Vehicle rejection

[Clr268 0]

We recently had a customer demanding vehicle rejection after 5 days. (Not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality and therefore I am exercising my statutory right to reject it within the first 30 days following purchase, pursuant to section 22 of the consumer rights act 2015.) Customer initially test drove the vehicle (4 miles.) then had two days contemplation whether to purchase or not. They decided to purchase the vehicle and collected the next day. 5 days later we received letter by email demanding vehicle rejection, due to high clutch bitting point, which was confirmed by their! local garage by means of an estimate to replace the said clutch, dated 3 days after purchase. The vehicle in question had a full dealer history with 61k. We actually used the vehicle for a week prior to their purchase and racked up approx 300 miles without any noticeable issue!!

We requested that they return the vehicle for inspection and if there was noticable clutch travel we would replace the clutch FOC. They declined immediately and again demanded vehicle rejection on the grounds that the vehicle was faulty at time of collection. 

Never had this before! Has anyone else had a similar case & really looking for legal guideline on how to proceed. All comments welcomed. 

[It's me 612]

well its a serviceable item and of course they checked and drove it prior to buying

do you have a section on your collection/sales invoice that states customer is happy with car and has been on a test drive and they sign it?

for what its worth they obviously have buyers remorse as you know,the thing is do you want to go legal or would life be simpler if you paid them out and flocked them off

[Clr268 0]

You know, we don’t have that on our invoice. When we’ve done nothing wrong it’s a pain just because they maybe have buyers remorse. Another owner on the vehicle etc etc.. 

[It's me 612]

2 minutes ago, Clr268 said:

You know, we don’t have that on our invoice. When we’ve done nothing wrong it’s a pain just because they maybe have buyers remorse. Another owner on the vehicle etc etc.. 

i tell new owners straight the log book doesnt get sent off for at least a week after they purchased but obviously i only tell this to decent customers who you know are straight (ok ones going to get past occasionally)

get it on your receipt and get them to sign it ,you are not taking away consumer rights you are getting them to sign they were happy with dints dents tyre treads clutches etc at pos

if you cant write your own i think lawgistics do a receipt pad with similar writing

its no fun going to court so please choose wisely

[Tony911 79]

Refund them deduct £200 for mileage and extra owner and sell it again with a new clutch

[It's me 612]

4 minutes ago, Tony911 said:

Refund them deduct £200 for mileage and extra owner and sell it again with a new clutch

you cant tony you have to give full amount back if its a genuine fault in first month from the day after collection

you could try and negotiate but once you try a negotiation customer would have you so its all or nothing deal the cards basically

[NOACROSS 414]

You have the right to inspect and attempt a repair. Anyone could ruin a clutch in five minutes. 

Def.  buyers remorse, otherwise they’d be delighted with a new clutch.

However, I’d more than likely refund the idiots and move on with my life. We keep the V5’s a week or so for this eventuality. Not that I can remember the last time we refunded a customer. 

As above, have a section or a form at handover where they sign to say they’ve driven it etc and they confirm there were no faults...

Edited March 10, 2019 by NOACROSS

[Tony911 79]

9 minutes ago, boring dave said:

you cant tony you have to give full amount back if its a genuine fault in first month from the day after collection

you could try and negotiate but once you try a negotiation customer would have you so its all or nothing deal the cards basically

It's always worth a go

[Clr268 0]

Mmmm I’ll have a think. But surely a used car comes with a used clutch. We are talking about a fault on collection. Does a clutch with excess travel (if it now has!!!) constitute a fault? 

[NOACROSS 414]

 

14 minutes ago, Clr268 said:

Mmmm I’ll have a think. But surely a used car comes with a used clutch. We are talking about a fault on collection. Does a clutch with excess travel (if it now has!!!) constitute a fault? 

I agree and don’t think so either. Only you can answer the question of whether you can be bothered with the grief or not though  

What’s to stop the fools making something else break? Or leaving you an undeserved bad review etc.

