Mileage Correction - Advice

[Willoughby 15]

Bought an 18 month old Merc estate with 18,000 miles in a BCA Mercedes Assured sale with warrantied mileage back in April 2016 (think the sale was Mercedes Finance) , my wife actually ran the car for just over 12 months and then I sold it just over a year ago. The guy who now has it had some problem with it and took it into a Main dealer. As part of the fix they have tried to update the software in the ECU. They have told the owner that the car has had a mileage correction done and the software upgrade has now corrupted the ECU and the car can't be started - its basically dead. Needs new ECU and programming at a cost of £2500!

The current owner is someone who I've dealt with before and is 100% straight, so I can only assume the clocking was done by the previous owner before it went to BCA and I bought it.

I've asked the owner to try and find out from the Merc dealer if they can tell him when the mileage was changed.......which should confirm it was before I bought it.

The guy is very happy with the car (but clearly not the current situation) - so i'm not yet in a position where he saying take it back and refund me.....If he ends up with the car fixed and assuming he gets some recompense for the extra miles (although don't know how many yet) I think he will still keep it.... 

Assuming they confirm it was changed before I bought the car.... any advice on best course of action.......do I fix it and then go after BCA for the repair and an allowance for the extra miles, or do I tell them it wasn't as described and somehow get them to take it back?     Has anyone had anything similar.......

What a nightmare!

[It's me 615]

hi,I would be taking proper legal advice both to protect you against possible litigation from your customer but also from the authorities,I would also be looking at where my business stood in relation to buying a car sold as genuine mileage when indeed it would appear it had a mileage changer possibly added to the loom,was this still fitted when car went to dealer?can you access lawgistics legal team? you are piggy in middle here not a nice place to be

[trade vet 702]

Have you got the original service history.Alternatively pay a fee to a Merc dealer to track the mileage.If you can prove that the mileage was tampered with before you purchased it,I would insist on taking the car back for the purchase price and supplying a newer similar one free of charge.You can then notify BCA to get their response.
We had a similar situation with BCA about 10 years ago but with a far cheaper car and were awarded a lot of damages in the Small Claims Court.
You don’t want your punter talking to Trading Standards because they might prosecute you

[Willoughby 15]

Fortunately customer is "on side" I've dealt with him for years and appreciates I'm stuck in the middle. If under any circumstances things started to get difficult I'd just refund him and buy it back to take any heat out of the situation.  

Defo' got my fingers crossed the dealer can say when the odo was changed from looking at the cars diagnostics - if it's something fitted into the loom i'm told it may not be possible to track when it was done which really is the worst case for me.

Found a copy of the Auction listing sheet, which under service history info stated: "Service history info: 03/12/15:None:1"   looking at this I suspect it refers to service date, mileage (None) and 1st service - at this date the car would have been 12 months old.... Don't think it came with a service book or printout.......but car was sold as warrantied mileage.   

[David Horgan 564]

23 minutes ago, Willoughby said:

but car was sold as warrantied mileage.  

How can it of been sold with warranted mileage without service history Willoughby . Unless the MOT history was ok too , assuming MOT adds up any tampering was done in first 3 yrs 

[Dave2302 387]

Are you actually sure that this isn't a case of a bad MB dealer fucking up and then using "Tampered Mileage" as an excuse for them screwing up his ECU or whatever Module ?

Wasn't a Navi Update was it and now the whole COMAND /Dash etc is screwed up, I've had plenty folks who that's happened to by Main Dealerships, I wouldn't let them near mine, did the update myself

Plenty of options here to get to the bottom of it

This age of MB will store it's mileage, (well actually Km), travelled in many other Modules as well as the Cluster and ECU, the Navi HDD is a good place to start, hopefully the villain wasn't clued up enough to delete that data

Get the car interrogated by an Indie MB Specialist, or a trustworthy dealer who has bang up to date SDS, you'd be surprised at what info I can access, like exactly how many Km the car had done when an event or fault happened etc etc etc ................

Does this car have COMAND with Mercedes ME, if so the figures will likely be stored on the MB cloud, and I think this is a good enough reason to justify MB circumventing Data Protection and thus releasing the data

A friendly Service Manager would go a long way to helping here

It could well take a few hours to dig through it all but may well be worth it.

It is a brave or extremely dumb arsed man who would tamper with the Mileage on a recent MB vehicle

HTH

Edited November 6, 2020 by Dave2302

[Willoughby 15]

Hi Dave...

This is very interesting

About a month before I sold the car to my customer I had the sat nav completely pack up. .........The car was about a month out of warranty and I took it into my Merc Main dealer.

First they said it migh just want a software update, then it needed a head unit (I think), they fitted this and then rang to say the new head unit wasn't compatible with the Sat nav software in the car and I had to buy the latest sat nav upgrade for it to work....cost me about £1800 in total and they had the car about a month.

Do you think the problem could be to do with this.....

Look forward to hearing from you...

 

 

 

[petrol head 46]

2 hours ago, It's me said:

hi,I would be taking proper legal advice both to protect you against possible litigation from your customer but also from the authorities,I would also be looking at where my business stood in relation to buying a car sold as genuine mileage when indeed it would appear it had a mileage changer possibly added to the loom,was this still fitted when car went to dealer?can you access lawgistics legal team? you are piggy in middle here not a nice place to be

As long as you have taken all reasonable steps to prove the mileage, you won't have an issue with trading standards in my view. As you took it to a Merc Dealer before, then the discrepancy should have been picked up then, you should also have got that under goodwill if it was a month outside of warranty. I had an S Class as my own car and it was about 6 months outside warranty and they picked up a gearbox and air suspension unit. Some years back admittedly....

