Annoying customer

[TM1989 3]

We sold a customer a car back in July this year. The car is 13 years old and we sold it with a 12 months mot. 
 

we changed the coil springs and a suspension part on the car when selling it and the car passed its MOT as well. 
 

The mechanic said that the breaks were fine and that they could be changed on the next mot which is due in April 2024. 
 

the customer started complaining because the engine light that came on in September and after he got a proper diagnosis done on the car the turbo sensor needs changing on the car. 
 

we have given him a 6 months warranty which will cover the sensor but he is being a complete and utter idiot. 
 

He’s also been told that the break discs and pads need changing and somehow the car is not in a roadworthy condition anymore but won’t send us the proof stating this. 
 

He wants us to pay for the dics and pads on the car which is barbaric. 
 

He is threatening us with trading standards and wants a full refund because of the above. 
 

what can we do? Do we have a leg to stand on? The mot was done properly and we never cut corners. 
 

he’s saying he will only send the report to us via trading standards and that he has had the car checked over by a green flag engineer too. 
 

any advice will be much appreciated. 
 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by TM1989

[trade vet 702]

How far away from you is he located.

[TM1989 3]

He’s in Stockport his Mrs is in Cardiff and she’s got the car with her in Cardiff. 

Cardiff amid about 3-4 hours away from us and Stockport is around the corner. The customer is a complete and utter pain. 

[petrol head 46]

Best thing to do is go 1/2 with him as it’s betterment?

[It's me 615]

Bit confused you say car went with fresh mot then say its due april

Did you mot it in April and it was then stood till you sold it in july

If so discs could well be past their best and pads could delaminate if low

The customer either can't afford to run this car or is indeed frustrated by the issues raised, most of the cars I've sold this year sell for even more now so if it was one of mine I might just bite the bullet make a reduction for the mileage done since sold and arange a collection new pdi full service fresh mot and sell it again

[trade vet 702]

I doubt you are getting the true story.The car could have been purchased for his partner or ex or ‘ bit on the side ‘ and they don’t want it or might even have fallen out.Have you spoken to her to establish who she is.At the point of sale did the buyer state that it would be used far away by a third party covering long distances.I think that is material information a dealer should know when selling an older vehicle.Firstly  and to cover yourself,I would email informing him that as the car has been inspected and having stated as being unroadworthy,the car cannot be used on the public road.If he wishes to process a claim under CRA 15 he or his partner should promptly send a photo showing the current mileage reading together with copies of the said inspection reports and their receipts.He should then arrange to have the car trailered to his home address which he provided at the point of sale.That you will then collect it and your engineer will then promptly carry out a CRA Post 30 Day statutory inspection.If this is not to his satisfaction he should then contact his local Trading Standards Dept. who will then usually contact you with their observations.

if he has been telling you Bullshit,in my experience he won’t cooperate.

 

[Halfpenny 114]

You need to establish some facts.  Firstly, the car was sold in July but it seems the MoT runs from April.  A 3-4 month discrepancy.  What were the mileages at MoT and at date of sale?  What is the mileage now? This is why we only do an MoT immediately prior to sale.

Secondly, an MoT is only a snapshot of the cars condition at the time of inspection. It is quite possible for the brakes to pass an MoT but become unroadworthy a week later.  The MoT standard is actually quite weak on disc condition - I speak as someone who used to be an MoT inspector until 2018.  Discs can be really quite worn and corroded and still pass, whereas a diligent mechanic would recommend replacement.  HOWEVER we do not warrant friction parts (brakes/clutch) - BUT we do normally replace any friction parts that won't last at least 6 months or 6000 miles in our judgement.

 

[trade vet 702]

It might well need discs and pads.We did our own 12 month warranties and occasionally we would investigate claims especially if the customer was from out of our area.I recall one guy claiming for a turbo on an Astra 1.7 diesel estate that he only had for a short time.His local garage confirmed the job so we gave the go ahead . Replacing turbos on those Astras was not uncommon but for some reason I sensed something was not right.I checked where he lived on Street View and he had a bloody great caravan parked on his drive !