If you do decide to dig your heels in, you will have a load of back and forth and the eventual court day, which could be a year from now -if you lose, you could well have to refund in full and, you’ll not necessarily even get the car back unless you do your court paperwork properly. Obviously, if you do get it back, it’s value and condition will be different.

I’ve fought before in the past and won some/lost some. Some won’t go to court, some will. Some will just reluctantly accept your offer of a fix.

If you feel so strongly still in the morning, maybe join up with Lawgistics and get them to fire a letter or three off for you to exercise your right to repair/inspect. 

If it’s looking like going to court, or you decide it’s not worth the hassle-you could then say ‘bugger it’ and refund in a week or two.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

 

[Tom 164]

What car is it?

[MrV 66]

This is what scares me as a newbie, imo this is absolute bollocks, these people are obviously taking the preverbial and taking advantage of the cra2015, I'd follow NOA'S advice and get lawgistics to send a letter, did you supply a PDI sheet? 

[Clr268 0]

Hi Tom, it was actually Citreon Berlingo LCV. not used as a LCV but previously privately owned. Absolute mint. 

I’m going to have a think Mrv 

No PDI unfortunately. 

 

[awc1000 93]

Can we ask what the car is?

If it was me and the car was a saleable 61k with franchise history i would refund and go again - but only after insisting it was returned for inspection, for all you know it could have been towing a searay down the coast all last weekend, ive had this lol.

as mentioned its strictly a no no to not refund in full during period, however if you are fare and explain that the reality is that you have to re prep valet and its grown another owner etc then an offer minus say 3-400 will usually make customer agree knowing a refund is a coming, make a point of making them wait the full time qouta for refunding which on your part i think is 2 weeks?

If you choose to fight the case start by looking into "their" garage, if they are not vat registered that can go in your favour come court day by you trumping an opinion with your vat reg garages opinion, "their" garage at this point could even be a know it all buys fook all type pub trader.

4 minutes ago, Clr268 said:

Hi Tom, it was actually Citreon Berlingo LCV. not used as a LCV but previously privately owned. Absolute mint. 

I’m going to have a think Mrv 

No PDI unfortunately. 

 

being a van did you invoice it to him or a company name? i think commercial sales from company (you) to his company are outside the requirements of a warranty, 

[David Ayers 171]

Citroen/Peugeot always seem to have a high biting point.

The thing is you can replace the clutch and it will be the same.

[Clr268 0]

Ah no it was a private person. They are not reasonable people unfortunately. Will not take any negotiation, full refund only. 

Like I said, we’ve never had this before, we always we resolve any issues promptly. I suppose there’s always one! What more can we do than offfer a full replacement FOC.. even though we know there was absolutely no issue when it left. 

Hi David,  I agree. 

28 minutes ago, awc1000 said:

Can we ask what the car is?

If it was me and the car was a saleable 61k with franchise history i would refund and go again - but only after insisting it was returned for inspection, for all you know it could have been towing a searay down the coast all last weekend, ive had this lol.

as mentioned its strictly a no no to not refund in full during period, however if you are fare and explain that the reality is that you have to re prep valet and its grown another owner etc then an offer minus say 3-400 will usually make customer agree knowing a refund is a coming, make a point of making them wait the full time qouta for refunding which on your part i think is 2 weeks?

If you choose to fight the case start by looking into "their" garage, if they are not vat registered that can go in your favour come court day by you trumping an opinion with your vat reg garages opinion, "their" garage at this point could even be a know it all buys fook all type pub trader.

being a van did you invoice it to him or a company name? i think commercial sales from company (you) to his company are outside the requirements of a warranty, 

Garage was vat reg’d 

[awc1000 93]

Its a strange one, those berlingo / kangoo drivetrains are pretty bulletproof easily good for 100k even with skimpy servicing, with 61k you will sell it quickly again no doubt for good money, best insist on a look first before refunding, something does not sound right here especially after you used it for 300 miles and you were happy with it, any idea's how many miles he's covered? and any idea what he's carrying / using it for? a couple of heavy full pallets would easily put a berlingo overweight hence possibly fooky clutch..

