Taxing a stock vehicle

[Beautiful South Martin 24]

Got an old Nissan X Trail in swop and as the Heidi Ho is forecast next week I was thinking about running it. If I tax it on a monthly basis and use it for a couple of weeks then cancel it does it

effect the amount of keepers and will it cause problems when I actually tax it for the next new keeper.

Sure this will have been posted before just hoping someone could confirm please.

[BHM 994]

Don’t you have trade plates? 

[Rory RSC 596]

Just trade plate it giving it an extended test drive or alternatively tax it on the green slip on a direct debit and cancel the direct debit once you stop using it. Causes no problems for the next owner to tax it.

[trade vet 704]

1 hour ago, BHM said:

Don’t you have trade plates? 

Unless things have changed,you can get pulled for using trade plates after 6pm,you have to prove they are being used in the course of your business.I once got a ticket for unattended parking with trade plates outside a punters house !  It took time and trouble to challenge it and have it dropped.

[whitestone679231 113]

I usually tax on direct debit using green slip then cancel direct debit when I sell car, no doubt it is not the way to do it but at least it is taxed and doesn't put another name in book.

[NOACROSS 414]

I just use something different each week or so and use trade plates.  Been doing it for ages.  Usually one of the fleet of german rubbish diesels that won't shift. 

Plus it seems to stop them pooping themselves (which they inevitably do if they just sit on the forecourt)

[trade vet 704]

8 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

I just use something different each week or so and use trade plates.  Been doing it for ages.  Usually one of the fleet of german rubbish diesels that won't shift. 

Plus it seems to stop them pooping themselves (which they inevitably do if they just sit on the forecourt)

I take it,you are not a Ltd company..?

[MGM 11]

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

Unless things have changed,you can get pulled for using trade plates after 6pm,you have to prove they are being used in the course of your business.I once got a ticket for unattended parking with trade plates outside a punters house !  It took time and trouble to challenge it and have it dropped.

Where on earth does it say you can get pulled for using trade plates after 6pm? What’s the earliest time you can use them in a morning? I really do despair sometimes, if they are being used for a trade purpose then it doesn’t matter whether it’s 1 o clock, 6 o clock or 12 o clock you are legal. If you get a pull and say something idiotic like oh I’m just picking the wife / kids / dog / budgie up then yes you will get a b0llocking or a fine. PS I am sure the police don’t have to wait until 6pm to give you a tug!

[russp 10]

12 minutes ago, MGM said:

Where on earth does it say you can get pulled for using trade plates after 6pm? What’s the earliest time you can use them in a morning? I really do despair sometimes, if they are being used for a trade purpose then it doesn’t matter whether it’s 1 o clock, 6 o clock or 12 o clock you are legal. If you get a pull and say something idiotic like oh I’m just picking the wife / kids / dog / budgie up then yes you will get a b0llocking or a fine. PS I am sure the police don’t have to wait until 6pm to give you a tug!

Never heard of that either

[Earunder 69]

Never been pulled over for using trade plates out of hours.  As long as the car is insured for personal use and you are named under your motor trade policy you should fine IMO.

[trade vet 704]

2 hours ago, MGM said:

Where on earth does it say you can get pulled for using trade plates after 6pm? What’s the earliest time you can use them in a morning? I really do despair sometimes, if they are being used for a trade purpose then it doesn’t matter whether it’s 1 o clock, 6 o clock or 12 o clock you are legal. If you get a pull and say something idiotic like oh I’m just picking the wife / kids / dog / budgie up then yes you will get a b0llocking or a fine. PS I am sure the police don’t have to wait until 6pm to give you a tug!

 

2 hours ago, russp said:

Never heard of that either

Your right ,sorry,there has never been any 6pm law ,but we always understood that after 6pm there was always a chance you might be pulled on suspicion of ‘ misuse of trade plates’ and it has happened to me.When I got a ticket,it was midday ! I have used trade plates at all times of night after collecting from far away auctions.A mate of mine uses them all the time without being pulled,I have been stopped several times but have been able to provide proof of business use.

[NOACROSS 414]

25 minutes ago, tradex said:

Had a tug before Christmas 2016 because the car was on trade plates and it was 8pm. Collected a car from the painters ready for morning prep'.

The copper was adamant they couldn't be used in the hours of darkness....them plates do make one a target.

He needs to read this the fool (The Copper not Tradex ;0):

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/674043/vtl301g-guidance-notes.pdf

Edited February 24, 2018 by NOACROSS

[trade vet 704]

25 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

He needs to read this the fool (The Copper not Tradex ;0):

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/674043/vtl301g-guidance-notes.pdf

Thank you Noacross,we should all read that.So if you are caught taking a car home on trade plates,the way I read that,you could be liable to a maximum penalty of 2 years imprisonment or a £5000 fine for abuse of the trade licence ! 

