'Amateur' Valuation Options

[SAPFO 1]

As I've said in the newbie thread, i'm putting in a year or so's research before I totally dive into this game. I tend to sit around the auctions when I can, seeing what cars sell for, and then cross referencing that against the likes of AT valuations, AT ads, CartKit, & Hpi valuations based on their condition etc.. All those mentioned are free, but with daily limits, which I am hitting every bloody time. Hpi is Cap. Now on their website, they have that many products I don't know what would be suitable for an 'amateur', and the prices dont show. Anybody know of a paid service I could use. I don't mind a few quid per month so long as it's roughly accurate.

[Cornish Guy 45]

The valuations are only a guide! They are often as useful as a chocolate teapot.

[BHM 994]

if you need an "expert" valuation on every car you see I suggest you get yourself down to the Jobcentre.

[SAPFO 1]

Just now, BHM said:

if you need an "expert" valuation on every car you see I suggest you get yourself down to the Jobcentre.

Why would I need to do that? I've already got a job, in fact, I'll soon have two jobs as it happens. If I get into the motor trade, then I'll have 3 jobs. I don't like sitting on my arse mate. If I could earn money while I'm sleeping, id feckin do it.

 

Now are you going to offer me anything productive or what? Not everybody is blessed with the instant valuation skills you obviously have probably gained by years of experience. Ive got an idea of what cars are worth, and like to use the guides as said above, 'as a guide'. But I am hitting my limit, hence there question. 

 

Would you prefer I just jump into the trade and make the experience worse all around for the customer, further blacking the name of the motor trader?

[It's me 615]

29 minutes ago, SAPFO said:

Would you prefer I just jump into the trade and make the experience worse all around for the customer, further blacking the name of the motor trader?

for the benefit of the great unwashed could you please explain how a car valuation will pdi a car

[trade vet 702]

Hi Sapfo,- one year to learn this difficult business,that is very optimistic.Firstly what do you want to sell,do you want a pitch (sales premises) or just be a doorstepper (sell from home)

[Max Branning 149]

37 minutes ago, SAPFO said:

Why would I need to do that? I've already got a job, in fact, I'll soon have two jobs as it happens. If I get into the motor trade, then I'll have 3 jobs. I don't like sitting on my arse mate. If I could earn money while I'm sleeping, id feckin do it.

 

Now are you going to offer me anything productive or what? Not everybody is blessed with the instant valuation skills you obviously have probably gained by years of experience. Ive got an idea of what cars are worth, and like to use the guides as said above, 'as a guide'. But I am hitting my limit, hence there question. 

 

Would you prefer I just jump into the trade and make the experience worse all around for the customer, further blacking the name of the motor trader?

37 minutes ago, SAPFO said:

Why would I need to do that? I've already got a job, in fact, I'll soon have two jobs as it happens. If I get into the motor trade, then I'll have 3 jobs. I don't like sitting on my arse mate. If I could earn money while I'm sleeping, id feckin do it.

 

Now are you going to offer me anything productive or what? Not everybody is blessed with the instant valuation skills you obviously have probably gained by years of experience. Ive got an idea of what cars are worth, and like to use the guides as said above, 'as a guide'. But I am hitting my limit, hence there question. 

 

Would you prefer I just jump into the trade and make the experience worse all around for the customer, further blacking the name of the motor trader?

The only way to really get an idea of what a car will sell for is to actually sell one.

This means going out and buying one to sell.

Nothing wrong with doing research etc and sitting at the auctions all day checking prices but this game goes up and down so much its unbelievable. 

I have seen cars at auction selling for maybe 50% over trade "guide " price. The guide prices are useless really these days, the only time i really rely on them now is for valuing part exchanges as something to show the customer what their car is worth according to the guide.

 

 

[SAPFO 1]

Assuming you mean pre del inspection. Do you mean factoring the cost of it into the valuation? Ive not even got that far yet. Im just looking to see what cars are selling for at auction, against what you can sell them for in the real world. Obviously then you'd have to factor in a pdi and a load of other overheads, and then judge whether the whole process is worth it.

Can you suggest another way to learn that I may be missing that you think is better than the route I'm taking?

 

Just for fun here are a few cars that sold this week over in Birmingham.

HV56WAA - £1400 including the fee's

KY58KZA - £1950 inc fees

BP55BGZ - £1050 in fees

VE55VHJ - £2100 in fees

FD57BHV - £1100 in fees

BK55ZVT  - £1650 in fees

VF04TVM - £500 in fees

C17CPL - £2450 in fees

20 minutes ago, trade vet said:

Hi Sapfo,- one year to learn this difficult business,that is very optimistic.Firstly what do you want to sell,do you want a pitch (sales premises) or just be a doorstepper (sell from home)

1 year is not set in stone mate. More like 2 at least in reality as I need to clear some bills. I'll take as long as it takes mate. It will be a total lifestyle I'm hoping. I would like a pitch, but I know jumping straight into a pitch & buying 15 cars could be suicide, so maybe gaining experience on the doorstep would be wise for a start, and doing it all legally would be the way as it would give me time to build a small profile to get on the likes of Cartotrade etc

 

 

13 minutes ago, Max Branning said:

The only way to really get an idea of what a car will sell for is to actually sell one.

