Go home CAP, you're drunk

[j4ck100 12]

BCA BB hall 2 today ukcgrselect

03 plate Jag S Type 4.2 v8 SE few bits like sensors heated seats no nav grade 2 nice example good history 

Cap clean £1100

Cap retail £2100

Hammer before fees £2200

Madness 

[jimreidvehicle 255]

that's 200% of CAP, lol

[j4ck100 12]

that's 200% of CAP, lol

You think cap wrong, paid too much or bit of both? 

[It's me 612]

 

You think cap wrong, paid too much or bit of both? 

it may be the case that 2 people needed the car to fill a customers request,ive had a customer come in again today to see if i can find him the car he wants and again ive had to say not yet,of course maybe they were buying via parkers guide anyway,or it is silly season august before a bank holidays maybe the buyer has finally flipped?

[Phil H 124]

I often wonder whether the same car would of made as much if it went through via a different vendor? I've watched some ukcg vans make more than lex and not in as good condition

[James Bush 95]

I don't think its CAP I think its the buyers. I'm seeing stuff go through at stupid money and I'm not a shy buyer, especially at BCA which makes me think are they really selling?

[RandomJord 7]

Ha, i was there today and there were a few that made me scratch my head and double check i was reading the guides properly

 

That one included!

[j4ck100 12]

Ha, i was there today and there were a few that made me scratch my head and double check i was reading the guides properly

 

That one included!

Haha! Buy anything today? Funny thing is I know who's taken it, they have a penchant for S types it seems 

[RandomJord 7]

A few bits, managed to get about 7 which is good going because it's been slim pickings at my (lower!) end of the market for a few weeks down there now! 

[Philip Nothard 26]

HI all, without getting into defending values or individual justification - as I am on here as a industry enthusiast and someone who is interested in supporting where possible.   I/we often see these, what we call 'outliers' and need to ensure that we understand the overall market, where it was sold (location), who sold and potentially where possible - who bought it?

As buyers, how often do you see these examples, and more importantly, after all the costs involved with the purchase, not forgetting the incidentals afterwards to prepare and market the vehicle - where is the retail market for these cars? Costs are not coming down, and the retail market is not becoming less competitive.....

 

 

[umesh 336]

I think sometime we have to throw the guides away - simple as that - I've bought cars which if someone was studying how much I've paid they would think I was barmy ..!!

Think sometimes you simply look at 'value' and if you've done well with that make/model then you ignore the guides - go with your own gut feeling/ previous sales history or you may just have a customer who will buy it ... in the above case the buyer may have a client willing to spend £4k  ?

[Philip Nothard 26]

Agreed Umesh, after all, these are unique to everyone and if you could see some of the variance of results we/I see - you would wonder!!  Every business has a different buying strategy and policy - not ignoring, not everyone buys from auctions.   There is always a difference when you are buying for a sold order, rather than stock and the network is so diverse in regards dealer types and geographical locations.  And we can't ignore that the auction centres are attracting 'private' buyers for personal use.  

[sparky 274]

BCA BB hall 2 today ukcgrselect

03 plate Jag S Type 4.2 v8 SE few bits like sensors heated seats no nav grade 2 nice example good history 

Cap clean £1100

Cap retail £2100

Hammer before fees £2200

Madness 

Just out of interest, where did you see the car at?

To be honest, I've no idea what that sort of stuff is worth. On the other hand, I've an idea what a bread and butter sensible mileage 2007 Focus Diesel Estate is worth that went through BB a couple of weeks ago. Well I thought I did until it made just shy of double it's cap clean money. Unbelievable Jeff!

[Gavin@Rousdon 137]

Does anyone on here ever pay well over book then?? CAP is a guide and with so many possible options the price can vary between above and below CAP Clean. 

Take a Mini for example, add a panoramic roof it becomes over book, then add SAT NAV, becomes more over book, add leather ...you can see the theme here. 

