Tricky Customer

[Jordan 0]

Hello, I'm new to this forum so you'll have to bare with me. Just wanting some advice/opinions really. About 2 weeks ago I sold a car for £3000 to a customer. The customer collected the car at 7:30pm. He had around a 2 hour drive home. At around 11pm the same night, I get a message saying they're having a few minor issues that need repairing. I offered to repair the car which I'm always happy to do if there is a genuine issue. I then get a message saying he has repaired the issue himself but now there is another little fault. Again, I offer to repair if the car is brought back to me and I even offer to cover the cost of fuel to get it back to me for repairs. After a few days without a response I get another message saying that now this issue has been fixed by himself (not a reputable garage I can follow up to check the work has actually been carried out, so no receipt for proof of repair). You can guess where this is going next, the customer is now saying he has found more faults and I need to pay for the repairs. As I've said, I've offered to repair the car for him and even cover his fuel for him getting too and from my premises. Now he's stating I should repair a chip on the window screen which wasn't there when I sold the vehicle. He's also stated he has done in excess of 100mph in the car and there is a slight shake when braking at that speed. Again, I offer to repair at my expense as I have with everything else but he doesn't seem to want to bring me the car to do the repairs. I get yet another message saying there is even more issues with the car (I'm now getting suspicious the faults don't actually exist). I've offered a full refund for the full sale price of the car, now he's saying he wants extra money for the repairs he has done (which there's no proof of). Now I'm been threatened with trading standards. The thing is any car I sell that does end up needing repairs, I always happily oblige and repair the car to make sure my customers are happy and I retain a good reputation for my business. I am a small independent holding a stock of 8-10 cars on average. Where do I stand with this customer, as I've offered a refund for the sale price I don't see what more I can do. I've been trading for around the 2 year mark now and this customer is harder to deal with than every other customer I've had combined. Any knowledge any one on here has to where I stand with this situation would be much appreciated (I don't know what more I can do). Thanks. Jordan.

[Casper 272]

Hi Jordan 

Ill try to help as best I can and I'm sure other will be along to pitch in with knowledge but will give you my take on things amd my advice

I would say you customer is not entitled to any money for repairs as you offered to get these carried out if he doesn't have  any receipts for parts or repairs where is the proof with a court or trading standards .. 

as for trading standards in my opinion you have did your legal requirements by offering repairs or full refund infact more so by offering fuel money as as far as I'm aware its down to the customer to return the car to you though I write this on the invoice terms and conditions

I would offer him the refunds but only the full price he paid for the car no fuel no repairs etc if not happy stand your ground . Again offering full refund on terms above 

although infact in legally terms I think they would look at fair use how many miles said cars has covered in two weeks etc 

if you play by the book trading standards are pretty fair you have nothing to worry about after all you have offered a full refund if it goes to them, explain this to them 

if you have photos of the car showing the windscreen you will be able to see there is no chip as this could happen at any time accidental etc  I would consider and argue this and also could be consider within fair ware and tear again in my opinion 

all the best 

Good luck 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Casper

[stockedup! 63]

8 hours ago, Jordan said:

Hello, I'm new to this forum so you'll have to bare with me. Just wanting some advice/opinions really. About 2 weeks ago I sold a car for £3000 to a customer. The customer collected the car at 7:30pm. He had around a 2 hour drive home. At around 11pm the same night, I get a message saying they're having a few minor issues that need repairing. I offered to repair the car which I'm always happy to do if there is a genuine issue. I then get a message saying he has repaired the issue himself but now there is another little fault. Again, I offer to repair if the car is brought back to me and I even offer to cover the cost of fuel to get it back to me for repairs. After a few days without a response I get another message saying that now this issue has been fixed by himself (not a reputable garage I can follow up to check the work has actually been carried out, so no receipt for proof of repair). You can guess where this is going next, the customer is now saying he has found more faults and I need to pay for the repairs. As I've said, I've offered to repair the car for him and even cover his fuel for him getting too and from my premises. Now he's stating I should repair a chip on the window screen which wasn't there when I sold the vehicle. He's also stated he has done in excess of 100mph in the car and there is a slight shake when braking at that speed. Again, I offer to repair at my expense as I have with everything else but he doesn't seem to want to bring me the car to do the repairs. I get yet another message saying there is even more issues with the car (I'm now getting suspicious the faults don't actually exist). I've offered a full refund for the full sale price of the car, now he's saying he wants extra money for the repairs he has done (which there's no proof of). Now I'm been threatened with trading standards. The thing is any car I sell that does end up needing repairs, I always happily oblige and repair the car to make sure my customers are happy and I retain a good reputation for my business. I am a small independent holding a stock of 8-10 cars on average. Where do I stand with this customer, as I've offered a refund for the sale price I don't see what more I can do. I've been trading for around the 2 year mark now and this customer is harder to deal with than every other customer I've had combined. Any knowledge any one on here has to where I stand with this situation would be much appreciated (I don't know what more I can do). Thanks. Jordan.