[Dan W 57]

 

4. Display of trade plates

A trade plate:

• must be displayed on a vehicle as long as it is visible and vertical on both the front and rear (rear only for motorcycles)

• cannot be displayed inside a vehicle ........ ?

Oh must admit I have been doing it wrong for the last 10 years then ours is just inside the windscreen and rear window, never been stopped on this.

[NOACROSS 414]

Ha. Yes I guess so.  Luckily the three miles I'm going home testing a car I'm taking it to the auto electrician's for an A/C re-gas in the morning, or showing it to a customer or it's just had an EML on that now needs drivin... the list is endless. ;0)

I have the trusty old CRV at home to actually use at other times.

Last time I left a late ML on the forecourt a month, it cost me £850 at Mercedes to get working again. German crap...

...anyway- is anybody selling anything today or is it just me having too much time on my hands?

3 minutes ago, Dan W said:

 

4. Display of trade plates

A trade plate:

• must be displayed on a vehicle as long as it is visible and vertical on both the front and rear (rear only for motorcycles)

• cannot be displayed inside a vehicle ........ ?

Oh must admit I have been doing it wrong for the last 10 years then ours is just inside the windscreen and rear window, never been stopped on this.

Yeah - we've mentioned this before . Displayed vertically is hilarious.  Idiots. I have a multi fit kit to the trade plates so can often clip on below the numberplates,but I must admit- I tend to just stick them to the front and back windows with suckers.

We're very rural and I can't remember the last time I even saw a police car.  Just the odd 'Speed Awareness Course filler' vans occasionally.

[Dan W 57]

42 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

Ha. Yes I guess so.  Luckily the three miles I'm going home testing a car I'm taking it to the auto electrician's for an A/C re-gas in the morning, or showing it to a customer or it's just had an EML on that now needs drivin... the list is endless. ;0)

I have the trusty old CRV at home to actually use at other times.

Last time I left a late ML on the forecourt a month, it cost me £850 at Mercedes to get working again. German crap...

...anyway- is anybody selling anything today or is it just me having too much time on my hands?

Yeah - we've mentioned this before . Displayed vertically is hilarious.  Idiots. I have a multi fit kit to the trade plates so can often clip on below the numberplates,but I must admit- I tend to just stick them to the front and back windows with suckers.

We're very rural and I can't remember the last time I even saw a police car.  Just the odd 'Speed Awareness Course filler' vans occasionally.

Quiet day here also, no customers so just been dicking about on autotrader and dealer auction, I guess it comes down to a jobsworth police officer and if he has nothing to do and wants to annoy us sales people.

[NOACROSS 414]

V. true. Imagine not being able to do any demos in the dark! 

[trade vet 704]

Great stuff ! It is now probably impossible to prosecute for misuse of trade plates if you have to display them visibly and vertically on the outside of the car or motor cycle.You can imagine some defence solicitor in court handing some plates to  the police officer and asking them to demonstrate how to display them on his Porsche.......So just use your plates anywhere,BHM is right.

 

[have a word with the wife 299]

The reality is that ANPR cameras cannot detect a Trade Plate that is behind glass, i.e. on the dash-board or back parcel shelf of a car. Therefore the only reading the camera receives is that of the original registration plate of the vehicle, which most likely indicates the car is either SORN or ‘in trade’ in a dealer stock, thus the dealer receiving a fine for not having a licenced vehicle on the road.

After further discussions the DVLA have said that as long as a Trade Plate is visible anywhere on the exterior of the front and rear of the vehicle they will accept that as legal.  If the camera cannot see a Trade Plate on the exterior they will prosecute and we have already heard of cases of enforcement by the DVLA, and in one case the threat of withdrawing Trade Plates from a dealership for improper use/display.

Difficult as it is to fit these plates to some models of cars, we would ask all dealer management to let their drivers, testers and salesmen know it is imperative to use Trade Plates on the exterior of the vehicle to avoid penalties or worse.

[metcars 397]

I still see a lot of guys driving on trade plates where they have attempted to cover the actual number plates. In fact this morning I was following a 'newish' white golf with the plates 'removed from the car' and a trade plate in the back window?

[justlooking 48]

4 hours ago, have a word with the wife said:

The reality is that ANPR cameras cannot detect a Trade Plate that is behind glass, i.e. on the dash-board or back parcel shelf of a car. Therefore the only reading the camera receives is that of the original registration plate of the vehicle, which most likely indicates the car is either SORN or ‘in trade’ in a dealer stock, thus the dealer receiving a fine for not having a licenced vehicle on the road.

