Rvmmco 0 Posted January 21, 2020 Good evening all, I know these topics have been covered before on here, but i have scenario, that i would like to pass by you for advice. I have sought some legal advice, which suggests i am in the right, but i'm not entirely sure, and the result could be court action. The scenario is as follows......... Vehicle sold on ebay, via auction, the car went to the highest bidder (i lost money on the car, but that is irrelevant) Car was sold as requiring work, and no MOT (ex police car needed an interior and cosmetic damage repaired). Mechanically it drove as it should. The winning bidder was well aware of this, and confirmed it was for his food kitchen business, and purchased through his ebay business account. The buyer signed our trade invoice and drove the car some 200 miles back to Birmingham with no Tax or MOT, and it passed an MOT the next day following a fix to the hazard light switch which was loose. 2 days later the car developed an ABS fault and will not start, and is now requesting 500 pounds to fix the fault, and is sat at a Smiths Ford specialist in Birmingham where he took it for diagnosis. The quote states a single flat price to fix the problem using a second hand module. The vehicle has a retail value of £5080.00 and a trade value of £3290.00. I sold the vehicle for £2100.00 in an open auction, and was clearly below its retail value. legal response: He meets the definition of a business (not a consumer) in my view. His view seems to be that this was a consumer transaction, i.e. that you are not a business trader and he was not purchasing the vehicle for his trade/business/craft/or profession. Your trade sale invoice is clear in that you operated as a business. He also purchased the vehicle on his business seller's account and told you he intended to use is for his food kitchen business - so for his trade. This is a B2B contract Response from buyer: "Good MorningFurther to the email yesterday I’m been told to clarify as there was no details for me to attend the auction to bid in person for the purchase of the Vehicle this therefore is a Consumer Contract" legal response: I disagree, ebay allows businesses to use the auction format to buy. He still meets the definition of a business and so do you. I'm lost folks. I have been trading for a year now, built up a good reputation, but not sure how to handle this, without being further out of pocket. Any help or advice would be truly appreciated. thanks Joe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 702 Posted January 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, Rvmmco said: Good evening all, I know these topics have been covered before on here, but i have scenario, that i would like to pass by you for advice. I have sought some legal advice, which suggests i am in the right, but i'm not entirely sure, and the result could be court action. The scenario is as follows......... Vehicle sold on ebay, via auction, the car went to the highest bidder (i lost money on the car, but that is irrelevant) Car was sold as requiring work, and no MOT (ex police car needed an interior and cosmetic damage repaired). Mechanically it drove as it should. The winning bidder was well aware of this, and confirmed it was for his food kitchen business, and purchased through his ebay business account. The buyer signed our trade invoice and drove the car some 200 miles back to Birmingham with no Tax or MOT, and it passed an MOT the next day following a fix to the hazard light switch which was loose. 2 days later the car developed an ABS fault and will not start, and is now requesting 500 pounds to fix the fault, and is sat at a Smiths Ford specialist in Birmingham where he took it for diagnosis. The quote states a single flat price to fix the problem using a second hand module. The vehicle has a retail value of £5080.00 and a trade value of £3290.00. I sold the vehicle for £2100.00 in an open auction, and was clearly below its retail value. legal response: He meets the definition of a business (not a consumer) in my view. His view seems to be that this was a consumer transaction, i.e. that you are not a business trader and he was not purchasing the vehicle for his trade/business/craft/or profession. Your trade sale invoice is clear in that you operated as a business. He also purchased the vehicle on his business seller's account and told you he intended to use is for his food kitchen business - so for his trade. This is a B2B contract Response from buyer: "Good MorningFurther to the email yesterday I’m been told to clarify as there was no details for me to attend the auction to bid in person for the purchase of the Vehicle this therefore is a Consumer Contract" legal response: I disagree, ebay allows businesses to use the auction format to buy. He still meets the definition of a business and so do you. I'm lost folks. I have been trading for a year now, built up a good reputation, but not sure how to handle this, without being further out of pocket. Any help or advice would be truly appreciated. thanks Joe BTB,advertised needing work,very low price.He hasn’t got a leg to stand on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EPV 631 Posted January 22, 2020 You’ve taken legal advice. All you’ll get on here is opinions (and some very good ones) but you have done the right thing. I agree with what your legal advisors have said. It’s clearly b2b. I’d be happy to go long haul on this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rvmmco 0 Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, EPV said: You’ve taken legal advice. All you’ll get on here is opinions (and some very good ones) but you have done the right thing. I agree with what your legal advisors have said. It’s clearly b2b. I’d be happy to go long haul on this. Thanks for the opinion. as always with these problems, its speaking to like minded people to weigh up the pros and cons of the situation. Buyers have a tendency to lie when getting their advice. Strangely the quote he has sent me is from a garage which was dissolved in October 2019, has no VAT number, no breakdown of the price, and is just a simple word document. So i am not entirely sure if what he has sent me is even real. Smiths Ford Invoice.docx Edited January 22, 2020 by Rvmmco Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JA Trader 58 Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rvmmco said: Thanks for the opinion. as always with these problems, its speaking to like minded people to weigh up the pros and cons of the situation. Buyers have a tendency to lie when getting their advice. Strangely the quote he has sent me is from a garage which was dissolved in October 2019, has no VAT number, no breakdown of the price, and is just a simple word document. So i am not entirely sure if what he has sent me is even real. Smiths Ford Invoice.docx 19.38 kB · 0 downloads Sorry thats not a real invoice. I know toddlers who can get a more convincing one put together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rvmmco 0 Posted January 22, 2020 Just now, JA Trader said: Sorry thats not a real invoice. I know toddlers who can get a more convincing one put together. I know, its