As part of CRA 2015 you have a right to inspect, he either brings the car back as per your returns policy or you go and get the car(Ideally with a trailer). 

May I ask what checks/PDI's and paperwork you use to backup your sale? This can stand you in good stead when wankers come a calling. I also suspect that driving the car at 100mph would go against him, particularly if he did so on the public highway.

Did he tell you what the faults where? What is his expertise in fixing cars....he may have turned an easy, simple job into something much more serious and expensive?

When occasions like this arise, it is crucial that you take control of the situation by getting the car back to inspect, he is taking the piss out of you now and you are letting him. You have offered him a refund on a vehicle that he has thrashed not even knowing if their was ever a fault(You haven't stated what the faults supposedly were).

 

I am sure you are a very nice person and want to do the right thing by your customers but don't be a soft touch.

 

Good luck

[SouthernTrader 20]

Stop responding to text messages and ask him to call you on Monday. It’s far easier for people to lie/bluff over a message than on a phone conversation.

at least that way you can talk to him properly and actually try and get to the bottom of what he actually wants, is he genuine, where this is leading etc.

Going back and forth over text is a waste of your time imo

[AW Motorgroup 18]

Hi Jordon, in my opinion this fella is just trying his luck to get more money off the car. Most likely there are no issues with it. You are in your full right to request the car to be returned to your premises to inspect and any work which he carried out was not approved for payment by you. He aint even a qualified mechanic or vat registered garage. I had a chap last year bought an old 53plate merc ml320 px I had in, he was buying it to export to Nigeria ... came down test drive done pdi done all agreed and paid ... and then he tried a similar thing a few hours later and threatened all the usual crap but in the end he just wanted money off, its a known scam by some... always have a pdi form done and stand your ground on this one. If you want a refund come back with car, as for these non approved repairs and the stone chip tell him it’s not on your pdi and your returns policy does not pay out for repairs without inspection and reports must be from a vat registered garage. I stood my ground and he disappeared. You have been more than reasonable with this customer he is just trying the usual scare tactics in hope for some cash back. Best of luck buddy. Cheers, A.

[trade vet 703]

On his own admission,he has broken the law,by travelling at 100mph.Therefore any repairs he requires,he will have to pay for.You won’t hear from him again.

[MarkTVS 209]

My first action is generally to ask for a photo of the present mileage then after I have that I would advise them that they shouldn’t be using a car with known faults and driving a car with known faults could incur further consequential damage to which he would be liable for. 

If he won’t accept a refund then I would send him a recorded letter recapping your conversations on how you have tried to resolve the matter and state that unfortunately you have now reached deadlock and if none of your solutions will appease him then to proceed with court proceedings and state you will no longer be corresponding with him and thus ignore  everything after.

welcome to the forum btw

[Jordan 0]

1 hour ago, stockedup! said:

As part of CRA 2015 you have a right to inspect, he either brings the car back as per your returns policy or you go and get the car(Ideally with a trailer). 

May I ask what checks/PDI's and paperwork you use to backup your sale? This can stand you in good stead when wankers come a calling. I also suspect that driving the car at 100mph would go against him, particularly if he did so on the public highway.

Did he tell you what the faults where? What is his expertise in fixing cars....he may have turned an easy, simple job into something much more serious and expensive?

When occasions like this arise, it is crucial that you take control of the situation by getting the car back to inspect, he is taking the piss out of you now and you are letting him. You have offered him a refund on a vehicle that he has thrashed not even knowing if their was ever a fault(You haven't stated what the faults supposedly were).

 

I am sure you are a very nice person and want to do the right thing by your customers but don't be a soft touch.

 

Good luck

Firstly, thank you for the responses. When you ask what checks/PDIs I use, I use a 45 point check list that covers interior, exterior, electrical parts e.g. mirrors, central locking and more. Bodywork condition. Road test, fluid levels and light checks. I have a form I complete with every car all signed and dated by myself. The customer doesn't sign this form. I also keep photographs of the car so there is some proof of the condition the car is in. If there's anything I can do additionally in the future to reinforce the paperwork I do already, what would you advise. Thanks again.

 

[Casper 272]

3 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Firstly, thank you for the responses. When you ask what checks/PDIs I use, I use a 45 point check list that covers interior, exterior, electrical parts e.g. mirrors, central locking and more. Bodywork condition. Road test, fluid levels and light checks. I have a form I complete with every car all signed and dated by myself. The customer doesn't sign this form. I also keep photographs of the car so there is some proof of the condition the car is in. If there's anything I can do additionally in the future to reinforce the paperwork I do already, what would you advise. Thanks again.

