The IMDA

[SuperLease 13]

Does anyone have the definitive supplier list for this association? I read yesterday that membership is now Free so keen to know who we would get access to.

[Stalker 180]

Its gone very quiet, I have just read that it is now free to join until 2019.

Surely if you are keen to get people on board, this forum would be a good place to brandish this?

"How much does it cost?

Here’s the best bit

It’s absolutely FREE! No it’s not an error, as an association we want to help you and until 19-01-19* there is no charge to get all the benefits of being an approved IMDA Member."

There is no note on the website to go with the *?

 

So what is the *?

 

Unless Ive missed it?

 

[LawJaw 50]

1 hour ago, Stalker said:

Here’s the best bit

It’s absolutely FREE! No it’s not an error, as an association we want to help you and until 19-01-19* there is no charge to get all the benefits of being an approved IMDA Member."

There is no note on the website to go with the *?

 

So what is the *?

 

Unless Ive missed it?

 

May we congratulate the IMDA on their 'relaunch' of the Association.

Free membership is attractive and tempting for any motor trader, but the devil is always in the detail.

We believe the * is referring to the terms and conditions.

CAVEAT EMPTOR - let the buyer beware

The Association has chosen to adopt terms and conditions containing some pernicious terms to prevent members leaving after they joined ‘free’, and can subsequently impose, at will, any level of fees for the next years future membership.

The terms and conditions, which are often found in umbrageous commercial contracts (they are illegal in consumer contracts) and limit termination of the contract to only those who write to terminate some 90 days before the end of the contract. Of course, at this time, if the members relationship is unused or of little value, this clause is often overlooked. You put the contract aside thinking that ‘it cost you nothing and you won’t bother to renew’. At the renewal date you then find that you are tied into a contract for a further year, while IMDA are free to increase the renewal amount as they choose - £1, £100, £1,000 or any other amount!

These contracts are legal for ordinary commercial organisations but where an association holds itself out to be “non-profit making” and is allegedly passionate about the motor trade, then one has to ask, “Who benefits from the 90-day Clause?”.

If the answer is ‘anyone’ except ‘the Motor Trade’, then the original claim in the advertisement of “Free Membership” may be considered misleading and is likely to deceive traders and effect their economic behaviour. Such advertisements are prohibited and constitute a criminal offence.

We urge the IMDA to consider deleting those terms and conditions as a matter of urgency.

On 11/9/2017 at 3:05 PM, LawJaw said:

Dear IMDA,

 

Please understand my previous post was not a personal attack on the IMDA or what you wish to achieve. A question was asked on a public forum about a matter that had potential legal ramifications for the association itself as well as for our members who would seek to join. We entered the conversation to bring some clarity to the issue, not to in any way discredit the IMDA.

 

I stand by what I said in my email when you invited Lawgistics to quote for running your legal helpline. I wrote, “I really want the IMDA to work, the industry needs it and the independents are ready for it... but they need to join for the right reasons.”

 

I also wrote, “We are also passionate about giving the independents a voice and have publicly challenged authorities and federations when they have disadvantaged or knocked them.” We are not suggesting that this was the case with the IMDA but felt the forum question had not been answered. You are now an association, offering services to the Motor Trade and it is only natural for us to ask questions on our members behalf and give our opinion... that’s what we do.

 

We are very pleased to see that Motortrademe have now removed the Limited Company from their website which goes some way to meeting the legal requirements and no doubt further changes will follow.

 

We also note with interest that IMDA is to be a non-profit making association which, being altruistic, is to be highly commended.  Many such organisations enjoy charitable status and are closely scrutinized by the Charity Commission.  For others such scrutiny is left to the public domain.

 

For such organisations with that ethos, comes additional responsibility.  They have a fiduciary relationship with their members and potential members and must conduct all transactions uberrima fidei, in the utmost good faith. It must be clear to all concerned that in every transaction there is no personal pecuniary advantage for any officer or employee of the association.

 

However, to comply with the law and ensure an environment of openness and good faith we suggest you should immediately publish the details of ownership of Motortrademe and the platform they provide together with any details of any personal pecuniary advantage that may influence a prospective members decision to join.

 

To fail to do so will no doubt give rise to speculation that you do in fact have “something to hide”.

 

Dear IDMA,

In a previous post we asked you who owned Motortrade.me and questioned if there was any personal pecuniary advantage that would influence a prospective members decision to join.