[TangoVictor32 90]

1 hour ago, David Ayers said:

Citroen/Peugeot always seem to have a high biting point.

The thing is you can replace the clutch and it will be the same.

We've sold a ton of them over the years. They all do. 

After VW Caddy, the Berlingo is 2nd place when it comes to driveability / reliability.

My coppers nose says your punter has never had or driven a van before. We had another chap recently moaning the clutch is high but they all are. But some folk dont understand vans aren't cars.

I would ask him for the mileage its on now and refund if it hasnt been to the moon and back. Like others have said it could be more hassle. 

 

[Clr268 0]

Your right they came out of a car. They’ve had for only 6 days and said not used it for the purchase they bought if for. Part time gardening business/round. 

Their argument is they’ve had it to their local garage to confirm and have an estimate to replace. Of course they have! 

To be honest, if they’d of called initially and said they can’t get along with the vehicle we’d of worked something out. Just to send a demanding letter advising the vehicle was faulty at point of collection as a get out. My initial point was does a used clutch, for arguments sake let’s say it was high on collection constitute a fault.? 

They also are refusing to return the vehicle. Due to go out and inspect shortly, we’ll see what a face to face approach does. 

[justlooking 48]

I thought any wear and tear item which a clutch is, is excluded from CRA?

[justlooking 48]

13 minutes ago, tradex said:

The clutch is still servicable from what I read, more a case of another problem behind the wheel.

The car meets CRA-2105, the clutch is servicable.

Ok so perfectly able to refuse customers demands.

 

id point this out to them whilst offering goodwill refunds minus £X 

[awc1000 93]

guess its time for you to request / view their quote / invoice, it smells fishy, its not your fault his part time gardening round is not working in winter (who would have thought....)

If it was me after all this i think i would stand my ground for the time being on principal, i'm all for fareness but cant stand being hard balled by a customer, you can always throw him a refund next week if your not making progress, i would start by insisting he bring it back, its a fair request, and if you go his way its just giving him more reason to stand his ground and think your an easy touch, sounds daft but have a good look underneath too, if hes gardening he could have grounded it out easily?

at this point he might still be right, but there is something not quite right with this one, keep us posted

[trade vet 697]

The bottom line is that today you have to operate your business similar to M&S.It maybe unfair but if you dig your heels in you may get little help from Small Claims Court judges and Tradiing Standards Officers.It is the nature of the business,it is never going to be a respected profession whatever you do.

[Rory RSC 596]

Sorry to hear of your issue but it is all part of running the business and we have to be good at dealing with these sort of things. Speak to garage who have advised and quoted. Ask them to determine the fault. Ask why it is a fault. Ask how many miles left. Ask when it needs replacing. 

I like to be right so if I was 100% confident that the clutch was working fine,  no slip - judder - vibration and it was just a high biting point as a charecteristic I would hold my ground. Simple reason being you have bought a used car with many miles, many many months beyond the original manufacturer warranty period. 

Sometimes these sort of customers are just unsure or worried that a clutch is going to cost £2k etc so you could always say worst case clutch needs replacing in next 12 months I can have it done for £300 ( insert amount) at trade rate for you. 

Stand by it, confirm its not a fault and confirm car runs and drives as intended. 

If its not on finance I would fight it, PM if you want a response letter looking over or anything.

 

Alternatively if they are bonkers and you want an easy life just give them their money back, add £300 to the price of the car and sell it again for more to nicer folk who you will never hear from again as a metaphorical middle finger at these gimps.

[Jack Regan 116]

clutch isn't slipping or they would of said , they never mentioned about biting point on test drive , buyers remorse for sure .