 

Add terms and conditions and get the customer to sign as well as yourself basically saying they are pleased before leaving that they have inspected driven the car and are happy with it etc .. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Casper

[SouthernTrader 20]

8 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Firstly, thank you for the responses. When you ask what checks/PDIs I use, I use a 45 point check list that covers interior, exterior, electrical parts e.g. mirrors, central locking and more. Bodywork condition. Road test, fluid levels and light checks. I have a form I complete with every car all signed and dated by myself. The customer doesn't sign this form. I also keep photographs of the car so there is some proof of the condition the car is in. If there's anything I can do additionally in the future to reinforce the paperwork I do already, what would you advise. Thanks again.

 

Get customer to sign and date the PDI otherwise they could argue that you just wrote it out after the fact stating all okay etc.

[Rory RSC 596]

Dear Cuntomer,

 

The CRA 2015 is in place for your protection.It also protects the dealer. You cannot pick and choose the sections you wish to use in your favour. The CRA states for any defect present within 30 days you are entitled to a refund. I am offering you a full refund due to the car having numerous issues and I want the car back to establish some facts and why this car is not meeting the bill of our usually highly prepared cars. I want to launch a full internal investigation into the matter. Furthermore I am a fair, reasonable trader who looks after my customers. I can only reimburse you for items explicitly agreed in writing. You have been given no authorisation for any expenses against this vehicle. Multiple spurious claims have arisen since purchase. 

I am sure you will agree the best course of action is a refund. Please return the vehicle, with any documents within 14 days and I shall make a quick transfer back to you for the amount paid.

Jordan

CEO Jordan Automobile Group 

[It's me 615]

unauthorised repairs

road racing a street car

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by jason doyle motor sales
=

[BHM 994]

I’d PHONE (notice the capitals - stop making a twat of yourself dancing to his tune) him to “Fuck off, you’re a Bullshitter, do your best” and see what occurs. My guess at this stage is sweet f.a.

HERE’S YET ANOTHER LESSON TO ANY BELLENDS ON WHY NOT TO EXECUTE BUSINESS BY TEXT MESSAGE.

PS welcome to the forum, it’s nice to see your first post is asking for free advice.

[Mark101 536]

I generally agree with phone calls but in cases like this, written correspondence can work in your favour. You cannot deny what has been written from your own device but you can deny what has been said.

 

[NOACROSS 414]

19 minutes ago, BHM said:

I’d PHONE (notice the capitals - stop making a twat of yourself dancing to his tune) him to “Fuck off, you’re a Bullshitter, do your best” and see what occurs. My guess at this stage is sweet f.a.

HERE’S YET ANOTHER LESSON TO ANY BELLENDS ON WHY NOT TO EXECUTE BUSINESS BY TEXT MESSAGE.

PS welcome to the forum, it’s nice to see your first post is asking for free advice.

I hate text and agree with BHM.  Real men call.  Or send a letter or email if you have to.  Text complaints are from liars and morons mostly.

In this instance I would have repeatedly called the penis after each text.  If they don't answer- leave a voicemail asking them to call you.  I would have followed that up with an email (or letter if no email).  Record everything.

As has been said, ensure each punter signs the Pdi and handover paperwork (making sure it is comprehensive). They sign to say they understand the comebacks/warranty procedure also and have a copy.

Return to base repair and the right to inspect always.  I have occasionally paid the punter's garage if I'm satisfied they're not trying it on, but only out of the area.

As for the free advice - I guess that's what we're here for (within reason) and as the topic is very relevant to all, I think we can feel OK about replying no?

[Jordan 0]

33 minutes ago, BHM said:

I’d PHONE (notice the capitals - stop making a twat of yourself dancing to his tune) him to “Fuck off, you’re a Bullshitter, do your best” and see what occurs. My guess at this stage is sweet f.a.

HERE’S YET ANOTHER LESSON TO ANY BELLENDS ON WHY NOT TO EXECUTE BUSINESS BY TEXT MESSAGE.

PS welcome to the forum, it’s nice to see your first post is asking for free advice.

Hello BHM. I have told the customer numerous times to call me. Repeatedly he doesn't call. As stated above by Mark101 I agree. I don't like contact via text message but in this case I now have written correspondence and can quote with evidence what has been said if the matter goes further. My normal course of business is to phone up as soon as possible in the case of repairs. But again as said I now have proof of him misusing the vehicle and making unauthorised repairs then requesting money towards the vehicle. The advice is much appreciated.