This question was not directly answered but we notice that the “benefit of the platform at a value of £420” has been downgraded from being a main benefit and is now referred to as “our very own IMDA platform in association with Motortrade.me”.

From this development we can only assume that there is a personal pecuniary advantage to individuals within the association. If that is not the case, then now is the time to say so and answer the original question.

[RH Trading 80]

2 hours ago, SuperLease said:

Does anyone have the definitive supplier list for this association? I read yesterday that membership is now Free so keen to know who we would get access to.

think they have Aston Scott, Motornovo, motortrademe, finandfundmycar, and they must have motors and Manheim as the chap who works for them is a founder, I really want it to work and believe the industry needs a body like this to represent its interest and be a voice, think with the right will and the right people it may work. glad they scrapped the fee's think they must have been struggling to get sign up. Good luck to the magnificent 7 but please don't let it be another flop or vanity project like Jims autovolo council.

[Kieran @ Cazana 3]

I was at the Dealer summit yesterday and saw their announcement/presentation, it was very good and its clear they have the right intentions at heart.

They just seem like a good bunch of guys/dealers trying to help out their peers, they announced that as they now have a good number of suppliers, they can offer the first years membership for free now.

Im sure this will come out in an announcement email soon.

[LawJaw 50]

22 hours ago, Kieran @ Cazana said:

I was at the Dealer summit yesterday and saw their announcement/presentation, it was very good and its clear they have the right intentions at heart.

They just seem like a good bunch of guys/dealers trying to help out their peers, they announced that as they now have a good number of suppliers, they can offer the first years membership for free now.

Im sure this will come out in an announcement email soon.

We too have met the majority of these guys/dealers and can confirm they have the right intentions at heart. 

However, being a voice for the motor industry comes with a responsibility to ensure you do not put the very same people you wish to help at risk. Equally if you hold yourself as a judge as to, whether or not, prospective dealers are ‘law abiding and genuine’ then you yourselves have to adhere to the highest standards  of integrity. 

Both questions that have been asked by forum members are very reasonable and should be straight forward to answer. This the IMDA have failed to do.

These forum members, as ourselves, want to support the IMDA but they need to know the risk this may carry for their business before making an informed decision.

As the IMDA have a commercial relationship with another law firm, we can only act for our members and, where they are being ignored or misled, then to ask these questions on their behalf.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

.

[have a word with the wife 299]

2 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

.

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

6 hours ago, LawJaw said:

We too have met the majority of these guys/dealers and can confirm they have the right intentions at heart. 

However, being a voice for the motor industry comes with a responsibility to ensure you do not put the very same people you wish to help at risk. Equally if you hold yourself as a judge as to, whether or not, prospective dealers are ‘law abiding and genuine’ then you yourselves have to adhere to the highest standards  of integrity. 

Both questions that have been asked by forum members are very reasonable and should be straight forward to answer. This the IMDA have failed to do.

These forum members, as ourselves, want to support the IMDA but they need to know the risk this may carry for their business before making an informed decision.

As the IMDA have a commercial relationship with another law firm, we can only act for our members and, where they are being ignored or misled, then to ask these questions on their behalf.

I wholeheartedly believed in the IMDA, I was one of the first joiners. But pertinent questions were followed by patronising and belittling, almost bullying public responses. At that point the IMDA lost all credibility.

[metcars 397]

3 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I wholeheartedly believed in the IMDA, I was one of the first joiners. But pertinent questions were followed by patronising and belittling, almost bullying public responses. At that point the IMDA lost all credibility.

...  you've done it now, mention IMDA too many times and they'll appear! The highlight for me was being accused of unprofessionalism, but on the plus side I got a lot of phone numbers just in case I want to "talk about it"

Seriously, and unsurprisingly I'm out. I actually think it's a good idea to have a trade association as a voice for independents, but it's all about personalities, and they're not my 'cup of tea'

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Its a real shame, I was intrigued on the "Magnificent 7" being the voice.. But when you sell yourselves as the epitome of being "independent Motor Traders" you should act in that vein...

[SuperLease 13]

On 23/11/2017 at 8:55 PM, Arfur Dealy said:

Its a real shame, I was intrigued on the "Magnificent 7" being the voice.. But when you sell yourselves as the epitome of being "independent Motor Traders" you should act in that vein...

Looks like they’ve lost their voice. Not a single response to any of the previous questions put forward on this thread. A thread they started. Bizarre!!!