If you base what you buy on the CAP price you will only buy run of the mill stuff which is on lots of dealers forecourts, buy something a little different and pay more and your not competing against some many other dealers. 

 

Take the example of the Jag S Tyre, a quick look on autotrader says if it has sensible mileage it could be a £3500 car. I can't see any at £2000 which is what CAP says. Also bear in mind CAP would expect a 12 year S-Type to be a grade 4 car in BCA terms due to its age. 

[SC Derby 259]

I only use the guides for part exchanges to be honest and even then I still use my normal method as well.

Work out what I can retail it for, work out prep costs, work out the margin I want/need.

IF, after taking all that off, I can buy it at that price then I will, if not, leave it.

[James Bush 95]

I use CAP/Glasses but only as a guide, I try and stock low mileage high spec examples so will always pay into book. But the guides have it so wrong on all sorts of stuff. I like Alfa's, probably on my own their, but both guides massively under value them and I tend to buy them all private off people who have been to WBAC or car supermarkets where they just go off book. I see Collezione 147's regular making around £1000 over guide at BCA. I was at a local Manheim auction the other night and a grade 1, assured, Grande Punto came up, not my usual stock but it was one owner, 50k, full history, valeted, just MOT'd and serviced and wants for nothing. I paid £250 into book for it and was told by several other traders I was mad and just pushing prices up!! Still looks good value to me especially with £0 spend!! But at the same auction there's folks buying grade 3/4 stuff at book money and thinking they've got a bargain, I still don't understand some of the prices though when run of the mill Focus/Astra/308 etc are making well into book - where's the profit??

Edited August 25, 2015 by James Bush

[RH Trading 80]

Interested to know if they were definitely trade or public that bought the Jag, If it was a dealer I bet he trades from his house with zero overheads, little prep cost and low margin but quick sale. Seeing more and more of these examples of silly money, way above CAP clean. Don't have a problem selling at moment but very slim pickings at auction to replace sold

[It's me 612]

Interested to know if they were definitely trade or public that bought the Jag, If it was a dealer I bet he trades from his house with zero overheads, little prep cost and low margin but quick sale. Seeing more and more of these examples of silly money, way above CAP clean. Don't have a problem selling at moment but very slim pickings at auction to replace sold

to be fair the original poster goes on to say and here i quote

Haha! Buy anything today? Funny thing is I know who's taken it, they have a penchant for S types it seems 

so its maybe the case that the buyer specialises in this brand and as i said further up this thread may well have a buyer waiting who cant do the auction legwork, hj on his old forum used to have someone i think called reg dwiar? who would often buy cars on behalf of customers for a small fee that was always saved in reduced auction costs

 

[Tom 164]

I was up BB on monday!

I usually work out retail then work backwards to what I want to give. I use the guide prices but not for retail only trade and make sure its in the same area I want to pay. 

[RandomJord 7]

I was up BB on monday!

I usually work out retail then work backwards to what I want to give. I use the guide prices but not for retail only trade and make sure its in the same area I want to pay. 

we'll have to have a forum get together in the Business Centre! 

 

Thats where I pretend to be studying the lists but really I'm just there for the free coffee and biscuits

[j4ck100 12]

I was up BB on monday!

I usually work out retail then work backwards to what I want to give. I use the guide prices but not for retail only trade and make sure its in the same area I want to pay. 

 I always chuckle at some of the characters you see down there, same faces every time. Wouldn't want to meet some of them in a dark alley that's for sure. Overheard on Monday " Oy Mick I just bid coupla pony's on a fackin' Mondeo went for too much" unreal. 

RE the s type, I think a local garage called RG traders that trade out of a portakabin bought it but yet to be confirmed as rolled by earlier and couldn't see it. They have a couple s types on the lot already. Think is Cheapest nationally for a v8 s type same age and miles which are quite rare is £3500 with an older one at 3k, so maybe it is just a case of that car being worth more than cap estimates. At the end of the day a 37k Car new after 12 years with 89k miles in good condition does sound to be worth more than 1100 at trade value in any case but what do I know. 