[TM1989 3]

Hi both 

thank you for replying and apologies about the late reply. I very much doubt I am getting the true story as well. 
 

I did speak to Kwik fit today who checked over the car and they said the rear callipers,discs,pads and an actuator sensor need changing on the car but the warranty will not cover this. 
 

The car was sold in July but was mot’d in April on around 76,000 miles and when it was sold it was around the same miles too. 
 

It’s the customers partner and they’re both horrible. 
 

honestly I absolutely had customers like these two idiots.

when they bought the car they did say they were going to drive it back and forth to Cardiff. 
 

I have asked him over and over again for the mileage details and the details surrounding the car being ‘unroadworthy’ and he is not having and just wants a full refund and expects us to pick the car up too. 
 

I can’t believe tarders don’t have a leg to stand on when coming across these idiot customers. 
 

the guy has basically had the car for 2 /12 - 3 months and now just wants a refund. 
 

his mrs the idiot also said we advertised the car with Bluetooth but never did and we proved this to her. 

I swear I’m well angry and would loose my temper if he was anywhere near me!! 
 

 

[trade vet 702]

Kwik Fit ! There is the answer. There is probably little wrong with it.Anyone who has been in the trade for a while has a Kwik Fit story.They are worse than the main dealer free health checks.Unless things have changed,Kwik Fit fitters have daily sales targets and get paid 10% of jobs and if they miss their target ,they get bollicked.Kwik Fit should be able to tell you the mileage if they think they will get work.They may have done a lot of miles,so you could refund them less at least 40p per mile and charge for any paintwork ,a valet and probably collection.

[Scooby who 41]

They more than likely dont need the car any longer or it doesnt suit their needs, or there has been a new addition to the family (child or dog). They may have tried to sell it, but not getting near what they gave you, and possibly had some tyre kickers out complaing it needed new brakes etc.

Your probably not be getting the real story.

I've been here before and people will find every excuse when they want their money back. Sometimes its the only way for a stress free life.

You could also take it back and have the issues sorted, but there is no garantee they wont be back again in 2 months time with something else.

 

[TM1989 3]

I know mate it’s a nightmare. I can’t believe traders don’t have a leg to stand on though. Customers threaten with trading standards and we have to get our cars back on their say so. It’s ridiculous. 

[It's me 615]

13 hours ago, TM1989 said:

I know mate it’s a nightmare. I can’t believe traders don’t have a leg to stand on though. Customers threaten with trading standards and we have to get our cars back on their say so. It’s ridiculous. 

But you dont 

Give each and every car a fresh mot at point of sale by an independent mot station so no mates rules

Sort out any issues so car has no advisories for customers or trading standards to nit pick on unless obviously it's something like slight corrosion to brake hose ferrules or slight corrosion to front subframe, you wouldn't change these items but you would underseal or protect them

 

Have each and every car go through a comprehensive tick box pre delivery inspection

Have each and every car go on a 10 mile drive to confirm no problems

Do all this and you cut problems down by 99%

If you do then get a visit by trading standards or heaven forbid you go to the small claims court you can prove you did everything possible to sell a proper sorted car prior to sale and this goes in your favour because it shows you keep records and show due diligence to the trade we are in

Remember everyone loves us as they buy a car today but tomorrow if they even hear as much as a squeek tomorrow you are their enemy

Finally always keep business and pleasure separate if you like a nice quiet pint

 

[trade vet 702]

34 minutes ago, It's me said:

But you dont 

Give each and every car a fresh mot at point of sale by an independent mot station so no mates rules

Sort out any issues so car has no advisories for customers or trading standards to nit pick on unless obviously it's something like slight corrosion to brake hose ferrules or slight corrosion to front subframe, you wouldn't change these items but you would underseal or protect them

 

Have each and every car go through a comprehensive tick box pre delivery inspection

Have each and every car go on a 10 mile drive to confirm no problems

Do all this and you cut problems down by 99%

If you do then get a visit by trading standards or heaven forbid you go to the small claims court you can prove you did everything possible to sell a proper sorted car prior to sale and this goes in your favour because it shows you keep records and show due diligence to the trade we are in

Remember everyone loves us as they buy a car today but tomorrow if they even hear as much as a squeek tomorrow you are their enemy

Finally always keep business and pleasure separate if you like a nice quiet pint

 

Spot on, I think it is called ‘ protecting the down side ‘. Also if you want to make any money retailing older stuff,unfortunately the reality is you have to do the lions share of the prep yourself.