[Tadams 29]

i can't help but find it all very odd.. the "seven" seemed quite eager to defend themselves to start with but when deeper questions/concerns were raised they have given up. 

It's quite a strange approach to take, if you want people to join up and potentially donate then you would surely do everything within your power to instil confidence into those same people..maybe now the subscriber fee has gone no one wants to work for "free"  

[umesh 336]

 

 

I started the post on the IMDA as genuinely believe this is the way forward for the Independent dealers, together with like-minded colleagues we started the association, we all believe the Independent sector needs a voice, support and help not only to survive but to grow and reinvest.

 

 

 

A pipe dream some may say-maybe, we’ll see! I’ve met on this forum many dealers who have become friends over the years, we’ve helped each other, I get many calls – emails dealers asking for advice which I am more than pleased to help anyone in any way from my experience, knowledge or a simple chat.

 

 

 

The Association is not for everyone but we truly believe without the Independent’s having a voice WE the independent dealers will suffer long term, we are getting squeezed from every angle.

 

 

 

From the beginning of talking as a founding group we canvassed through our landing page asking fellow dealers and suppliers if they agreed with what we were proposing, to sign up with expressions of interest to join just such an association. At official launch we reached just under 700 expressions of interest from dealers and suppliers alike.

 

 

 

Whilst initially we launched with memberships fees for both dealers and suppliers alike it was quickly apparent that the higher than expected number of suppliers that joined immediately pushed up our finances to such an extent that we were able to allow dealer membership for Free until January 2019.  Other donations and fee’s also boosted the bank balance.

 

 

 

The early success with suppliers joining is now being seen with high amounts of like-minded dealers signing up to join the IMDA. All these early adopters both dealers and suppliers will start to benefit from joining straight away. The association is like nothing else with innovated products and services never seen before in an association. We are now seeing lots of those 700 expressions turning into memberships.

 

 

 

Regarding the Car Dealer Forum comments it was apparent that no constructive ground was going to be possible rather only negative energy was in evidence. Jim Reid and David Bilsborough both offered their numbers for contact including myself. So far no calls have been forthcoming. Given the nature of this we would welcome you to pick up the phone to Jim, David or myself but failing this please visit the www.theimda.co.uk for all details about the association. We are not at liberty to discuss anything more within this forum regarding the association rather we are letting dealers and suppliers rate us as an association by joining or not. We are pleased to report that hundreds have and are doing just this and applying to join.

 

Finally I would say you all know who I am and who all the founders are, we have nothing to hide and are fully transparent, we are all individuals and we all have our opinions but some of the comments on this forum are very personal, why?

 

We don’t have a magic wand but we’re doing something which has never been done in this industry ‘ An Independent Motor Dealers Association ‘ if’s it’s something you believe you’d like to join that’s great, if it’s not for you that is fine too. It is your choice.

 

 

 

Thanks for your time

 

Umesh 

 

Feel free to call me 01782 822 700 or umesh@autochange.co.uk

 

[LawJaw 50]

On 29/11/2017 at 8:31 AM, umesh said:

I started the post on the IMDA as genuinely believe this is the way forward for the Independent dealers, together with like-minded colleagues we started the association, we all believe the Independent sector needs a voice, support and help not only to survive but to grow and reinvest.

 

It is strange that the independent dealers voice has remained silent on many of the questions we have raised on behalf of prospective members... BUT, they are listening and have acted on our advice! 

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, be heard
 

When the IMDA asked ‘Lawgistics’ to quote to provide their prospective members with a legal helpline we advised that the main benefit of the association should be the “voice for the independents”. We offered to assist them in getting the Association’s legal terminology correct, write content for their website and promote their voice but they were adamant that dealers need more to get them to join. Often advice that is cautionary and lacks the glamour of the moment is put to one side. In this case they went to another law firm who aceeded to their requests. We believe that we work in an industry that are experts in negotiation and are quite able to create their own deals with suppliers.   The maxim “A stich in time saves nine” applies.
 

On the 5th November the IMDA launched, claiming savings of at least £370 because they had done a deal with a company called MotorTrade.Me to use their trade to trade platform that retailed at £420. In addition, they suggested that independents would no longer require lawyers as these services were also included within the membership fee of £250. They also offered access to an information and learning hub, daily blogs from industry experts, a wide range of offers from exclusive suppliers and a voice for the independent dealers. A comprehensive offer which, on the face of it, looked too good to be true. 

