Trident

Hi chaps. I'm not a car dealer, and just lurk here out of interest, so apologies in advance if this is not allowed. What I am is a European competition lawyer, i.e. the area of law relevant to the Google case you are discussing. I thought I could maybe provide some insight. The Google case is not fundamentally about treating consumers unfairly; it's about a breach of the competition law prohibition against abusing a dominant position. The argument runs that Google is dominant in the market for Internet search, and should not be abusing their dominance in that market by favouring it's own services in a different but related market (the market for shopping comparison services) by placing Google Shopping first at the top of it's search results. Unfortunately the whistleblowing line isn't directly relevant, as it relates to cartels i.e. anticompetitive agreements between competitors. There are of course comparisons that can be drawn to AutoTrader. The first question is are they dominant - normally one would consider below 40% market share unlikely to be dominant, above 70% likely to be dominant, in between possibly dominant depending on the structure of the market. Instinctively I'd suggest that the market for dealer sales and private sales may be separate (very generally speaking the question would be whether a small but significant, say 5%, price increase by dealers would drive customers to private sales - if the answer is no, the markets are separate). If they are separate, it may be considered dominant, though more investigation would be needed. The question would then be are they abusing their dominance to the detriment of competition and ultimately to consumers by favouring sponsored adverts. I'd say this could be argued either way, but there is an argument there. I'd suggest if you wanted to tackle this, writing to the Competition and Markets Authority in the UK would be the best bet (though no harm in copying it to the European Commission), stating that you think there are competition concerns in this market that should be investigated by the CMA. They may open a market study. However the concerns expressed should not be the impact on dealers - it should be the negative impact on consumers (higher prices primarily through poorer competition between rival dealers). Hopefully insightful and hopefully allowed. Happy to answer any questions anonymously - this is not legal advice, just some friendly insights. Wow, thank you very much integroo, very interesting, never heard of the competitions and markets authority, sounds exactly the right avenue to pursue...

So, having heard about google's unfair practices and the monopoly on the market they have held, i couldn't help but compare their behaviour to Autotraders, have very briefly looked into the European Complaints Commission and look what i found: http://ec.europa.eu/competition/cartels/whistleblower/index.html Seems to me there are a few dealers who feel held to ransom by AT and i for one wouldn't mind being a whistlblower!! it might be an idea to create a standard letter that anyone who is interested could email across to them, who's is the chap who wrote the 'open letter', maybe he could be the author of it??... something needs to be done, and google was obviously investigated on the back of someone somewhere saying they had a complaint!! small acorns grow into big trees and all that!!!

Refund, less mileage useage at 40-50 pence per mile, you won't have a problem reselling it and the repairs will be in your full control. It just isn't worth the battle so soon after he has taken ownership. We also have it in the warranty that the vehicle is returned at customers expense.

we have a standard response to these types of questions... it is without words and looks something like this

I Would argue that all vehicles are 'high risk' isn't that why we have all these issues with CRA? (that's kind of my point!) but i see the angle you would read that from and i would ammend that sentence to read 'All vehicles.....'

ditto... crying....

Dear ... Unfortunately the warranty ran out on the 00/00/0000, as we prepare our vehicles to the highest standard, we can assure you that this fault was not present at the time of selling, it passed its multi point inspection (please see the pre delivery report) and also passed it's mot, with no advisories. Vehicles are inherently a high risk item to buy due solely to the many many components it is made from, all of which will have a degree of wear and tear after 8 years of service. In this instance we do not feel this to be a faulty part which can go back some 5 months as no complaint has been received which would point out this fault at the time of sale. It therefore does not form part of any warranty claim or any claim under your statutory rights through CRA 2015 as this is clearly a wear and tear issue. The vehicle is ready for collection upon full settlement of the invoice attached. Please note we have provided the recovery free of charge and to minimise the time you are without your vehicle attended within 2 hours of the initial call. We trust this now concludes the matter and look forward to seeing you back on the road. Love, hugs and best wishes, your local friendly garage mwah

You sold the car, you didn't give the guy the owners number and say 'speak to him' so your liable for the lot, refund and all i'm afraid, as you first mentioned you effectively bought the car off the guy once an agreement to sell was made between you and the buyer... If you are an agent, you are effectively introducing the buyer to the seller, the seller might give you a cut, but the buyer is under no illusion you have nothing to do with the sale, ie don't put it on your letter headed invoice, don't warrant yourself etc etc

newbies are fine if they have their eyes wide open, idiots asking things like what's the best car to buy... honestly??? however, tbh i would have thought the private lounge would be a more logical place to 'hang out' at least if a numpty arrives in their they have got their hands dirty just a little bit? happy to give any one a hand up, we all had it somewhere along the line, but this industry is riddled with wannabe's...

I think you got away lightly, we had an old guy who bought a vehicle off us, became a regular pop in for a chat kind of guy...over time he divulged that he spend his last penny buying the vehicle, which were his savings for his funeral expenses, his missus wasn't too chuffed with him, so what he is going to do is put it in the will that we buy it back to cover his funeral expenses... thoughts?

Spanners are in hand... thanks for help guys...

