Refusal of repair

[Mojo121 229]

Quick annoying customer question - in the event of an oil leak (unconfirmed quantity) within the first 3 days of purchase can a customer exercise their short term right to reject? Car is 13 years old. 

My thought is that oil seals can and will perish after 13 years so I consider it to be a statutory repair. I’ve offered to repair but sadly the customer continues to refuse and appears to have decided it’s just a wrong’un.

Not willing to roll over on this one though.

[andymc1973 199]

I’d just get it back, life’s too short, let him be a prick with someone else 

[EPV 631]

The devil is in the detail. 

A correctly worded pdi would state no such leak at the time of sale and said customer would sign it and therefore making it virtually impossible to prove it was there at point of sale. 

No correctly worded pdi leaves you vulnerable. 

Suggest to him that he returns it to you for further inspection and diagnosis. You’ll soon know if this is buyers remorse or a genuine issue. Take it from there. 

[justina3 518]

After 3 days even if you win your argument that customer sounds a right plonker and will be with you with every squeak and rattle for the next six months. 

Car shouldnt have done any mileage should still be prep clean ish ! i would get it back asap give him his money back minus £200 until he gives you the log book back if its gone to the dvla and get on with your day.

I find headaches like this put you in such a bad mood for days i lose sales as i am such a grumpy git.

[Mojo121 229]

Okay.

The customer lives 2.5 hours away. If I offer a refund or repair do I have to collect it? I don’t have anything on my paper work regarding this.

It seems unreasonable to take two people out of the office for collectively 10 hours when I’ve done everything by the book?

[trade vet 703]

I bet the oil leak is nothing.Reminds me of the time I sold our close friends a Metro so the wife could use it as a runnabout.It was mint,low miler etc.Hoewever a few days later they called to tell us about a severe oil leak and their stress etc.So I go round and there was a small spec of oil on their drive.I say thats nowt,it’s a Metro,they all do that.However our friend has OCD with cleaning and their loft is cleaner than our lounge.She could not stand the thought or the shame of having a small oil mark on her block paving which the neighbours might see.I told them to go and buy a new car and they did.

[MSP Motors 39]

Its all on what type of customer you have. I have it worded on my invoice that in the event of a CRA claim, it is the customers responsibility to return the vehicle. They have to sign and date it. However, the guy I work with has nothing. He just had a suspected engine blow and had made the customer return the car at the customers expense. 

Paperwork helps with the big picture, but if you have a screamer, they will be a screamer regardless of paperwork. Even if you have the greatest paperwork in history of car sales.... If you get the wrong judge at court..... All the paperwork in the world won't help.

If this was me, I'd be asking for a garage report or for them to bring the car back so I could inspect the car.

[Trident 24]

57 minutes ago, Mojo121 said:

Okay.

The customer lives 2.5 hours away. If I offer a refund or repair do I have to collect it? I don’t have anything on my paper work regarding this.

It seems unreasonable to take two people out of the office for collectively 10 hours when I’ve done everything by the book?

You need a 'return to base' statement on your paperwork, without it, its a) a row and  a collection!! you can however reasonably charge .50 pence per mile travelled, again a row without it on your paperwork. I would probably state the latter, and suggest he takes it to a local garage for inspection/repair, you will pay them directly over the phone, we have had two leaky perished seals in the last month, not one since trading till now!! it's an easy fix for a local garage, he will be out of pocket if he returns it!!

[It's me 615]

1 hour ago, Mojo121 said:

Quick annoying customer question - in the event of an oil leak (unconfirmed quantity) within the first 3 days of purchase can a customer exercise their short term right to reject? Car is 13 years old. 

My thought is that oil seals can and will perish after 13 years so I consider it to be a statutory repair. I’ve offered to repair but sadly the customer continues to refuse and appears to have decided it’s just a wrong’un.

Not willing to roll over on this one though.

you wont win

an oil leak is obviously a major fault

if you dont nip it the next thing you will get a call telling you the engine wont turn over and its cost £200 to recover it to their local garage

then its letter before action

then you lose in court

sounds bad but if selling cars the other side of the country you need more small print than anything to cover yourself

ive just turned down a long distance seller on a car before theyve even set off

ps you cannot charge them to collect this car

you are taking away their statutory rights

[Mojo121 229]

I’ve asked her to get it inspected, multiple times, which finally she has agreed to. Originally I was told they couldn’t get it looked at for 2 weeks (!) which rang alarm bells which is when I asked for it to be brought back or I offered to contact mechanics local to her and arrange at my cost. She then tried to book it into Main Dealer at £99 p/h! In view of this I’ve offered upto £50 for diagnosis which (I think) more than enough for them to tell me where the oil is coming from.

I can’t recall the amount of times I’ve told them I’m happy to get it repaired. An oil leak can be major or minor, that’s what I’m trying to establish. I’ve also told her to monitor the level which she confirmed she is comfortable with doing.

Lesson learned about long distance selling!

[MattR 177]

Maybe try and help her out with a garage recommendation? whereabouts is she? if she is near to one of us, we could suggest a garage that wont rip you off

[NOACROSS 414]

Good idea of Matt's that.

I sell lots long distance and they're no more or less prone to grief than local stuff. 