 

As may be expected it was not long before concerned dealers started to ask questions regarding the personal benefits received by the founder members and associated companies. As valid questions were ignored we made enquiries and found the MotorTrade.Me trade to trade platform was not being sold at £420 and the platform was owned by the IMDA or its founder member(s), in association with MotorTrade.Me. This has not been refuted in any way.
 

If you want to be the dealers voice, be transparent

 

On the 21st November the IMDA relaunched the membership package, offering free membership until 19/01/19 but removing the trade to trade platform from the main benefits and downgrading the legal help to telephone advice only. The offer of an information and learning hub, daily blogs from industry experts, a wide range of offers from exclusive suppliers and a voice for the independent dealers remained the same.

 

Again, questions were asked about catches, but no answers were forthcoming. We reviewed the dealer agreement and found the 90-day clause within the contract terms was deceptive and misleading.

 

We are pleased that the IMDA have now corrected this and believe the clause may have probably originated from their approved legal supplier.

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, be honest

 

We think the daily blogs and the learning hub is a great resource for subscribing members and trust they are going well. We do not believe the association needs to be packaged with a range of offers (marketing gimmicks) that may leave the Association liable for any failure on their part. The industry is wise and astute enough to know what a free lunch is. The strength of the IMDA is in its voice.

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, act with integrity

 

The Terms and Conditions, that members sign, before becoming a member contains two clauses that make it clear that the membership application is the complete agreement. Any additional offer, clarification of terms or variation, or any additional clauses put on the website, or advertising material, is NOT incorporated into the contract. Any change will require a reissue of every members contract.

 

 If you want to be the dealers voice, act with prudence

 

We are looking forward to hearing what the IMDA are going to be using their voice for. Will they be seeking dealer opinion prior to commencement? If they are the dealer’s voice will dealers have an input as to content, planning, inception, application and delivery?

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, act with probity

 

We hope we can continue to support the IMDA and the IMDA has something worthwhile to support.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Becca Chaplin
No outbound links

[Earunder 69]

I agree that there is a GAP in this industry and maybe an association could be the way forward although dealers are very very skeptical, myself included, about anything relating to this industry.  I have found some of the responses vague, the information about the actual services / products available hidden but I did find a welcome video which shows to me that the IMDA doesn't offer anything useful for my business.

I agree the power is in the numbers.  A simple and I do mean simple association with no gimmicks, no promises of `we can offer this and that` but just a simple association to simply say enough is enough and it's time dealers had a voice.  I think you've made something which should be so simple, into something more complicated and skeptical.

If you're doing something like an association then you shouldn't need to have a membership system for payment.  You need voices to be heard but you're putting a hand over the voices you want to speak. 

You should get the numbers first then start with offers.  Many dealers have their own lawyers in place, they have suppliers, good insurers, good accountants, etc.  Once you have the numbers then you can say ok, if you want to benefit from XYZ then it's XYZ per annum to those who want it.  Most just want to be heard.

Just my 2 cents, wish you all the best with it.

[SuperLease 13]

9 hours ago, umesh said:

 

 

I started the post on the IMDA as genuinely believe this is the way forward for the Independent dealers, together with like-minded colleagues we started the association, we all believe the Independent sector needs a voice, support and help not only to survive but to grow and reinvest.

 

 

 

A pipe dream some may say-maybe, we’ll see! I’ve met on this forum many dealers who have become friends over the years, we’ve helped each other, I get many calls – emails dealers asking for advice which I am more than pleased to help anyone in any way from my experience, knowledge or a simple chat.

 

 

 

The Association is not for everyone but we truly believe without the Independent’s having a voice WE the independent dealers will suffer long term, we are getting squeezed from every angle.

 

 

 

From the beginning of talking as a founding group we canvassed through our landing page asking fellow dealers and suppliers if they agreed with what we were proposing, to sign up with expressions of interest to join just such an association. At official launch we reached just under 700 expressions of interest from dealers and suppliers alike.

 

 

 

Whilst initially we launched with memberships fees for both dealers and suppliers alike it was quickly apparent that the higher than expected number of suppliers that joined immediately pushed up our finances to such an extent that we were able to allow dealer membership for Free until January 2019.  Other donations and fee’s also boosted the bank balance.