pathetic, although it is only a quote, it does not meet a minimum standard in my opinion - my accountant certainly wouldn't be happy with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JA Trader 58 Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Rvmmco said: I know, its pathetic, although it is only a quote, it does not meet a minimum standard in my opinion - my accountant certainly wouldn't be happy with it. Doing some more digging her. Company dissolved in October but positive review left on google only 2 months ago...... Id call the garage and see if they can book you in for a cam belt on a fiesta or something similar like that. See if they are still operating at all. Maybe use a phone number your customer wouldn't remember in case there is something fishy going on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rvmmco 0 Posted January 22, 2020 good call, i'm thinking of driving the 200 miles to inspect the car tbh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JA Trader 58 Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rvmmco said: good call, i'm thinking of driving the 200 miles to inspect the car tbh Call his bluff and do it. Alternatively ask for another estimate ? 10 minutes ago, Rvmmco said: good call, i'm thinking of driving the 200 miles to inspect the car tbh Joe i have sent you a PM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
metcars 397 Posted January 22, 2020 43 minutes ago, Rvmmco said: good call, i'm thinking of driving the 200 miles to inspect the car tbh Surely billy will see that as an indication of your culpability? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EPV 631 Posted January 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, metcars said: Surely billy will see that as an indication of your culpability? Agreed. You should just tell the bloke it’s B2B and you’ll see him in court. End of. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrishowie 14 Posted January 22, 2020 What real workshop invoice states a storage fee? Plus it is a terrible fake anyway. Tell him your solicitors will be in contact and to go away Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BHM 994 Posted January 22, 2020 A bullshitter. Tell the man to fuck off, you’ll see him in court. PS. He has had the car MOTed. ABS is part of the MOT. This proves the part he’s claiming for wasn’t faulty prior to XX date therefore absolving you of any responsibility even if you had sold it as a retail sale. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highlinev8 28 Posted January 22, 2020 In my experience the more you engage, exchange emails and text etc, the more you encourage them. I wouldn't tell him to f-off or go see a solicitor, you just need to be clear from the start. "Sorry you are having buyers remorse but as we discussed it was a trade sale of a car for repairs which you inspected and accepted as seen, kind regards" After that I would ignore. You sold the car with a correct description and some dude thats only spending 2K on a car is not going legal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D&M 66 Posted January 22, 2020 Just looking at that invoice. What a joke! Seen more genuine 9 bob notes. Hope you call his bluff and catch him out. Buyers are getting worse and worse. Glad you've done everything right and have legal backing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattR 177 Posted January 23, 2020 On 1/22/2020 at 11:57 AM, EPV said: Agreed. You should just tell the bloke it’s B2B and you’ll see him in court. End of. As Above. Tempting as it may be to find out what is going on, that really isnt worth doing unless a court summons arrives. And even then, the facts are the facts. You are a business. He is a Business. The car was sold through a medium which permits that type of sale. It was clearly sold as spares or repairs. End of. This is the opinion of the legal advice you have sought. A short letter which is to the point is all that you (or your legal adviser) needs to send. Dont complicate it, just state the facts as they are. And state that any further correspondence will not be entertained unless it is by post. Do not respond to texts, emails etc, you will only encourage him!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony F 38 Posted January 23, 2020 What a pathetic excuse of an invoice/estimate. This bloke is trying is trying to have your pants down. Try calling Smiths Ford to ask if they object to a second opinion as you might have a mate passing through that area. I'll bet the car isn't even at their premises and thats if they have even see it all. If they know nothing about the car, maybe email them a copy of inv. Good luck anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.T 39 Posted January 23, 2020 Hahaha Smiths 'Ford' my arse, have you looked at the cars for sale? That's no Ford dealer, and I'm surprised they've been able to get away with it? https://smithsford.co.uk/used-cars-for-sale/ Have a look at where they are on Google Earth, it's a small garage behind a row of shops!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casper 272 Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, J.T said: Hahaha Smiths 'Ford' my arse, have you looked at the cars for sale? That's no Ford dealer, and I'm surprised they've been able to get away with it? https://smithsford.co.uk/used-cars-for-sale/ Have a look at where they are on Google Earth, it's a small garage behind a row of shops!! I agree Edited January 24, 2020 by Casper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halfpenny 114 Posted January 24, 2020 The whole story is a bit odd.... 'Smiths Ford' is not a franchised Ford dealer - its a backstreet outfit and you'll find the company was dissolved last year. The guy who ran it has a bit of a 'track record' shall we say..... Call the buyers bluff...'no further communications will be entered into...'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JA Trader 58 Posted January 24, 2020 13 hours ago, J.T said: https://smithsford.co.uk/used-cars-for-sale/ HANG ON. Who stocks a few sub 5k fords and then has a random Bentley for £23k advertised .......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anglo9 26 Posted January 24, 2020 46 minutes ago, JA Trader said: HANG ON. Who stocks a few sub 5k fords and then has a random Bentley for £23k advertised .......... Can't help thinking it's his own car... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arfur Dealy 823 Posted January 24, 2020 Complete chancer, politely tell him to jog on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cornish Guy 45 Posted January 24, 2020 SHELDON MOT CENTRE LIMITED is also trading from the same site, owned by the same person. The latest accounts being filed for both companies says that no trading is taking place! Dodgy or what??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 702 Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Cornish Guy said: SHELDON MOT CENTRE LIMITED is also trading from the same site, owned by the same person. The latest accounts being filed for both companies says that no trading is taking place! Dodgy or what??? Double dodgy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
