Buyers Remorse

[Arfur Dealy 823]

2 minutes ago, JA Trader said:

I feel like i don't want some of these customers in my life at all. I refunded a chap yesterday for an insignia for an issue i thought i had fixed. Couldn't of asked for a nicer chap he gave me nearly 3 weeks to try and get it fixed.

Coping with the crap parts of the job can be very difficult, especially when you’ve essentially done nothing wrong. Some customers are lovely and you go above and beyond for them, others are lying nasty bastards. It’s hard to help the latter. 

[NOACROSS 414]

Feel for you, but it is part of the job. Morons that is. And morons who buy cheap cars are more likely to be a headache, because it’s usually all their dough.

You have to work harder with these cheap punters & if you know they are out of your area, then make sure they know before they buy the difficulty of any potential warranty issues...consider being the Sales Prevention  Officer  (SPO)

For all sales: Your pre-and post sale checks and paperwork need to be really good. The punters need to be told and sign for the fact that they have tested the car, (keep test drive logs) and all is well. They agree there is no faults with it (unless declared).

Tell them, and get them to sign to say, they understand the terms of your warranty and what’s covered (if you give one) and that in the unlikely event of there being any issues with the junk, that they understand it is their responsibility to get it back to you so you can exercise your right to inspect and repair under the CRA.  

Show them and get them to sign the Pdi etc at handover  

Best advice you have had is ‘if it feels wrong-don’t deal with them’. The Sales Prevention Officer is a very important role on the rare occasions he is needed  

If you don’t have all the above paperwork protecting you, then just refund the idiot, but make them bring it back to you (unless their garage are prepared to go on record saying it’s unsafe to do so.) if you can get them to see sense. Remember though that if you force them, the probably not broken car, may well get a hard time in their hands on the way back to you.

Sometimes ‘retreat is the better part valour’ and ‘pick your battles’ is another cliche I like.

Most people are normal, and you’ll soon forget about this loon -but treat them all as potential screamers until proven otherwise & get your ‘ducks in a row’ at point of sale and handover always. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

If a customer has signed agreeing to return it in the event of a repair they are not going to remotely blackmail you.

It’s essential your terms state and they agree to RTB in the event of an issue, otherwise you are completely open and vulnerable.

It is also essential they understand that the car is not new and you are not responsible for repairs that are due to the gradual deterioration through age and mileage wear n tear. 

18 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

Feel for you, but it is part of the job. Morons that is. And morons who buy cheap cars are more likely to be a headache, because it’s usually all their dough.

You have to work harder with these cheap punters & if you know they are out of your area, then make sure they know before they buy the difficulty of any potential warranty issues...consider being the Sales Prevention  Officer  (SPO)

For all sales: Your pre-and post sale checks and paperwork need to be really good. The punters need to be told and sign for the fact that they have tested the car, (keep test drive logs) and all is well. They agree there is no faults with it (unless declared).

Tell them, and get them to sign to say, they understand the terms of your warranty and what’s covered (if you give one) and that in the unlikely event of there being any issues with the junk, that they understand it is their responsibility to get it back to you so you can exercise your right to inspect and repair under the CRA.  

Show them and get them to sign the Pdi etc at handover  

Best advice you have had is ‘if it feels wrong-don’t deal with them’. The Sales Prevention Officer is a very important role on the rare occasions he is needed  

If you don’t have all the above paperwork protecting you, then just refund the idiot, but make them bring it back to you (unless their garage are prepared to go on record saying it’s unsafe to do so.) if you can get them to see sense. Remember though that if you force them, the probably not broken car, may well get a hard time in their hands on the way back to you.

Sometimes ‘retreat is the better part valour’ and ‘pick your battles’ is another cliche I like.

Most people are normal, and you’ll soon forget about this loon -but treat them all as potential screamers until proven otherwise & get your ‘ducks in a row’ at point of sale and handover always. 

Well said Noa 

[David Horgan 564]

2 hours ago, JA Trader said:

Im not looking forward to the 6 hour round trip to collect it.

SIX Hours to buy a £1,600 car and then try doing you for £4,000 repairs .

I think a scam smells of a piss take to me , who on gods earth travels 3 hrs one way for a £1,600 car  unless its been done before and to take a dollar off the trader in question 

Calls you on way home to start the bad news bit then hit you with a 4k repair bill , she must be taking something to get that high  smells of Bull Shite to me 

Suppose only you knows the car though , so was it a pile or not ? could be the question . If it wasn't a scrapper  i would be on my bike to find the car and her .