[MrC 142]

Let me go to trading standards. I bet he doesn't!

[TM1989 3]

Mate I know but I can’t risk him taking us to trading standards. I swear we haven’t done anything wrong at all and can prove this but they’ll definitely find something on a 13 year old car. I hate people who take advantage of people who genuinely trying to earn a living and not cheating the system!! 

[justina3 518]

10 hours ago, TM1989 said:

Mate I know but I can’t risk him taking us to trading standards. I swear we haven’t done anything wrong at all and can prove this but they’ll definitely find something on a 13 year old car. I hate people who take advantage of people who genuinely trying to earn a living and not cheating the system!! 

I dont get the fear of TS there mostly an underpowered underfunded misinformed organization, every dealing i have had with them i knew more about the case law than they did. 

If your confident in your position then stand your ground.

 

[TM1989 3]

I know I’m thinking of just telling him to get trafinf standards and every man and his dog if he wants. 

[slademotors 3]

If he had started complaining in the first 30 days then i think he might have had been on to something. Its been over 30 days they probably dont need the car anymore and now wanting you to get rid of it. Tell him to go to trading standards if hes so desperate. He should also share how much mileage its done.  Get everything in writing and if hes failing to comply with the mileage then hes just trying to get his money back. 

 

[TM1989 3]

Hi guys hope you’ve all had a good Christmas and all the best for the new year. 
 

regarding the above topic I did pick the car up and refunded the silly customer all his money. 
 

I was sick to death of him and his mrs sending emails and messages everyday threatening about court!! 
 

However when the car was picked up I noticed his fat mrs had added 3500 miles on the clock and had in fact been driving it even when they were complaining to me telling the car wasn’t fit for purpose and that I had put their kids in danger!! 
 

I am now wanting to these idiots to court as I am going to be out of pocket by £1000 at least. 
 

I have proof of all the messages and when they started complaint to me about this car originally so she should’ve never have added 3500 miles on the clock. 
 

what do you guys think? I know I probably sound petty but everyone’s struggling these days and I can’t stand people who have the nerve and the cheek to treat people who are trying to earn a simple living this!!! 
 

 

[Glevum 6]

Tell him in writing you are offering a full refund less rescission of contraft for the useage and any damage, I hope your invoice they signed has the clause "any cost of return in the event of a rejection / refund is borne by the purchaser"

They nearly always respond stating that is not they want.

They are happy to bleed you dry at no cost to them but the thought they might have to pay for the usage of the car and find another dealer to terrorise involves them phyisically having to do something  and lose money is not on their radar.

Once you have offered this and told them that you are only prepared to do this you have no liability with them.

If they accept it just sell it to a proper customer - rescission of contract due to usage is a grey area it can be as much as a daily car rental

 

 

 

Just read your post stating you have already refunded them.

Go online to moneyclaimonline and fill it out - it costs £50 which you get back when you win  I would put in a claim of £2000 (or 50p / mile usage) so it can be mediated to an acceptable level.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

It's do easy to do and it will put the fear of God on them, they have to respond in 30 days or they lose and you can keep it going ad-infinitum.

You will get paid as I always do in such circumstances and they get to experience the shit they gave you !!

Be prepared to get bad reviews though, I always try and find out what customers do for a living in case they run a business that I can leave a bad review if needed

Edited January 1 by Glevum

[TM1989 3]

Thank you so much for this mate. I will get onto straight away. Happy new year! 

P.s I’ve done the same and know his business etc too lol.