Just out of interest, where did you see the car at?

To be honest, I've no idea what that sort of stuff is worth. On the other hand, I've an idea what a bread and butter sensible mileage 2007 Focus Diesel Estate is worth that went through BB a couple of weeks ago. Well I thought I did until it made just shy of double it's cap clean money. Unbelievable Jeff!

£1600-1700 was fair in my opinion 

3.0 v6 came through earlier (don't know if more or less desirable) same mileage bit older, stunk of fags and old fags lying in ashtray still, fetched a grand 

we'll have to have a forum get together in the Business Centre! 

 

Thats where I pretend to be studying the lists but really I'm just there for the free coffee and biscuits

I'm still on Silver so no business centre, gutted. Can I knock A secret pattern and you let me in? Close now though.. 

Interested to know if they were definitely trade or public that bought the Jag, If it was a dealer I bet he trades from his house with zero overheads, little prep cost and low margin but quick sale. Seeing more and more of these examples of silly money, way above CAP clean. Don't have a problem selling at moment but very slim pickings at auction to replace sold

100% dealer he opened oil cap put his fingers in then opened coolant and put fingers in and had dealer look about him 

[jamslug 91]

I was up BB on monday!

I usually work out retail then work backwards to what I want to give. I use the guide prices but not for retail only trade and make sure its in the same area I want to pay. 

I was there too. Love Blackbushe . If you see me , give me a shout . I am usually the sexiest one in there  . 

[Tom 164]

I was there too. Love Blackbushe . If you see me , give me a shout . I am usually the sexiest one in there  . 

No I am! x

we'll have to have a forum get together in the Business Centre! 

 

Thats where I pretend to be studying the lists but really I'm just there for the free coffee and biscuits

I would if they give me a fob to get in the door im on platinum so qualified for the privilege! 

Sometimes i wear my company jacket with my logo if you spot me. 

[Steve92 80]

 

Take a Mini for example, add a panoramic roof it becomes over book, then add SAT NAV, becomes more over book, add leather ...you can see the theme here. 

 

ooooh, my mini will be desirable then, I have all 3

[CJ Underhill 34]

I use blackbushe quite alot too, its probably you buggers im bidding against haha

Auction prices seem to be all over the place. I tried buying a dozen or so cars this week from BCA, and wasn't close to any of them.

I always wonder if people take in the auction fee's. You can add £500 to the hammer price just in fees, and if like me, you're too lazy to go an collect you have delivery aswell.

 

Does anyone else follow a car? I keep the paperwork/ condition report etc for all the cars i've missed out on. Then usually on a quite afternoon, i'll search auto trader and see where it ended up, and what they are retaling it for compared to what i thought price wise.

Example - I was bidding on a lovely SAAB 93 the other day, was prepared to go over glasses price as i was confident in what i could get for it. Needless to say, the hammer price was near on what i would of retailed it for. It's not just Cap that seem to be a long way out

Glass Trade -  £7430

Glass Retail -  £8920

Hammer Price - £9,375

Car is advertised for nearly £11,000 !!

 

Found it on autotrader at a dealer, Wont mention the name... however it did make me laugh that they have on their website that they DON'T buy cars from auction, just genuine main dealer part exchanges... think somebody is telling porkies... it would also help if they hadn't used BCAs auction photographs in their advert

 

Anybody else use think there's the "phantom" bids going on? I bought a car 2 weeks ago (it quickly got sent back tho) , i was bidding online for it, against "another online bidder" until i decided to pull out and let the other bidder have it, i'd already gone over and above what i wanted to pay. 5 minutes later i get a call saying there "was an issue" with their online bidding system and it had "accidently" submitted the last bid in error and that my bid was actually the winning bid.