I had this once with a nice guy from 250 miles away , bought a SLK from me rang me up after 30 mins to say the rear Diff had gone but the AA were taking him home  bearing in mind he was tone DEAF , Merc quoted £5,000 to replace , so i said NO worries my son is down your way and he's a very talented tech , My lad was there in less than 25 mins , Guess what No Problems at all ,  NO AA recovery receipt, NO Whinging Diff when my lad drove it . NO Merc quote , We rang Merc and they said they hadn't heard of that reg either , Thieving scoundrel , He got the biggest roasting from my lad ever , then he got me on the phone too .  I invoiced him £300 for the inspection  and then sent a court claim when he didn't pay it , then the bailiffs, he got a CCJ for his trouble  because he ran out of time  and they collected over £800 in the end . 

Moral of this is ; GO AND FIND THE CAR if you know its good . 

[trade vet 703]

34 minutes ago, JA Trader said:

I feel like i don't want some of these customers in my life at all. I refunded a chap yesterday for an insignia for an issue i thought i had fixed. Couldn't of asked for a nicer chap he gave me nearly 3 weeks to try and get it fixed.

I did not realise it was a cheapie.I have no idea how anybody can now operate a legitimate car sales business selling cheapies because of the scope of CRA 2015.You can thank Jo Swinson the new Lib Dem leader for that,she introduced it.

Maybe it could work if you restricted sales to the aged 50 and over non internet generation who have skills like how to open the bonnet and check the oil and water instead of being concerned with connectability or whatever it is called....Rant over.

[trader555 2]

11 minutes ago, David Horgan said:

Suppose only you knows the car though , so was it a pile or not ? could be the question .

Exactly this, in my opinion you should be 100% confident in the car.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

27 minutes ago, David Horgan said:

SIX Hours to buy a £1,600 car and then try doing you for £4,000 repairs .

I think a scam smells of a piss take to me , who on gods earth travels 3 hrs one way for a £1,600 car  unless its been done before and to take a dollar off the trader in question 

Calls you on way home to start the bad news bit then hit you with a 4k repair bill , she must be taking something to get that high  smells of Bull Shite to me 

Suppose only you knows the car though , so was it a pile or not ? could be the question . If it wasn't a scrapper  i would be on my bike to find the car and her .

I had this once with a nice guy from 250 miles away , bought a SLK from me rang me up after 30 mins to say the rear Diff had gone but the AA were taking him home  bearing in mind he was tone DEAF , Merc quoted £5,000 to replace , so i said NO worries my son is down your way and he's a very talented tech , My lad was there in less than 25 mins , Guess what No Problems at all ,  NO AA recovery receipt, NO Whinging Diff when my lad drove it . NO Merc quote , We rang Merc and they said they hadn't heard of that reg either , Thieving scoundrel , He got the biggest roasting from my lad ever , then he got me on the phone too .  I invoiced him £300 for the inspection  and then sent a court claim when he didn't pay it , then the bailiffs, he got a CCJ for his trouble  because he ran out of time  and they collected over £800 in the end . 

Moral of this is ; GO AND FIND THE CAR if you know its good . 

Great story David. But, if the customer had agreed RTB the fraud would have never happened in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.

[Casper 272]

I had it years ago with £1800 Astra kept coming back with faults had some profit in it at the time I payed a mechanic to fix a few things offended the guy a full refund inc his tax has the car back and drove it 2 days i knew the car was ok and was just going to run it myself for a.bit . He would. Not accept said grandson loved the car so I asked him to sign to say I had offered him a full refund including his tax which he refused never heard from him again . Then I heard later from a local lad that said grandson has been racing the car with his friends at a local country park ..still think to this day the he was making up faults 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Casper

[trade vet 703]

59 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Great story David. But, if the customer had agreed RTB the fraud would have never happened in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.

I think David’s story is one of the best I have read on here for a while.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Just now, trade vet said:

I think David’s story is one of the best I have read on here for a while.

Agreed

[Casper 272]

41 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Agreed

 

42 minutes ago, trade vet said:

I think David’s story is one of the best I have read on here for a while.

+3

[Rory RSC 596]

3 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

 

It is also essential they understand that the car is not new and you are not responsible for repairs that are due to the gradual deterioration through age and mileage wear n tear. 

 

I don’t know many that just chalk things down to age related wear and tear. All of ours are back on the blower as soon as something goes wrong and I think if we aren’t fixing stuff there’s little point in them buying from a dealer.

[MarkTVS 209]

Can I ask what the reported defects are?