This means going out and buying one to sell.

Nothing wrong with doing research etc and sitting at the auctions all day checking prices but this game goes up and down so much its unbelievable. 

I have seen cars at auction selling for maybe 50% over trade "guide " price. The guide prices are useless really these days, the only time i really rely on them now is for valuing part exchanges as something to show the customer what their car is worth according to the guide.

 

 

Ive seen that too. Aygo's goo high at auction I've noticed

[justina3 518]

Just for fun here are a few cars that sold this week over in Birmingham.

HV56WAA - £1400 including the fee's

KY58KZA - £1950 inc fees

BP55BGZ - £1050 in fees

VE55VHJ - £2100 in fees

FD57BHV - £1100 in fees

BK55ZVT  - £1650 in fees

VF04TVM - £500 in fees

C17CPL - £2450 in fees

 

 

Sorry mate those reg's mean nothing to me and inc fees also confuses me as everyone is on different rates or do you mean those are the rates that would apply to you? 

Its a very hard industry to get into i cant think of an easy way to learn it like say you took up mechanics or painting its a school of hard knocks.

[SAPFO 1]

Those where the hammer prices inc the auction houses buyer fee's that I quoted. Sorry, I assumed some of you would have access the the vehicle details from the reg. When I get time I might stick the model up as it may interest some mot you to see what cars are going for in the Midlands. What I was doing was cross-referencing the hammer price against the very lowest price of the same spec on AT as a baseline guide.

 

You can make money out of cars, or you lot wouldn't be doing it would you lets be honest? I've got no dreams of taking on Evans Halshaw. I just wouldn't mind being my own boss and making a similar living to the one I have. Maybe when I sell this house next year, I may get one with a bigger drive and looking into working from home, I know that has its pitfalls as I've read. I ain't stupid, I know enough about cars & fault finding to get me by. I have mechanics in the family, paint repair etc, and as a kid I was an apprentice mechanic, and as also in another job a recovery technician where I picked up enough knowledge from the mechanics.

 

 

I also recently won a Golf on eBay for 156 quid with various problems. Initially I got it for the Mrs. I was going to smarten it up, give it her, and then sell her car. I ended up doing my own fault finding with a VAG machine I have for my Skoda Superb. I changed an ABS sensor and got ABS light off, changed 2 rear callipers, fixed the brake warning light, (wire was broken), bled the brakes, changed a drop link. So I am not an alien to the basics. I also known how to roughly read how a car has been looked after from the MOT history, i.e. tread depth & brakes keep popping up, they ain't looking after it are they, and then they probably ain't servicing it to schedule.

 

 

Look, I don't know, thats why I'm here, to pick your brains, not be put off.

 

 

 

[MrC 142]

Just speak to my customers, they think they know the value of everything.

[Ocsltd 133]

16 minutes ago, MrC said:

Just speak to my customers, they think they know the value of everything.

[andymc1973 199]

with all due respect no one is going to tell you how to do, we're not a charity, every day's a school day in this trade

[trade vet 702]

From what you say,forget car sales,start a workshop.That is where the money is now.Our local Audi dealer for instance are nowcharging £180 per hour.There are not many small workshops charging less than £40 per hour.Once you get a workshop going ,you could always try and sell the odd car alongside.

Small pitches now with 2 or 3 staff with all the overheads can cost over £2000 per week to run.So to pay everyone and earn £25k for yourself you need to turnover at least £1m per year,because the net margins are so small these days.

[andymc1973 199]

also you do know running from home will cause issues with the council, anyone wanting to start this job with the cra2015 in ful swing needs their head checking

[Ken 10]

I would suggest you find a car in the block or on Dealer Auction etc that you're interested in and find it's true value on Auto trader etc work backwards . Then deduct potential costs like body work issues and potential mechanical issues to achieve the margin you want after costs. I tend to stick with Cars that have been AA appraised at BCA. At least you have some come back then if it drops a bollock on the way home. Or I go and personally inspect cars I buy from Dealer Auction. I’ve refused many! You get to know the good dealers from the Bad on there.

22 minutes ago, andymc1973 said:

with all due respect no one is going to tell you how to do, we're not a charity, every day's a school day in this trade

He was asking for advice.........

Edited June 7, 2017 by Ken

[M.J 35]

Not trying to be funny, its a genuine question, but why on earth are you dedicating 2 years or more of your life to research an industry which is probably at its worst state in years for dealers due to the small margins, increased advertising costs, phenomenal lease deals, car supermarkets selling at rock bottom prices and to top it off, the cra2015 ???

 

[SAPFO 1]

1 hour ago, andymc1973 said:

also you do know running from home will cause issues with the council, anyone wanting to start this job with the cra2015 in ful swing needs their head checking

Yes, Ive seen the grumbles on here about that. Something like that could kill a new trader dean I suppose.