So, what a funny thread, now i was all in agreement up until Max Branning put his tu'penny's worth in, then i remember hearing about a guy who did exactly this with high end stuff, clever lad, by all accounts, he set up a website and advertised all sorts of high end cars, now i am talking high end cars! using the original dealers pictures and descriptions, when he got a 'bite' he would prop the customer to finance, get the deal all agreed, take a deposit, go to the company that owned the car and buy it... finish the deal off, take a massive finance commision, sit back and rub his hands together - no stock - loads of cash rolling in on everyone elses hard work... he was an ex footballer with capital!! he's done very well for himself and has his own high end stock and now just sources for clients - high end clients... started out as a bit of a leach but made it work...

Thanks... S and B what is an sva, never heard of that!! when i look at the log book section 7 to amend it doesn't ask for evidence like some of the other amendments!

We have taken in a part exchange van that has 3 extra seats fitted aftermarket in the back, the log book only states 3 seats, so we want to get the v5c ammended to show 6 seats, but as the vehicle is now in trade, do we have to put it in our name to get it ammended? or, can we send the ammendement off when we send off the log book in the new keepers name!? the worry doing that is the insurance will be for a 3 seater not a 6 seater... any advice? TIA...

I can only agree with betginge, if you are asking that question instead of being prepared to suck it and see like the rest of us i am afraid that unless you have an endless pot of gold and balls made of steel you will struggle, selling them is the easy bit, my best advise is to read this forum first, see for yourself how hard this industry is already and have the foresight to see how much worse it will get, good luck in your new venture...

It most certainly is, they know how to send a line out to catch a fish, trouble is they didn't realise they were poisoning the water from all the sewage their pumping out and killing off the little fish... quiet day today

After some opinions/guidance. We are FCA approved and in our ads, as advised by close, we advertise our starting rate as this " Finance from 4.9% flat APR, subject to acceptance" Can't see myself how this can be construed as misleading, it's a fact... Autotrader rang me yesterday to discuss this free finance tool they are doing, and said we have m isleading information in our ads that needs removing, all finance information needs to be through the finance calculator, when i questioned who's rules this broke is it FCA or Autotrader, she fluffed and said FCA and our advertising terms and conditions. So, if a customer uses the calculator surely it will be the rate of 4.9% which is our starting rate, but this will be 'subject to acceptance' im assuming, so how is it any different from what we say above... is this just AT trying to squeeze again?

As i understand it, if you 'sold' it to a business ie their business address is on the invoice, then it is business to business, otherwise it was sold to a private individual... business to business has completely different set of rules and if you have a strong set of docs for your warranty terms then that is what you/they a court goes by, or so i understand

We're with you MSP Motors, a really good April, nothing much for May at all, twidling our thumbs and drinking coffee!

I AM CURRENTLY SITTING ADMIRING A POSTER ON OUR WALL OF A BLOOMIN' GREAT OAK TREE, IT'S CAPTION... EVERY GREAT OAK TREE STARTED OUT AS A COUPLE OF NUTS WHO STOOD THEIR GROUND... We changed our AT package to be on the standard one as we just couldn't justify another increase this year, shockingly this means that we are only showing on desktop, our trade has dropped off ridiculously, although i understand most people are suffering the same plight, and reading the above only underlines what we already thought. AT are now clutching at straws to keeps the money rolling in, they are not simply an advertising platform for the trade, but a digital marketing mogul aimed at providing a return year on year to to it's shareholders, produced by sponsored advertising and listings it's business model is surely failing due to the unpopularity of it's product, joe bloggs can't sell a car on their site, traders can't fund the extortionate fees so the only way they have left is to bully anyone desperate enough to stay on board for fear their business will dry up altogether, which ultimately is now most of us, what i don't understand is why more of us don't just walk away, if all that is left on AT is the 'giants' Mr Bloggs will look elsewhere, he may go back and buy from them but at least he will look and hopefully see our stock in a vast quantity on other sites. Personally, we will be making that call, how can we justify spending any money with them and not having an equal opportunity with the big boys, monopolisation at it's worst and no modifying entity to put a stop to it, surely this is now down to us guys to take the plunge and ride out the interim rough period, because once AT has been kicked up the rear, surely it can only bring back a fairer playing field for all.

We don't do it anymore, but when we did, we offered them trade rate when it sold, that way it was a no risk car on the forecourt for trade money, worked ok, but as usual people now want you to do all the hard graft and reap all the rewards from it...

I would refund, less 50p per mile, check the vehicle over and resell, chances are it's halfords bs and someone else will buy it, you shouldnt be out of pocket, it will just take time to turn it round again, customers like this aren't worth bothering with, if you argue, you lose sleep and gain grey hairs, so long as he has the log book in hand, get him to bring it back.

Count yourselves lucky, we have 'actual' visitors who come in for a 'chat' just because the sales guy is 'such a nice lad' ffs, must get on....

Oooh controversial, i have learnt the other way round, fliippin' fords and mini's, sick of the sight of them, weird colours and specs, fly... wanna swop???!!!???

I'm with you Max, you can search ebay so much easier than AT!! gone are the days when customers uniquely use AT, it might be their first stop, but they will still go round the houses and search other sites...