I would personally be trying to talk them into returning the car themselves unless the faults made it undriveable, and if they were at it I would be deducting revalet costs etc etc. Obviously if it is a legitimate claim I wouldn’t make any deductions. But if customers want to play the prick I can be a bigger one as I have much more experience at it

[It's me 615]

you cant make customer return to base for a refund unless it stipulates this in your t@c's and customer signed to agree

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

10 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

I don’t know many that just chalk things down to age related wear and tear. All of ours are back on the blower as soon as something goes wrong and I think if we aren’t fixing stuff there’s little point in them buying from a dealer.

We add our value in the sourcing and prep for retail, describing it honestly and accurately and honouring any repairs our responsibility as per the CRA.

Offering a warranty which covers wear n tear is above our responsibility and of course your choice Rory if you want to do that. 

But when I’m selling a 3k 10 year old with a 150k on the clock, a car which is 7 years past the manufacturers warrant period, the customer has to understand you are not selling it with 6 months of free repairs and maintenance. If they want that then they should find the remaining 30k and buy a new one. 

 

[Rory RSC 596]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

We add our value in the sourcing and prep for retail, describing it honestly and accurately and honouring any repairs our responsibility as per the CRA.

Offering a warranty which covers wear n tear is above our responsibility and of course your choice Rory if you want to do that. 

But when I’m selling a 3k 10 year old with a 150k on the clock, a car which is 7 years past the manufacturers warrant period, the customer has to understand you are not selling it with 6 months of free repairs and maintenance. If they want that then they should find the remaining 30k and buy a new one. 

 

Fully get that and understand this. My real world experience of this tends to be as soon as you say no you just end up with a load of shit and toys out of the pram, do you not get a load of kick offs? 

[JA Trader 58]

Thanks for all the feedback

Had an email conversation backwards and forwards last night i left it with them as return the car to me and i will A repair and return to her as a gesture of good will or B give her a full refund. Will wait and see if i hear anything today.

[Mark101 536]

12 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

I don’t know many that just chalk things down to age related wear and tear. All of ours are back on the blower as soon as something goes wrong and I think if we aren’t fixing stuff there’s little point in them buying from a dealer.

100% - buy from a dealer and have confidence that you will hold their hand if something genuinely fails.

 

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

We add our value in the sourcing and prep for retail, describing it honestly and accurately and honouring any repairs our responsibility as per the CRA.

Offering a warranty which covers wear n tear is above our responsibility and of course your choice Rory if you want to do that. 

But when I’m selling a 3k 10 year old with a 150k on the clock, a car which is 7 years past the manufacturers warrant period, the customer has to understand you are not selling it with 6 months of free repairs and maintenance. If they want that then they should find the remaining 30k and buy a new one. 

 

Agreed. I tell my customers at the POS that I treat people how I like to be treated myself and that if they work with me, I will bend over backwards to help. I cover wear and tear (my choice) becuase I do believe for example, that a clutch, by its very nature a wear and tear item, should last beyond my 3 month warranty, same for brakes, exhausts, batteries etc.  Everything but tyres IMO.  Only time I dig my heels in is when a customer starts to rant, call me dodgy (or atleast suggest) or threatens me or my business in any way.

This has only happened 3 times.

A Volvo where two garages (including a specialist found no fault) 

A Passat that had a free health check at VW (I sent legal letter to VW dealer principal who said the car was "dangeous." 13 main agent stamps, never had an advisory, new MOT) Ended up costing me £50 for a new "spare" key.  The only legitimate observation from the health check.

A Mini woman who would call at any time day or night ranting about the bag of shit.

Worst of all, a rejection on a Vauxhall from a greedy customer who completely knew what they were buying and why it was cheap, said I would never hear from them again.....until it developed a fault a couple of weeks later. 

 

[JA Trader 58]

11 hours ago, MarkTVS said:

Can I ask what the reported defects are?

I would personally be trying to talk them into returning the car themselves unless the faults made it undriveable, and if they were at it I would be deducting revalet costs etc etc. Obviously if it is a legitimate claim I wouldn’t make any deductions. But if customers want to play the prick I can be a bigger one as I have much more experience at it

Pair of track rod ends, Exhaust heat shielding, Rear Brake Calliper, Disks and pads all round. Corrosion on rear sill. Petrol tank straps and the clutch

Repairs came to over £4000

12 hours ago, C B said:

Find the time in the week and turn up unannounced at the garage. If it's not there, excellent, she's using it and there's nothing wrong with it, well, not enough wrong with it to deem it to be unfit for purpose. If it is there, you need to take possession of it there and then. I'd be paranoid of them doing something to it if they have advance notice that you'll be collecting it and potentially taking away £x,xxx.xx's of potential income from them. I'd also be recording the whole situation from the moment I step out of the car. 

