken!!

7 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I’m £1600 for 15 + 3 (approx) inc VAT

Sorry but you must of opted for the shittest deal ever, although I’m not on AT a fellow trader is on a 15 car deal and before Christmas the invoice was just under £1200 (I can’t remember if that was before or after VAT) which I thought was bad enough! Perhaps I’m just cheap 

[Arthur thicken 13]

7 minutes ago, BHM said:

Very very interesting. How refreshing that a member of this industry is prepared to back-up what they’ve stated & can clearly be seen to be correct. A round of applause for Arthur thicken!!

Sorry but you must of opted for the shittest deal ever, although I’m not on AT a fellow trader is on a 15 car deal and before Christmas the invoice was just under £1200 (I can’t remember if that was before or after VAT) which I thought was bad enough! Perhaps I’m just cheap 

I'm not sure what you mean, your trader mate pays £1200 for 15 cars I pay £1500 (using round numbers) for 45. He pays £18.46 per car per week, I pay £7.69 per car per week. So you can see what I mean when I say how did I opt for the shittiest deal ever, I bet you wont find anyone paying less per car per week than me in the UK, for reasons posted earlier.

[trade vet 702]

Our guys pay £3000+vat for 48 cars p/m.....Autotrader could be operating illegally,this appears to be anti competitive practice and price discrimination,they are a public company.We need more people to post their AT deal on here.Arthur should be congratulated.

[Trident 24]

I'll just leave this here for future reference........

https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing/report-anticompetitive-activity

Report other anti-competitive activity

Fill in the form to report anti-competitive activity like abusing a dominant position. Send it to general.enquiries@cma.gsi.gov.uk.

[umesh 336]

I was under the impression everyone paid the same to some degree! i.e. 20 car package is the same for everyone ? 

Also been told numerous times ( but have no proof) that Franchise dealers pay less than the Independents ? 

[MSP Motors 39]

The guy who works next to me pays....... 

 

ProductChargedFrom 1st April

QtySpend

Forecourt Stock 13

Contracted Adverts 15

Bonus Allowance 2

Bargain Allowance 3

Dealer financeMonthly 50.10

Starter PackageMonthly 1092.30

he does not have the website through autotrader, this is all Plus the dreaded

Edited March 23, 2018 by MSP Motors
mistake

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, BHM said:

Sorry but you must of opted for the shittest deal ever, although I’m not on AT a fellow trader is on a 15 car deal and before Christmas the invoice was just under £1200 (I can’t remember if that was before or after VAT) which I thought was bad enough! Perhaps I’m just cheap 

BHM, you can’t be a judge on hearsay and you can’t compare cost without having the full facts. AT enables me to sell 15 cars a month, that earns me a jolly good wage. AT facilitate my business concept most effectively and with the highest ROI. When they don’t I will simply look elsewhere. 

[Stalker 180]

Right...

I have just rang and spoken to a Autotrader representative that has been very well trained (Brainwashed) in the art of defending Autotraders.

It seems as though we pay £2617.65 for 35+5 cars we get a loyalty discount of £175 for being a long standing customer - full rate should be £2792.65p.

However it seems as though if we were franchised we would pay £1956.95p!

These are all plus vat.

The smarmy bastard has just reminded me about the price increase in April.

It is simply not "fair",  it needs to be a level playing field, i can understand if you are a supermarket advertising hundreds of cars.

[Arthur thicken 13]

It shouldn't matter who you are, it should be a price per car perhaps in banding, say 10-20 cars 20-30 cars and so on. Back in 2012 PSA wrote me a letter to say they no longer saw value in the franchised dealer AT supported deal, which at that time was £5.25 per car, they thought it was too dear. Apologies if you don't know  but PSA are Citroen and Peugeot. That's b******s about franchised deals differing from non franchised, their sales director told me a few years ago there would be no franchised dealer discounts, just ask yourself, why wold AT give discount to a dealer because he's got Citroen signs up and you haven't.

2 hours ago, trade vet said:

Our guys pay £3000+vat for 48 cars p/m.....Autotrader could be operating illegally,this appears to be anti competitive practice and price discrimination,they are a public company.We need more people to post their AT deal on here.Arthur should be congratulated.

£14.42 per car per week. A bit stiff Trade Vat.

44 minutes ago, Stalker said:

Right...

I have just rang and spoken to a Autotrader representative that has been very well trained (Brainwashed) in the art of defending Autotraders.

It seems as though we pay £2617.65 for 35+5 cars we get a loyalty discount of £175 for being a long standing customer - full rate should be £2792.65p.

However it seems as though if we were franchised we would pay £1956.95p!

These are all plus vat.

The smarmy bastard has just reminded me about the price increase in April.

It is simply not "fair",  it needs to be a level playing field, i can understand if you are a supermarket advertising hundreds of cars.

£15.10 per car per week, nothing is the same here is it, no one cheaper than me yet and if you say you are I expect you to do me the same courtesy of putting your invoice and contracted numbers on here..

Edited March 23, 2018 by Arthur thicken

[Arfur Dealy 823]

3 hours ago, Arthur thicken said:

Hi Arfur, I Never tried to suggest I'm comparable to you, as I said we are all different, if you see this as a special deal, ask if you can have it, it's too expensive for me. We are not main dealers either, aftersales only, up until recently we sold new Citroen Fiat and Mitsubishi, new car franchise costs are huge but aftersales isn't. I sometimes wish I stayed on my own, you must enjoy the freedom, I know I did. If I was selling from a small site or from home I would definitely advertise on AT because without all the costs we have I could sell cars cheaper, retain margin and have a little 'Great Price' tag by all my cars. If dealers become angry because of what I'm paying they shoud look to themselves and question why they paid so much. Good luck Arfur, happy selling. 

I understand and agree 100% with what you are saying  

To quote though your website states 

Welcome to Motorwell Group
New and Used Citroen and Fiat Main Dealer

 

[Earunder 69]

20 hours ago, Arthur thicken said:

Apologies, we pay £1600 for 45 cars, we stock 60 cars.. £5,000 is madness that’s £19.23 per week, we’re dumping it at just under £10 per car per week.

I know one dealer, who advertises over 150 cars, pays around £9,000 but sells 30% of his stock every month from AT alone.  You tell him it's too expensive and he'll laugh.  If it works, as it does for the majority, and more importantly gives you a ROI then it's worth doing.  IF it doesn't and in your case, mine too, then cancel.  I cancelled mine awhile back as it was giving AT 60% of my profit from sales generated by them.  Luckily AT were only responsible for 19-20% of my business last year (*even less this year) so it hasn't affected me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way defending the prices of AT but if they have customers that pay them what they charge who are we to say otherwise?

Most companies in such sectors with a service operate in this manor.  Look at Football Clubs for example.  Ebay.  Amazon.  Nothing will happen with the prices if they have customers willing to pay them.  Try telling some dealers to stop and come out of AT.  It'll cost them thousands, some hundreds of thousands and more than likely shut them down.  I get you're drive and spirit, I do, and I'm not berating what you want to achieve but you're tackling a monster with a huge axe like an ant with a twig.

[Hugh Jardon 0]

They do say they are transparent and add value! I think they just exploit any oportunity to get as much out of their customers as possible and their is no long term customer loyalty. Arthur time to get the MTAU back on the case.