 

 

 

The early success with suppliers joining is now being seen with high amounts of like-minded dealers signing up to join the IMDA. All these early adopters both dealers and suppliers will start to benefit from joining straight away. The association is like nothing else with innovated products and services never seen before in an association. We are now seeing lots of those 700 expressions turning into memberships.

 

 

 

Regarding the Car Dealer Forum comments it was apparent that no constructive ground was going to be possible rather only negative energy was in evidence. Jim Reid and David Bilsborough both offered their numbers for contact including myself. So far no calls have been forthcoming. Given the nature of this we would welcome you to pick up the phone to Jim, David or myself but failing this please visit the www.theimda.co.uk for all details about the association. We are not at liberty to discuss anything more within this forum regarding the association rather we are letting dealers and suppliers rate us as an association by joining or not. We are pleased to report that hundreds have and are doing just this and applying to join.

 

Finally I would say you all know who I am and who all the founders are, we have nothing to hide and are fully transparent, we are all individuals and we all have our opinions but some of the comments on this forum are very personal, why?

 

We don’t have a magic wand but we’re doing something which has never been done in this industry ‘ An Independent Motor Dealers Association ‘ if’s it’s something you believe you’d like to join that’s great, if it’s not for you that is fine too. It is your choice.

 

 

 

Thanks for your time

 

Umesh 

 

Feel free to call me 01782 822 700 or umesh@autochange.co.uk

 

Our biggest overheads are auction fees and advertising. With one of the 7 working for COX surely you can negotiate us a special deal with both Manheim and Motors. I don’t expect you will ever be able to get us a deal with Autotrader though. I’ve read the exchanges between your Chairman and them in the past and I can’t imagine he’s welcome at their ivory towers any time soon. I also read an article in CD magazine only recently written by another of your founders Chris who too took to slagging Autotrader off. I don’t see how any of that type of activity will help us independents. The only voice we need is one that can get our prices down with the Autotraders the Mannheim’s and BCA. That’s where our margins are squeezed. You lot get that sorted and I would happily pay you a relative premium. In the meantime I will happily manage with the brilliant suppliers I somehow have managed to find on my own. 

[jimreidvehicle 255]

On 29/11/2017 at 2:35 PM, LawJaw said:

 

It is strange that the independent dealers voice has remained silent on many of the questions we have raised on behalf of prospective members... BUT, they are listening and have acted on our advice! 

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, be heard
 

When the IMDA asked ‘Lawgistics’ to quote to provide their prospective members with a legal helpline we advised that the main benefit of the association should be the “voice for the independents”. We offered to assist them in getting the Association’s legal terminology correct, write content for their website and promote their voice but they were adamant that dealers need more to get them to join. Often advice that is cautionary and lacks the glamour of the moment is put to one side. In this case they went to another law firm who aceeded to their requests. We believe that we work in an industry that are experts in negotiation and are quite able to create their own deals with suppliers.   The maxim “A stich in time saves nine” applies.
 

On the 5th November the IMDA launched, claiming savings of at least £370 because they had done a deal with a company called MotorTrade.Me to use their trade to trade platform that retailed at £420. In addition, they suggested that independents would no longer require lawyers as these services were also included within the membership fee of £250. They also offered access to an information and learning hub, daily blogs from industry experts, a wide range of offers from exclusive suppliers and a voice for the independent dealers. A comprehensive offer which, on the face of it, looked too good to be true. 

 

As may be expected it was not long before concerned dealers started to ask questions regarding the personal benefits received by the founder members and associated companies. As valid questions were ignored we made enquiries and found the MotorTrade.Me trade to trade platform was not being sold at £420 and the platform was owned by the IMDA or its founder member(s), in association with MotorTrade.Me. This has not been refuted in any way.
 

If you want to be the dealers voice, be transparent

 

On the 21st November the IMDA relaunched the membership package, offering free membership until 19/01/19 but removing the trade to trade platform from the main benefits and downgrading the legal help to telephone advice only. The offer of an information and learning hub, daily blogs from industry experts, a wide range of offers from exclusive suppliers and a voice for the independent dealers remained the same.

 

Again, questions were asked about catches, but no answers were forthcoming. We reviewed the dealer agreement and found the 90-day clause within the contract terms was deceptive and misleading.

 

We are pleased that the IMDA have now corrected this and believe the clause may have probably originated from their approved legal supplier.