 

58 minutes ago, Ken said:

I would suggest you find a car in the block or on Dealer Auction etc that you're interested in and find it's true value on Auto trader etc work backwards . Then deduct potential costs like body work issues and potential mechanical issues to achieve the margin you want after costs. I tend to stick with Cars that have been AA appraised at BCA. At least you have some come back then if it drops a bollock on the way home. Or I go and personally inspect cars I buy from Dealer Auction. I’ve refused many! You get to know the good dealers from the Bad on there.

He was asking for advice.........

Thanks. The kind of advice I was seeking. Ive been watching the AA appraised ones. Maybe I should go and see what they are going for, not forgetting the £500 they stick on top.

 

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

From what you say,forget car sales,start a workshop.That is where the money is now.Our local Audi dealer for instance are nowcharging £180 per hour.There are not many small workshops charging less than £40 per hour.Once you get a workshop going ,you could always try and sell the odd car alongside.

Small pitches now with 2 or 3 staff with all the overheads can cost over £2000 per week to run.So to pay everyone and earn £25k for yourself you need to turnover at least £1m per year,because the net margins are so small these days.

There is a local garage I use. Indian fella. Not VAT registered, but employs 3 people, drives a Bentley, and owns a feckin plane. Not doing to bad for himself thats for sure. I wish I would have stuck the mechanics out. Too busy with women at that age though.

 

My day job pays 37k, plus I'm about to do some Ubering on the side. I want to be retired in 20ish years (34 now)

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, M.J said:

Not trying to be funny, its a genuine question, but why on earth are you dedicating 2 years or more of your life to research an industry which is probably at its worst state in years for dealers due to the small margins, increased advertising costs, phenomenal lease deals, car supermarkets selling at rock bottom prices and to top it off, the cra2015 ???

 

Not gonna spend all my life on it, just considering the options, and comments like that are useful, and it does make me think. It may turn out not be worthwhile in the end. Ive got a mate who does trade to trade. He does ok for himself with vans & pickups. He never knows where he's gonna be.

[Max Branning 149]

if you are earning 37k a year in your day job then my advice would be stick with that !

Unless of course you really hate the job and absolutely love cars?

 

[have a word with the wife 299]

7 hours ago, SAPFO said:

Why would I need to do that? I've already got a job, in fact, I'll soon have two jobs as it happens. If I get into the motor trade, then I'll have 3 jobs. I don't like sitting on my arse mate. If I could earn money while I'm sleeping, id feckin do it.

 

so when can you actually be available to "sell" these cars ? average time to make a sale is lets say a hour including test drive ? lets assume they buy it, then they tell you theyre coming at 5 to collect and dont turn up till 5.45 then another lets say half hour, paperwork, smiles handshakes bla bla, thats 2 and a quarter hours very very minimum youve spent selling one car, and thats in a ideal world .its not about the money its the chase ..........

A local garage that you use employs three mechanics and is not vat registered ?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

SAFPOO, experience and knowledge sells cars. 

[SAPFO 1]

49 minutes ago, have a word with the wife said:

so when can you actually be available to "sell" these cars ? average time to make a sale is lets say a hour including test drive ? lets assume they buy it, then they tell you theyre coming at 5 to collect and dont turn up till 5.45 then another lets say half hour, paperwork, smiles handshakes bla bla, thats 2 and a quarter hours very very minimum youve spent selling one car, and thats in a ideal world .its not about the money its the chase ..........

A local garage that you use employs three mechanics and is not vat registered ?

2 mechs, & his mrs in the office.

4 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

SAFPOO, experience and knowledge sells cars. 

 

56 minutes ago, Max Branning said:

if you are earning 37k a year in your day job then my advice would be stick with that !

Unless of course you really hate the job and absolutely love cars?

 

I hate my job with a passion. Factory work, shifts too, days, nights, afternoons. Making 'luxury' 4x4s as it happens. I wouldn't buy a new one thats for sure. Sometimes in life you have to choose what makes you happy. Id rather earn less, and not work nights or until 9pm.

[MrC 142]

Why dont you see what you can steal from the classified adverts. I used to do quite well out of buying from privates, I never mentioned I was trade until cash was exchanged and we filled out the yellow part of the V5. Some people dont like you making a few quid out of them.

You get to tyre kick, test drive and suck your teeth then go low ball.

In fact only the other day Mrs C raised the subject if doing that again.  

[metcars 397]

47 minutes ago, MrC said:

You get to tyre kick, test drive and suck your teeth then go low ball.

Getting your own back, I like it!

[SAPFO 1]

I said to my old man the other day that if you don't mind a bit of travelling, that there are loads of bargains out there that could offer a very small margin to gain experience. There is also a WBAC up the road. I made a joke I should sit outside asking people what they were offered, and then make a counter offer. As if you've actually got there online quotes nd then gone down there, you must be desperate for cash.