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I'm going to open a can of worms again and say. This is one Topic which should be in the Secret Room. Google CRA and customer may land here

Warranties are neither here nor there. 3 months, 2 weeks, a year, it means nothing really. They are jut insurance policies. Example, if you offer a 3 month warranty and after 4 months something catastrophic happens, and it’s nothing to do with user error or wear and tear, you are in the chair. Up to 6 months and you are in the chair. I’m talking about legalities here, not smoke and mirrors of warranties. It’s subjective as said above but as an example, a 6 year old Car with 60k on and the gearbox is shagged, 4 months into ownership, you’re losing in court imo. 14 year old car, 120k, shagged gearbox, 4 months into ownership, you’ve got a great chance of winning that one on the basis of the CRA excluding wear and tear. The pdi is specifically taking away the Billy’s right to refund within 30 days, meaning if the fault isn’t present at the POS then it has developed and the punter can’t get a refund only a repair. Past 30 days the pdi is neither here nor there as you have to provide a fix if it isn’t a wear and tear fault. Warranties are insurance products. Self funded protect the customer (even though they are protected) and third party ones protect you as well. Smoke and mirrors. Warranties and lawful rights are two separate things. Now I offer 3 months on 10 year old cars or lower. After 4 months I can tell a customer to do one as it’s past their warranty period but legally I know that it’s not as simple as that but do they know? Maybe not. Smoke and mirrors. I offer no warranty on older cars. After 6 weeks a fault occurs. Sorry mr customer no warranty. I know it’s not as simple as that but do they? Smoke and mirrors. It’s not my job to educate them on the CRA. It’s my job to educate myself.

Yes, I stood my ground and won. Until you’ve wasted a year of your lifecycle you simply won’t appreciate how it takes over. It’s made me so much more wiser. Not scared to say no.....

Why ? 3k is pocket money. It’s a banger, it cost a 20th if it’s original price. It’s 14 year old.

I think a few contributors need a reminder

Dear Mr Customer, the CRA2015 is designed to protect buyers and sellers equally. Wear and tear is specifically excluded. As the owner of a 14 year old BMW (11 years past it’s warranty) you should expect wear and tear. It is your responsibility for the repair and maintenance of your vehicle. OkayDokay, if you give an inch they’ll take a mile. Stonewall them. The way I look at it is very simple.... If the broken or worn part has been used many years past the manufacturers guaranteed period then quite simply it’s “wear n tear”

I have no fear of the courts or customers. But then I feel that I have always been honest and fair. You cannot be weak. You can and should be fair and reasonable, but if you are weak you will get shafted. If you feel you are right stand your ground. Most people will back off.

Exactly. We are not offering the same guarantee as the manufacturer. 3 years Max on average from new FFS ! it’s 14 years old, did the buyer purchase a warranty to specifically cover a gearbox fault on his 14 year old car ? No, so why should you pay for it to be repaired ?

No, it doesn’t depend. If you can’t prove it wasn’t there at the POS the consumer has a strong case but it doesn’t mean you have to replace a gearbox on a car worth less than the gearbox itself. Again, this is a grey area made so because the CRA is meant to be a black and white law and it’s applied to something that has thousands of different components. It’s bollocks, frankly but there you go.

Consumer Rights Excerpt Between 30 days and 6 months If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise. Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund. In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

Mark, like me and I daresay most on here, Rory has already stated this, we would do all we could to help a customer assuming they are playing the game. I think in this instance the OP is asking what he HAS to do, not what he COULD do. Personally i’d be digging my heels in on this one. A car half the age and mileage i’d be less sure of taking my chances through the courts.

Portfolio display on line will have everything you need. all our fourcourt stock are stickered up to the max shoot me now.