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, be honest

 

We think the daily blogs and the learning hub is a great resource for subscribing members and trust they are going well. We do not believe the association needs to be packaged with a range of offers (marketing gimmicks) that may leave the Association liable for any failure on their part. The industry is wise and astute enough to know what a free lunch is. The strength of the IMDA is in its voice.

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, act with integrity

 

The Terms and Conditions, that members sign, before becoming a member contains two clauses that make it clear that the membership application is the complete agreement. Any additional offer, clarification of terms or variation, or any additional clauses put on the website, or advertising material, is NOT incorporated into the contract. Any change will require a reissue of every members contract.

 

 If you want to be the dealers voice, act with prudence

 

We are looking forward to hearing what the IMDA are going to be using their voice for. Will they be seeking dealer opinion prior to commencement? If they are the dealer’s voice will dealers have an input as to content, planning, inception, application and delivery?

 

If you want to be the dealers voice, act with probity

 

We hope we can continue to support the IMDA and the IMDA has something worthwhile to support.

 

It is disappointing that since not being selected as the provider of the IMDA legal helpline Lawgistics has chosen to actively undermine the association and cast aspersions on the motivation behind the involvement of the founder members.

 

 

The Motortrade.Me trade to trade platform is not owned by the IMDA or its founder members. We were approached by the owner with an offer to make the service available to members at a cost to the association. There was no personal benefit to the founder members or associated companies.

 

 

Following the launch on 5^th November the feedback we received was that, unlike other member benefits, the platform was not seen as a significant attraction, and we made the decision to remove it from the offering.

 

 

This together with the wide ranging support we have received from suppliers has meant that at the Motortrader Summit we were able to announce that membership would be free of charge until at least 19^th January 2019.

 

 

It has always been clear that the Legal Helpline was limited to telephone advice only. It has not been downgraded.

 

 

The membership agreement has always been available for prospective members to read, and in fact all applicants are asked to send in a signed copy. The 90 day termination clause was originally adopted by the founder members to provide stability, but was no longer appropriate once the membership was offered free of charge.

 

 

The aims of the IMDA are our four pillars

 

·         Buying Power

 

·         Voice

 

·         Support

 

·         Recognition

 

 

We will continue to consult with members about the most appropriate ways to pursue those aims. Members will also have the opportunity to elect committee members at a future AGM.

 

 

The association and its founding members will continue to act in good faith, with professionalism and integrity. Dealers and suppliers sharing those values will be very welcome at www.theimda.co.uk where you will also find contact details to discuss any specific issues directly.

 

 

We will not be responding further on this thread.

 

 

 

[D4B 0]

As a non motor trader lurking in the wings this thread is one of the more interesting.

I can see how your industry needs the IMDA in order to provide clout with the likes of Autotrader and the big auction houses (I’m afraid I was once an estate agent as well as a car dealer and had the same issues with Rightmove abusing their position, they were a necessary and extremely expensive evil), as well as an industry voice to represent the honest and professional members of what is seen as a dodgy trade (same as estate agents, but again the public are worse!!!)

The shame of it is that I have seen members of the IMDA appear to get grumpy and truculent on this thread when faced with some relatively easy questions from friends and potential customers. My thought would be how do these same people represent your industry on, say, Radio 4 when John Humphrey starts going at them in a feature on dodgy car dealers.

The irony is that I have seen them offer generous and professional advice on this same forum so have no doubt they could actually do the job. 

I too was surprised at LawJaw, the problem lay people have when upsetting legal boffins is that they will always come off second best on a forum like this. LawJaw will no doubt say they are protecting their paid up members , quite rightly, and that the chosen legal representatives of IMDA should have done a better job, quite rightly, and LawJaw have provided free advice that all will benefit from, quite rightly. Lawyers are their to be friends of the people that pay them only.

I hope the IMDA can continue to grow with all members safe in the knowledge that the association represents them in the best way possible, pressures the large companies to play fair with pricing and service, and more importantly don’t claim disproportionately high expenses out like an MP would. Surely that is what it’s all about, you are all on the same side aren’t you?

[Row 71]

I think they should be commended for what they are doing, after all you can either join or not so what's the problem.

[trade vet 703]

1 hour ago, D4B said:

As a non motor trader lurking in the wings this thread is one of the more interesting.

