Referendum

[GreenGiant 287]

Do we want a thread about the referendum, or is there a danger it will just end up as a dreary, shouty thing, like all the other debates?

I suspect there are many conflicting views amongst us, but are we bothered enough to share them?

[TDB 31]

Yes GG.....OUT!

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

IN

Also anyone over the age of 60 shouldn't be allowed to vote as they tend to hold the most deep seated bigoted views and have little care for the mess they leave younger generation. Can't build house's here, no windfarms there, the list goes on!!!

 

[Steve92 80]

Out, I don't think the out campaign have done themselves many favours as everything seems to be focused around immigration or at least thats the way the media portrays it. They seemed to be depicted as the bad guys, however it seems all of the bullying tactics from the current leaders goes un-noticed. They are basically threatening people if they vote out everything is going to increase in cost. 

How do they know that ? nobody knows, the only thing for sure is if we do vote out Mr Cameron will use it as a convenient excuse to up the cost of living.

I think yesterdays paper said something like the average shopping bill will increase by £550 a year, that just shows how much we import. Maybe if we give our farmers and fisherman a chance we can produce more within the UK and become self sufficient and create more jobs. I don't really have an issue with EU immigration, just as many people come in as go (well almost) but the majority of those coming from the EU are hard working (who wants to pick vegetables in a field or wash cars in December) and deserve the work.

The EU has done good things for workers rights, however for employers its bloody hard work to sack someone thats lazy and crap at their job. I think more is to come from the EU and us leaving could be the beginning of the end of it, nobody with the exception of ourselves and Germany are very secure, Italy, Spain, Greece are all in Financial meltdown because of the Euro.

One other thing that is annoying is the murder of Jo Cox, sad though it is other people are taken away from there loved ones all the time but none get the publicity that this case does, i wonder if the murderer had been an IS fanatic would the same publicity be given to it ? 

People should vote on what they want and not based on immigration as thats a separate issue from outside the EU, i don't like Farage but i'm not voting for him, i'm voting about Europe, the same as if I wanted to stay, it wouldn't be because I liked Cameron or his views but because i believed it was the right thing to do.

We import more than we export but if people think Audi or BMW are going to stop selling to the UK and pull out then they are mistaken, if they put import duties up then so should we. Besides a drop in new car sales and people switching to used cars would be welcome.

 

 

[James Bush 95]

IN

[SC Derby 259]

Out for me, nothing to do with immigration but would just like to see us make decisions here in the UK by the people we have elected and not in Brussels by people we haven't.

[justina3 518]

so much spin around i am still 50/50 

[sparky 274]

45 minutes ago, Gavin@Rousdon said:

IN

Also anyone over the age of 60 shouldn't be allowed to vote as they tend to hold the most deep seated bigoted views and have little care for the mess they leave younger generation. Can't build house's here, no windfarms there, the list goes on!!!

 

This.

I used to love a bit of Boris on have a got news for you but the very sight and sound of him now makes me combust like a Vauxhall heater blower. There has been far too much rhetoric coming from the out camp for my liking.

Things are far from perfect now but I fear they could be a lot worse, so I'm in the better the devil you know camp and have voted to remain.

[Rosemotors 31]

IN

For so many reasons, not least the amount of legislation and regulation that would have to be undone and redone. That'd take 20 odd years of Parliament's time. Time which could be used better.

Plus the leading OUT campaigners are generally the people I despise the most in Politics.

[Cornish Guy 45]

Would I vote in to join? No

We are in though, and I agree, that the mess that we will be in to extract ourselves if the vote is out could be huge.

 

 

[It's me 615]

out

because im old enough to have a real reason

these people who really think their houses are going to devalue by 20% need to start reading real newspapers

for those that dont understand where the eu is going i suggest they dont vote at all

 

hows that

[Econimotor 15]

2 hours ago, Gavin@Rousdon said:

IN

Also anyone over the age of 60 shouldn't be allowed to vote as they tend to hold the most deep seated bigoted views and have little care for the mess they leave younger generation. Can't build house's here, no windfarms there, the list goes on!!!

 

Oi!!! GAVIN I am over 60 you young upstart, LOL, No you have not made me angry.

I would build houses for our kids where they need them and want them, in the villages they grew up in and on the green belt. I love wind farms and lived by them in Cornwall with no problems. I would also make all farmers have solar panels on their barns. Also I am not afraid of change. I also help the younger generation if I can, however they want to run before they can walk.

I like the europeans and hold the Polish in high regard. The europeans have done our service industry the world of good. At least we get served with a smile now and they put your food in front of you pleasantly unlike a young brit who just slams the plate down and grunts.

One of the best holidays I ever had was in, WAIT FOR IT,  Germany they were most welcoming and really pleased that we had gone for a holiday in their country.