Long as you do your job properly, Pdi, no advisory MOT etc and get them to test drive and sign to say they are happy and they note there are no faults at the time of sale, you're good to go.

With the out of area ones, I always put a paid warranty on too.  It doesn't always absolve me of the chance of future responsibilities, but usually, the great majority of sales go past the warranty period without any comebacks. Problem is, we forget this and only remember the doom.

 

[EPV 631]

2 hours ago, Mojo121 said:

Okay.

The customer lives 2.5 hours away. If I offer a refund or repair do I have to collect it? I don’t have anything on my paper work regarding this.

It seems unreasonable to take two people out of the office for collectively 10 hours when I’ve done everything by the book?

If you haven’t explicitly said that the customer must return the vehicle in the event if a repair required then you’re on the back foot. It all depends on how much of a fight you want. Ultimately if this went all the way you’d lose, as said above. It’s not great to have to sell a car that’s changed owners so quickly so i’d say you’re doing the right thing, getting it diagnosed and assess the damage from there. 

Did you do a PDI? 

[BHM 994]

I sell quite a few older 4x4s so if I was concerned about oil leaks I’d go out of business! A 13 year old car with leaks, they should be grateful, it’ll stop the underside from corroding.

[Willoughby 15]

I'm broadly with BHM, if it was serious would have been noted on MOT at minimum as advisory, really depends just how bad it is.

At 13 years old wouldn't be surprised if the diff is a bit damp and oily, and probably PAS pump the same... so hence are also leaking - do these need replacing as well?

As I say really does depend just how bad it is, and how realistic the customer is......

 

[Mojo121 229]

On 09/05/2018 at 10:16 AM, Matt Reid said:

Maybe try and help her out with a garage recommendation? whereabouts is she? if she is near to one of us, we could suggest a garage that wont rip you off

Good idea! I will bear in mind.

Our (albeit basic) PDI doesn’t have a section for engine oil leaks. The more this goes on though the more I think it’s a ruse for something else. Lots of excuses etc. I’ve found a lot more out about the car and where it came from and I’m certain IF there is a leak it’s air con dripping, power steering or a pipe has literally just given way because the people who took it in are as straight as anything.

Maybe I came across too soft at the time off sale... but I’m still trying to hang onto my faith in people being generally alright 

Thank you all for your input. I think this forum is really helping all of our businesses to properly deal with CRA issues. Will update as I go.

[Lakeside 94]

It’s swings and roundabouts with this one. In my eyes the more “offers” of returning the vehicle for repairs/problems you put on pdi’s, invoices etc the more it’s giving any customer reading it the green light to complain about anything and everything. Yet on the other hand if you don’t cover youself for anything you run the risk of the customer using their own garage and screwing you. 

I’m still amazed the amount of customers that still believe they have no rights when buying a used car and think it’s all still sold as seen basis unless a warrenty is issued.

Obvioulsly I don’t mind helping customers out if its a genuine problem on my behalf but I’ll only go out of my way for the minimum I need to, I can’t be dealing with customers taking the p.

[BHM 994]

2 hours ago, Lakeside said:

It’s swings and roundabouts with this one. In my eyes the more “offers” of returning the vehicle for repairs/problems you put on pdi’s, invoices etc the more it’s giving any customer reading it the green light to complain about anything and everything.

Too bloody true! There’s none of that here & I rarely get any comebacks. 

3 hours ago, Lakeside said:

I’m still amazed the amount of customers that still believe they have no rights when buying a used car and think it’s all still sold as seen basis unless a warrenty is issued.

Again you’re correct and this is absolutely fine by me. I’m in the business of selling cars, NOT coaching the general public in consumer rights & the exercising of them at my expense.

2 hours ago, tradex said:

The average life of a car is now 13 years so it's on borrowed time.

You should see a customer’s face when you educate them to this fact. Choke! you’d think you’d asked for nude photos of their daughter! 

[andymc1973 199]

I had a mate up my way used to set the dogs on problem punters and if it went further just threaten them, done the trick

[grant8064 219]

4 hours ago, tradex said:

 

The average life of a car is now 13 years so it's on borrowed time.

Think I need to upgrade some of my stock....i'll have to apply for a waste license if not!

[Mojo121 229]

Update!

So, no engine oil leak. Turns out, according to the ambitiously priced Jeep Health Check, it's from the transmission cooler and pipes, which also service the AC??... has anyone had any experience with these and what would be your response considering all the facts?

The other bits they picked up on are non-issues.

[MattR 177]

She took a 13 year old car to Jeep?? 

[Mojo121 229]

24 minutes ago, Matt Reid said:

She took a 13 year old car to Jeep?? 

Uh-huh. Yep. Tell me about it.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

I would ask Jeep if they think its fit for purpose and usable for a 13 year old car...... Speak to someone who isn't a sales robot. 

[metcars 397]

3 hours ago, Mojo121 said:

Update!

So, no engine oil leak. Turns out, according to the ambitiously priced Jeep Health Check, it's from the transmission cooler and pipes, which also service the AC??... has anyone had any experience with these and what would be your response considering all the facts?

The other bits they picked up on are non-issues.

A 'Jeep health check', and they only found a trans cooler pipe leaking? Win!