I can see how your industry needs the IMDA in order to provide clout with the likes of Autotrader and the big auction houses (I’m afraid I was once an estate agent as well as a car dealer and had the same issues with Rightmove abusing their position, they were a necessary and extremely expensive evil), as well as an industry voice to represent the honest and professional members of what is seen as a dodgy trade (same as estate agents, but again the public are worse!!!)

The shame of it is that I have seen members of the IMDA appear to get grumpy and truculent on this thread when faced with some relatively easy questions from friends and potential customers. My thought would be how do these same people represent your industry on, say, Radio 4 when John Humphrey starts going at them in a feature on dodgy car dealers.

The irony is that I have seen them offer generous and professional advice on this same forum so have no doubt they could actually do the job. 

I too was surprised at LawJaw, the problem lay people have when upsetting legal boffins is that they will always come off second best on a forum like this. LawJaw will no doubt say they are protecting their paid up members , quite rightly, and that the chosen legal representatives of IMDA should have done a better job, quite rightly, and LawJaw have provided free advice that all will benefit from, quite rightly. Lawyers are their to be friends of the people that pay them only.

I hope the IMDA can continue to grow with all members safe in the knowledge that the association represents them in the best way possible, pressures the large companies to play fair with pricing and service, and more importantly don’t claim disproportionately high expenses out like an MP would. Surely that is what it’s all about, you are all on the same side aren’t you?

You never know,John Humphries might go easy on Jim Reid as he is a Scotsman.Its the BBC,he would not want to be accused of racism or non inclusiveness !

[Tadams 29]

Baffled by both Jim's and Umesh's response ... if there is nothing to hide then bury the concerns people have raised... i'm not saying you do have anything to hide at all but having the wealth of knowledge in the industry and within business the founding members have i would presume that you know how valuable reputation is ? 

There is a forum full of potential members and to grown the IMDA as you plan you need as many new members as possible. 

It seems to be the founding members are very protective of what they have created and why not... its your baby, but to reply in the manner that you have done seems to deter people from being involved rather than encourage them.   

In essence above @LawJaw have acted as a neutral platform to voice the concerns of a dealer but from a legal perspective........ THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT THE IMDA TO DO AND BE so why make it sound like they are having a pop because of they don't work with you or you with them ??

soooo confused by the actions of the IMDA.... 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Tadams

[RH Trading 80]

Shall we start again and forget November 5th happened?

Think the problem is the confusion from the start and a few points that reputable honest motor dealers have raised that have not been addressed but rather brushed aside in a condescending and patronising manor. I too applaud the sentiment and core values, I warmly welcomed the announcement and considered applying but wondered what I'd get for my £300. I have been in the industry for many years, growing my business, building contacts and making friends amongst many many people, dealers, suppliers and customers alike. People asked for a list of suppliers, we where told that Motortrade me was free to members but its a failed business that they tried to package as a value added product. asked if they could get discounts worth joining for, any money off the autotrader bill, and money off BCA, or Manheim - no reply

Last year we where told to get on-board with Jim Reids Autovolo dealer council 1000 voices.http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/jim-reid-named-head-autovolo-dealer-council/119857 a scheme which sank without a trace but wanted investment from dealers.

They styled themselves as the "Magnificent 7" "Industry heavyweights" they would only accept reputable dealers into their club , Can I ask just how you decide who is reputable? - No offence but I've never heard of 5 of the 7 magnificent 7,  Who are you to decide if I'm an honest and reputable motor dealer? better to ask my 100's of happy customers and I'll let my own customers decide after reading my 147 five star autotrader reviews

One of them works for Cox but is moonlighting for the IMDA so asked what that connection is? - never heard a reply.

Now its free to enter their club, but they're asking for donations.We were also advised to cancel our stock contracts with the autotrader. unfortunately advise which cost me several thousands of pounds in lost sales and hence the basis of my reticence to jump on board whole heartedly,

To end your post with "We will not be responding further to this thread" is beyond arrogant. You started this post, genuine questions and concerns were raised, no answers given.David , Umesh, Jim et al - to be a VOICE of the Industry surely you have to also LISTEN to the industry, not pack up, get on your horse and ride off into the sunset, 3 weeks after you've started your club

I tend not to jump on threads and forums as generally its just negative and depressing posts but have been fascinated watching this unfold and get angrier and angrier with the replies. genuinely wanted this to take off but left with so many unanswered questions and doubts, think if I applied now I wouldn't be accepted into the cliq

I'm saddened in a way, not for me, I have my own voice, I have my own business (built quite nicely without needing anyone to speak for me for the past 25+ years) I have my own suppliers, I have my own legal advisory service, I'm sad for the lost opportunity and squandered good will, and time I've now wasted writing this post because as Jim says - they wont be listening or replying

[ik1980 11]

2 hours ago, D4B said:

As a non motor trader lurking in the wings this thread is one of the more interesting.