The only time I had a similar dispute with a customer I did exactly the same as above. The car wasn't there and after doing some digging the garage owner was related to my customer. You may not be so lucky but you have to keep your cards close to your chest and go catch them out (potentially).

Close still reversed the deal 

 

Not a bad shout ill see if i can blag a day away next week.

15 hours ago, David Horgan said:

Suppose only you knows the car though , so was it a pile or not ? could be the question . If it wasn't a scrapper  i would be on my bike to find the car and her .

Car was a Gem slightly higher mileage than our normal of this spec but full service history and only a few keepers.

Definitely a car i would not be upset about buying back and i will throw a clutch in it and no doubt sell it again.

Is there any legal stand point for me to insist on a decision within 14 days. The last thing i want is this hanging over my head. I have done the maths last night and i have the money to pay her back although it will stall me till something else sells.

They are also reporting my tester to VOSA and have advised they are awaiting on VOSA to come out and inspect the car before they can do anything with it ??? Any truth in VOSA doing this ???

[MarkTVS 209]

45 minutes ago, JA Trader said:

Pair of track rod ends, Exhaust heat shielding, Rear Brake Calliper, Disks and pads all round. Corrosion on rear sill. Petrol tank straps and the clutch

Repairs came to over £4000

Not a bad shout ill see if i can blag a day away next week.

Car was a Gem slightly higher mileage than our normal of this spec but full service history and only a few keepers.

Definitely a car i would not be upset about buying back and i will throw a clutch in it and no doubt sell it again.

Is there any legal stand point for me to insist on a decision within 14 days. The last thing i want is this hanging over my head. I have done the maths last night and i have the money to pay her back although it will stall me till something else sells.

They are also reporting my tester to VOSA and have advised they are awaiting on VOSA to come out and inspect the car before they can do anything with it ??? Any truth in VOSA doing this ???

Vosa can only get involved if it’s rusty holes within 30 cm of a seatbelt or suspension mounting point, anything else could have happened at any time. I wouldn’t worry about it. 

I called vosa on a car that had 2 weeks off a fresh mot that was decatted, 3 bald tyres, 3 snapped springs, washers inop etc and they told me that could have happened at any time. 

 

With regards to your defects I would be estimating, £90 to supply and fit 2 track rod ends, Discs pads and a Caliper at £350/400, heatshields and tank strap at £50, clutch at £400 and a bit more for the sill, so less than a grand at retail prices. I highly doubt it would need discs all round though unless your pdi was extremely lax. Sounds like she’s taking the piss.

[David Horgan 564]

15 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Great story David. But, if the customer had agreed RTB the fraud would have never happened in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.

We do stipulate RTB , this old guy was trying it on , but my son just happened to be down there on a short break , BINGO result . Got him bang to rights the thieving old goat . 

[Casper 272]

Just now, David Horgan said:

We do stipulate RTB , this old guy was trying it on , but my son just happened to be down there on a short break , BINGO result . Got him bang to rights the thieving old goat . 

Great that you did David makes a change to see the dealer win rather than the consumer who is trying it on and not genuine . 

[BHM 994]

19 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Tell her you will not pay third party repair costs, end of. She can return it to you and you’ll refund as a gesture of goodwill. Its a 16 year old banger and her expectations should reflect that. If she refuses, tell the bitch to do her worse, no problem see you in court in 9months. 

Considering It’s only £1600, if she chooses the latter, you will quadruple the profit in that period. 

Too add, you can’t win in these situations, all you can do is either bend over or play them at their own game. Sometimes you just have to stand your ground and be ruthless. 

The choice is yours. 

+1. It’ll take 9 months to get to court & 99.9% of punters are bullshitters. There are an awful lot on this forum keen to refund their way out of a perceived potential problem. Chancers like this just need bringing to heel, tell them THEIR responsibilities & politely sack them off otherwise. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

3 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

Fully get that and understand this. My real world experience of this tends to be as soon as you say no you just end up with a load of shit and toys out of the pram, do you not get a load of kick offs? 

I educate at the point of sale, along the lines of “my role is to ensure the car is prepared to the very highest standards, fit for purpose etc on collection” however “maintaining it is yours”, I then show them what is covered in the Lawgistics warranty booklet and the fact nothing is covered due to deterioration/ wear n tear....

[MattR 177]

22 hours ago, Tony911 said:

Rather do 6 hours travelling then 12months of stress if it goes to court

Make sure she has the reg doc before you refund her