Thanks for all the replies to everyone. to add a few facts - 3 month warranty with third party warranty company was included - but the claim limit is £1500. Customer has been told new gearbox required at £2500 by local garage, however it’s in daily use with gearbox cog sign warning on display. Customer is demanding refund of car or repair. We are already Lawgistics members and they are familiar with the case and it’s ongoing with them issuing correspondence. What I hate about this game, is a punter thinks a £200 car should come with the same rights as a £5K car. If you choose to buy a car nearinng the end of its life - how can a dealer be held responsible for 6 months to shell out for any new faults - which is actually 6 years according to Lawgistics! I agree we need test cases. Selling used cars is harder than selling drugs or guns - the same rights on a decade old motor as a new kettle from Argos is just insane. Apparently a hot topic! Pleased to stir some conversation on the topic - there needs to be clarification on what we legally are obliged to do. Don’t get me wrong - we do lots as goodwill for customers, but running and maintaining the car for them I just think is a piss take.

A 14 year old car and 120,000 miles? Sorry, with due respect, your mention earlier about how you’d fix a car within 3 months cos that’s how long your warranty is shows that you don’t have quite the grasp of this subject as you think you might.

In fairness to Lawgistics, they are a business. They offer a shit load of free advice bearing this in mind. It’s not fair on their paying members if they pop up every time and give away advice people pay for.

I offer a warranty simply because people always ask “does it have a warranty” and never ask “do you stand by your obligations under the CRA?” Warranties are smoke and mirrors and a sales tool. I get why you don’t offer them Si, I agree with you entirely and I know you agree with what i’m saying here. Personally I find it just saves the CRA conversation. “Does it have a warranty?” ”Yes mr customer rest assured you’re covered” Thats all I need to tell them, they are already covered they just don’t know it. The reality is for £15 per unit, Lawgistics provide me with a glossy brochure and take the call to determine whether the onus is on me or the punter. £15 well spent.

Simple answer is do not offer a warranty, I don’t, I never have and I tell every billy why, because I believe most of the time they aren’t worth the paper they are written on, especially on older cars way past the period the manufacturer was prepared to guarantee it. This is pertinent because warranty’s generally don’t cover wear n tear and neither does the CRA. However, Mr Customer there are a few good ones out there and there is nothing wrong in you purchasing your own insurance if you want coverage over and above. Ill be honest, it is very rare I pay a penny after thirty days.

See I disagree - the warranty is valid for 3 months or 3k. IMO the owner deserves the cars warranty to be validated regardless whether the car is work a quid or a hundred grand. Otherwise, what’s the point in doing what we do, what value do we add? Caveat - except when you have done a deal with Billy for a sold as is and he is renaging on the deal, i.e wanting his cake and eating it. Again, so what whether it was there before or not and IMO, even a clutch isn’t a wear n tear item within my warranty period (not sure what else could even be argued as wear n tear in a gearbox). I think it is completely reasonable for a customer to expect his gearbox to last throughout the warranty, regardless whether it is a wear and tear item or not.

Who cares whether the fault was there at POS or developed since purchase? Of course the fault developed since purchase, that's the whole point of a warranty and probably the reason a customer bought from a dealer instead of chancing their luck by buying privately. Is it just me, as responsible dealers (whom most here seem to be) - we ensure there are no faults at POS (unless noted and customer informed) and we honour our warranties within 3 months (or whatever term we agree). Why are we talking about getting out of fixing things (within warranty). It might be a cheap car but to some people, spending £2k is the equivalent to some of us spending £20k.

It's great for what I call "digital hoovering". When you've valeted a car and taken your photos then you look at a photo and see a mark on the trim you've missed you can just remove it without having to go back outside (when it's probably raining by now) to take another photo. We never use the editing software to misrepresent the cars condition, just to make life easier for ourselves.

Yep! Rather than ‘I just wanna have a quick look! I’m only local! I need to see if it’s this BMW X5 I want, or the Citroen C1 I saw yesterday!’

Agreed, the first question “is it still for sale?” Second question “how do I pay the deposit?” ending with.... I loved your video Simon That is exactly how it should happen

1975?

Remember, punters don’t know you’ve painted it so won’t be staring at it like you looking for imperfections & colour matches. Tbh as long as it’s some shade of black 95% of punters won’t notice.