I can see how your industry needs the IMDA in order to provide clout with the likes of Autotrader and the big auction houses (I’m afraid I was once an estate agent as well as a car dealer and had the same issues with Rightmove abusing their position, they were a necessary and extremely expensive evil), as well as an industry voice to represent the honest and professional members of what is seen as a dodgy trade (same as estate agents, but again the public are worse!!!)

The shame of it is that I have seen members of the IMDA appear to get grumpy and truculent on this thread when faced with some relatively easy questions from friends and potential customers. My thought would be how do these same people represent your industry on, say, Radio 4 when John Humphrey starts going at them in a feature on dodgy car dealers.

The irony is that I have seen them offer generous and professional advice on this same forum so have no doubt they could actually do the job. 

I too was surprised at LawJaw, the problem lay people have when upsetting legal boffins is that they will always come off second best on a forum like this. LawJaw will no doubt say they are protecting their paid up members , quite rightly, and that the chosen legal representatives of IMDA should have done a better job, quite rightly, and LawJaw have provided free advice that all will benefit from, quite rightly. Lawyers are their to be friends of the people that pay them only.

I hope the IMDA can continue to grow with all members safe in the knowledge that the association represents them in the best way possible, pressures the large companies to play fair with pricing and service, and more importantly don’t claim disproportionately high expenses out like an MP would. Surely that is what it’s all about, you are all on the same side aren’t you?

argh don't get me started on rightmove! 

[trade vet 703]

2 hours ago, RH Trading said:

Shall we start again and forget November 5th happened?

Think the problem is the confusion from the start and a few points that reputable honest motor dealers have raised that have not been addressed but rather brushed aside in a condescending and patronising manor. I too applaud the sentiment and core values, I warmly welcomed the announcement and considered applying but wondered what I'd get for my £300. I have been in the industry for many years, growing my business, building contacts and making friends amongst many many people, dealers, suppliers and customers alike. People asked for a list of suppliers, we where told that Motortrade me was free to members but its a failed business that they tried to package as a value added product. asked if they could get discounts worth joining for, any money off the autotrader bill, and money off BCA, or Manheim - no reply

Last year we where told to get on-board with Jim Reids Autovolo dealer council 1000 voices.http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/jim-reid-named-head-autovolo-dealer-council/119857 a scheme which sank without a trace but wanted investment from dealers.

They styled themselves as the "Magnificent 7" "Industry heavyweights" they would only accept reputable dealers into their club , Can I ask just how you decide who is reputable? - No offence but I've never heard of 5 of the 7 magnificent 7,  Who are you to decide if I'm an honest and reputable motor dealer? better to ask my 100's of happy customers and I'll let my own customers decide after reading my 147 five star autotrader reviews

One of them works for Cox but is moonlighting for the IMDA so asked what that connection is? - never heard a reply.

Now its free to enter their club, but they're asking for donations.We were also advised to cancel our stock contracts with the autotrader. unfortunately advise which cost me several thousands of pounds in lost sales and hence the basis of my reticence to jump on board whole heartedly,

To end your post with "We will not be responding further to this thread" is beyond arrogant. You started this post, genuine questions and concerns were raised, no answers given.David , Umesh, Jim et al - to be a VOICE of the Industry surely you have to also LISTEN to the industry, not pack up, get on your horse and ride off into the sunset, 3 weeks after you've started your club

I tend not to jump on threads and forums as generally its just negative and depressing posts but have been fascinated watching this unfold and get angrier and angrier with the replies. genuinely wanted this to take off but left with so many unanswered questions and doubts, think if I applied now I wouldn't be accepted into the cliq

I'm saddened in a way, not for me, I have my own voice, I have my own business (built quite nicely without needing anyone to speak for me for the past 25+ years) I have my own suppliers, I have my own legal advisory service, I'm sad for the lost opportunity and squandered good will, and time I've now wasted writing this post because as Jim says - they wont be listening or replying

Hi RH

Did they actually call themselves ‘lndustry heavyweights ‘.Having searched one or two of them,that is definateley not the case.