However I do believe that the European diktats must and should be held accountable and that they should also be elected.

This apple could fall either side of the fence but at the moment the wind is blowing in the direction of out of the garden. Its not all doom and gloom.

 

[GreenGiant 287]

Whilst I'm not actually committed either way, a couple of questions remain unanswered in my eyes. (With apologies for the rambling)

Regarding Remain:

The Prime Minister, head of the IMF, bankers, industrialists, other politicians et al have scared the poop out of us with the warnings about the dangers of leaving. If leaving is going to be such a catastrophe economically, financially, politically, for us as individuals, families, employers, employees etc etc, why is it even in question? If we were debating going to war (again), our opinion would be (has been) irrelevant, so what is the point of elected representatives if the first REALLY important decision in yonks can't be made by them?

And why give the decision to poorly-educated, ill-informed, easily-swayed tabloid readers? Isn't that just asking for a bad result?

Regarding Leave: 

How long would any changes actually take to make? We aren't going to just shut the tunnel, pull up the anchor and float off into the Atlantic, never mind how attractive it might sound, especially when you think about it... 

Will what is left of the EU impose tariffs or massive import/export charges on goods to and from the UK? Will they insist on free movement of people as a condition of continuing trade agreements? If so, what actual difference will there be to today, other than our total inability to change anything because we won't have a say?

Workers rights, safety of products you purchase, ability to retire to the sun if you wish and get free healthcare out there (how many Brits have retired to Spain and take advantage of this, even though Spain can't afford it?); All achieved because of EU membership. 

Nothing to do with human rights has any place in the discussion, as it outside the remit of the EU.

Whilst we are a united group, it is unlikely that we will be in serious conflict with the others and those that can afford to will look after those who can't. If these things don't interest you, they should.

I heard this somewhere: leaving would be like being in a nightclub with your mates when one of them says " it's crap in here, let's go somewhere else." So you all go outside, giving the doormen some verbal on the way out. Then you realise there is actually nowhere else to go and now you can't get back in. You all end up in a kebab shop at 3 in the morning, arguing about whose fault it was.

What happens to all the public figures that back the wrong horse in this race? General election immediately?

So I still don't know.

[betginge 73]

Personally I Think either option is a disaster.

What we needed was a brake on the freedom of movement of people or a permit system on freedom of labour, Cameron was beaten down by the german chancellor. what we should of had was a renegotiation that would kill the immigration woes, And they are genuine concerns which I also share on immigration, but he failed to achieve this.

However looking at it from a business point of view, 

1. More immigration and movement means the potential for more who need vehicles.

 2. If we do vote out, it will cause issues with financial services within the single market including firms who will pull out of lending. Remember firms such as Deutsche Bank invest big sums of money into uk based lenders for motor finance. 

Do not think that nothing will change if we leave the Eu for the motor trade, there will be repercussions.

Maybe we can get a good deal out of the eu, maybe we can become a nimple country and have it both ways with the rest of the world while trading with Europe, But this is a big IF, A Gamble.  

 

The question is Do we take that Gamble ? 

[Jack Regan 116]

I voted out ...... Cause I like Boris Johnsons hair.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Jack Regan

[Cornish Guy 45]

It's going to be an interesting night!

[bestprice4cash 20]

On 22/06/2016 at 11:14 AM, Gavin@Rousdon said:

IN

Also anyone over the age of 60 shouldn't be allowed to vote as they tend to hold the most deep seated bigoted views and have little care for the mess they leave younger generation. Can't build house's here, no windfarms there, the list goes on!!!

 

I'm a long way away from 60  but I'm OUT.     What I find really irritating is the almost constant insinuation from people on the IN side that anyone voting leave must be bigoted, racist or whatever.   3rd post in on this thread and already it has happened.  

I'm certainly not bigoted but I do feel by being part of the EU we have to give up too many powers that should be in the hands of our politicians and while immigration is not top of my list it is certainly true that we don't have a choice over EU immigration while we are part of this club.  I also feel voting leave will trigger a huge shift in British politics and business, yes some uncertainty and risk in the short time but in the long term I think it opens up a lot of opportunity for positive change. 

Having said that I think remain will win by a comfortable margin as so called "project fear" has been incredibly strong.  

This whole thing could have been avoided if we had been allowed a brake on immigration and if successive governments had done more to tackle the massive shortage of affordable housing (both private and council), school places in good schools, GP surgeries, etc.   Around my area they are infilling brownfield land with poor quality but highly expensive shoe box sized houses and not creating any additional infrastructure to support the community. 

 

[Max Branning 149]

in - out - in - out -

Shake it all about

[Steve92 80]

[GreenGiant 287]

Kebab anyone?

[Steve92 80]

Mmmm, mixed donner for me.