After further discussions the DVLA have said that as long as a Trade Plate is visible anywhere on the exterior of the front and rear of the vehicle they will accept that as legal.  If the camera cannot see a Trade Plate on the exterior they will prosecute and we have already heard of cases of enforcement by the DVLA, and in one case the threat of withdrawing Trade Plates from a dealership for improper use/display.

Difficult as it is to fit these plates to some models of cars, we would ask all dealer management to let their drivers, testers and salesmen know it is imperative to use Trade Plates on the exterior of the vehicle to avoid penalties or worse.

we tried this for a few months until the suckers were no longer effective and we kept losing the plates halfway down the A337!

Maybe we should get those black rubber hangers that go over the rear windscreen wiper arm?

What's stopping an ANPR camera picking up the original plate versus the one hung over the rear wiper arm?

With any exterior plate, you'll always run the risk of some scrote knicking them at the lights.

[Phil 1]

I taxed a stock vehicle for a week with monthly debits in July. I notified the DVLA using their online service to tell them I'd then sold the car (July 31st). Seems they didn't get this because they debited me the next month (Aug). I thought, well, their literature says it can take 6-8 weeks to process a V5 so I left it. Got charged again the next month (Sept), so I wrote to them and found out they knew nothing of me ever having the vehicle (mid Oct). So they told me to fill in a V62 to put me down as an owner so I could get a refund of the tax debits. Got billed again in Nov even though they know I no longer had the car. They wrote back saying "there is no legal provision to backdate a refund payment.... The issue of refunds of vehicle tax is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 and the Road Vehciles Regulations 2002. Section 19 of the Act provides for the specific calculation equal to one-twelfth of the annual rate of duty, which is unexpired when refund condition is satisfied. The refund condition is satisfied when the notification is received by the DVLA."

So how can they say, wait for 8 weeks for us to process your V5... while we take out your monthly payments... and then refuse to refund you!

I think I can get round their incompetence by using the direct debit guarantee and claiming it back that way.

[have a word with the wife 299]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

I taxed a stock vehicle for a week with monthly debits in July. I notified the DVLA using their online service to tell them I'd then sold the car (July 31st). Seems they didn't get this because they debited me the next month (Aug). I thought, well, their literature says it can take 6-8 weeks to process a V5 so I left it. Got charged again the next month (Sept), so I wrote to them and found out they knew nothing of me ever having the vehicle (mid Oct). So they told me to fill in a V62 to put me down as an owner so I could get a refund of the tax debits. Got billed again in Nov even though they know I no longer had the car. They wrote back saying "there is no legal provision to backdate a refund payment.... The issue of refunds of vehicle tax is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 and the Road Vehciles Regulations 2002. Section 19 of the Act provides for the specific calculation equal to one-twelfth of the annual rate of duty, which is unexpired when refund condition is satisfied. The refund condition is satisfied when the notification is received by the DVLA."

So how can they say, wait for 8 weeks for us to process your V5... while we take out your monthly payments... and then refuse to refund you!

I think I can get round their incompetence by using the direct debit guarantee and claiming it back that way.

sounds like you taxed it on green slip, so any refund would have gone to previous owner, you applied [v62] for a logbook in oct despite selling the car in july, that would create big problems for the current keeper, who, now maybe hasnt got a taxed car, and yet simply didnt check your email for the transaction id number, sorry, but no sympathy, and its not 8 weeks .

[Arfur Dealy 823]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

I taxed a stock vehicle for a week with monthly debits in July. I notified the DVLA using their online service to tell them I'd then sold the car (July 31st). Seems they didn't get this because they debited me the next month (Aug). I thought, well, their literature says it can take 6-8 weeks to process a V5 so I left it. Got charged again the next month (Sept), so I wrote to them and found out they knew nothing of me ever having the vehicle (mid Oct). So they told me to fill in a V62 to put me down as an owner so I could get a refund of the tax debits. Got billed again in Nov even though they know I no longer had the car. They wrote back saying "there is no legal provision to backdate a refund payment.... The issue of refunds of vehicle tax is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 and the Road Vehciles Regulations 2002. Section 19 of the Act provides for the specific calculation equal to one-twelfth of the annual rate of duty, which is unexpired when refund condition is satisfied. The refund condition is satisfied when the notification is received by the DVLA."

So how can they say, wait for 8 weeks for us to process your V5... while we take out your monthly payments... and then refuse to refund you!

I think I can get round their incompetence by using the direct debit guarantee and claiming it back that way.

You tax it on DD as a monthly rent. Stop it when sold...

[BHM 994]

MODERATOR, please move this to mumsnet.