[stockedup! 63]

45 minutes ago, Jordan said:

Hello BHM. I have told the customer numerous times to call me. Repeatedly he doesn't call. As stated above by Mark101 I agree. I don't like contact via text message but in this case I now have written correspondence and can quote with evidence what has been said if the matter goes further. My normal course of business is to phone up as soon as possible in the case of repairs. But again as said I now have proof of him misusing the vehicle and making unauthorised repairs then requesting money towards the vehicle. The advice is much appreciated.

If he won't call he is a shithouse and a liar...… I am sure you know this!!

[Tony F 38]

Hi Jordan,

Not enough detailed info. What exactly are these 'faults'? I fault in my book is a part that is broken or not working correctly that detracts from the normal use of the car. Any thing else is simply wear and tear, which may/will require ongoing maintenance relative to the cars age, mileage and value. This customer is just trying to have your pants down mate. Fuck him off. As for trading standards, don't worry. A tip for you. Pre empty his threat and contact them first for their advice and email them a transcript of events. We have used this method in the past. Trust me, Trading Standards want an easy life same as us dealers and will be on your side if they see that you have done nothing wrong. good luck.

[Casper 272]

4 minutes ago, Tony F said:

Hi Jordan,

Not enough detailed info. What exactly are these 'faults'? I fault in my book is a part that is broken or not working correctly that detracts from the normal use of the car. Any thing else is simply wear and tear, which may/will require ongoing maintenance relative to the cars age, mileage and value. This customer is just trying to have your pants down mate. Fuck him off. As for trading standards, don't worry. A tip for you. Pre empty his threat and contact them first for their advice and email them a transcript of events. We have used this method in the past. Trust me, Trading Standards want an easy life same as us dealers and will be on your side if they see that you have done nothing wrong. good luck.

I agree tony if you have done everything right and nothing wrong Jordan you have nothing to worry about with trading standards .. as Tony says contact them.Yourself for advice let customer know this and you probably wont here from them again .  

Edited September 8, 2019 by Casper

[David Horgan 564]

Hi Jordan 

This guy is trying to pull a scam on you my friend , Found fault fixed it , found fault fixed , now found faults and wants you to pay .

You offered money back and now he wants more than he paid you for unknown fixes , Scammer that's what my head tells me .

Reply from me would be , BRING IT BACK NOW , BRING PROOF OF FAULTS FOUND AND HOW YOU FIXED THEM . 

Don't answer texts as hes winding you up and texts achieve NOTHING . face to face end of , these types need a conclusion as all they want is MONEY out of your wallet , 

[Lazz 16]

I have always found trading standards to be very helpful in situations like this and have spoke to them myself several times over the years and as long as you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry.

I sold a £2000 car a number of years ago and approx 6 weeks later i got a bill turn up in the post, spoke to the customer and they were calling me all names under the son reckon they had spoke to trading standards etc so i said that ok i will have a chat with them, anyway when i spoke to trading standards to ask where i legally stand the 1st thing they said was have you been given the opportunity to fix it which i had n't and they asked me if it had been inspected by an independent motor engineer which it had n't which they replied thats 2 mistakes they have made and they do not have a leg to stand on.

I personally at this point would stop all correspondence with them at this point by text and phone and now only deal with them in writing, explain your stance on the mater and if they are not happy with that put your solicitors details in there and tell them to deal with them from this point onwards.

I think you may have a chancer here who you will never hear from again.

[MattR 177]

Chancer. He is an absolute chancer. Ignore texts, and call him. If he doesnt respond, send him an email stating you will only correspond via that medium. That stops the text noise binging at you at 11pm and winding you up.

He is only entitled to payment for work you have authorised. And you should be paying that directly to the VAT registered garage carrying out the repair after receiving an invoice. Make that part of your terms and conditions.

As for an issue with the brakes at 100MPH? No chance. He has provided evidence of abuse of the vehicle. Think about it. Is this guy ever going to go into a small claims court against you when he has sent you that information? No. So stand firm, wait for an email back detailing his intentions and send him a firm one back. 

When you have control, he will shut up.

[David Horgan 564]

1 hour ago, MattR said:

When you have control, he will shut up.

Great Advice 

[Casper 272]

16 minutes ago, David Horgan said:

Great Advice 

I Agree

[J.T 39]

Hi Jordan,

having just given away a free car in court today to a similar bell end, I can strongly advise you to reply to his messages. I would write him a formal letter asking him to reply in the same way and not by text message detailing what work he has done and why, more importantly ask him to return the vehicle for you to inspect. If he writes to you in reply with more guff, ask him again in another letter to return the vehicle and say you cannot proceed with his claim until he does.

What I've learnt from my day in court today is that you must reply to everything he sends you, and get everything in writing.

Good luck with him anyway, and just remember A.P.A.B