[Dave2302 387]

13 minutes ago, Willoughby said:

Do you think the problem could be to do with this.....

If the rest of the car seems consistent with age / mileage, I'd say it's very likely

These new breed of MB's really don't like software discrepancies, I really think if the first three years servicing and then subsequent mileages tally with DVLA then it is unlikely Mileage tampering, and more likely Software issues, I'd have to interrogate the Car and cross reference stuff to be absolutely sure though

Do you have a record of the exact mileage at the time of the COMAND Update fiasco, that could tell the whole truth

[Willoughby 15]

I'll dig the invoice out which will have it on. Do you think I should speak with the dealer and tell them about the sat-nav update etc ........or is it likely they might then tray and cover their tracks.........at the moment car is with the dealer and I'm awaiting them producing a summary of the problem and hopefully a date when the discrepancy occurred......

[trade vet 702]

Daves your man,expert witness.I would suggest sending him a grand for starters,you will get it all back when it’s settled.

[petrol head 46]

32 minutes ago, Willoughby said:

I'll dig the invoice out which will have it on. Do you think I should speak with the dealer and tell them about the sat-nav update etc ........or is it likely they might then tray and cover their tracks.........at the moment car is with the dealer and I'm awaiting them producing a summary of the problem and hopefully a date when the discrepancy occurred......

I would call Tongwell (MB) Customer and explain the situation and its been one of their Lease Vehicles, I would think they would take this seriously. 

[Dave2302 387]

I'm unsure which dealer did what here, but personally, if I were you I would get it out of the one who did the update etc, if that is where it is

Be aware that unless you have another dealership who is very friendly to your business, that they will all stick together.

A good proper MB certified Indie is your best bet here.

I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't be any good as a witness   I got done for some "Vehicular ID Discrepancy" activities back in the good old days, so any lawyer for the opposition would likely fish that out in a court to discredit your case

[Willoughby 15]

No problem.....I use a very good Indie.....I'm still awaiting the report from the main dealer - really am hoping they give a date when it was corrected as I now have the invoice for the sat nav work and replacement of Control unit etc... will let you know how i get on...

[Dave2302 387]

Yes definitely, I am very intrigued

[BHM 994]

Clocking is a strong claim to make without any substantiation. However almost the only cars the ‘mileage adjustment trade’ nowadays work on are newish cars by punters well over their pisspoor annual mileage allowance that they signed up to.

[metcars 397]

49 minutes ago, BHM said:

Clocking is a strong claim to make without any substantiation. However almost the only cars the ‘mileage adjustment trade’ nowadays work on are newish cars by punters well over their pisspoor annual mileage allowance that they signed up to.

Yep, clock it just before a main dealer service? 

[petrol head 46]

52 minutes ago, BHM said:

Clocking is a strong claim to make without any substantiation. However almost the only cars the ‘mileage adjustment trade’ nowadays work on are newish cars by punters well over their pisspoor annual mileage allowance that they signed up to.

Also those cars being exported to Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and the like, Premium and petrol largely 18-36 months old. 

[Rory RSC 596]

On 11/6/2020 at 5:29 PM, BHM said:

Clocking is a strong claim to make without any substantiation. However almost the only cars the ‘mileage adjustment trade’ nowadays work on are newish cars by punters well over their pisspoor annual mileage allowance that they signed up to.

I think any of us that buy ex lease stuff are buying clocked cars. Its just facts.

We had one from BCA and the dickheads had left the mileage blocked in the glovebox. How thick can you get.

[metcars 397]

11 minutes ago, Rory RSC said:

I think any of us that buy ex lease stuff are buying clocked cars. Its just facts.

We had one from BCA and the dickheads had left the mileage blocked in the glovebox. How thick can you get.

Oh yeah, and it’s been going on for years too!

[Ratt101 15]

We have a similar issue with a merc bought it one owner manheim warranted mileage, mrs been driving it for last 2 months she is convinced its not kosher, one service done at 3 years old just before mot  was due, was a merc sale at manheim details of service giving previos owners email and mobile number contacted them no response car originally from mercedes aberdeen cars only service mb sunderland would be interested to know what happens

[BHM 994]

6 minutes ago, Ratt101 said:

would be interested to know what happens

Fuck all 

[metcars 397]

16 hours ago, BHM said:

Fuck all 

I’m hoping for a full stop! 

[Willoughby 15]

Now spoken with Mech at Merc, seems the device was soldered onto the EZS and then wrapped in black tape - real botch - problem remains that neither he or Merc Tech dept think their is any way to establish either the real mileage or find when it was fitted, without that think its going to be an uphill struggle with Merc and BCA particularly as it was bought years ago - not yet given up though.....More you look into it on the Net there's a shedload of people out their making a full time living at doing it... With quite a few happy to show all the top end cars they're doing - it really is an eye opener. And with the move towards online auctions with no viewing - chances of spotting a wrong'en are diminishing further.....will keep you informed..  

 

 

 

[trade vet 702]

2 hours ago, Willoughby said:

Now spoken with Mech at Merc, seems the device was soldered onto the EZS and then wrapped in black tape - real botch - problem remains that neither he or Merc Tech dept think their is any way to establish either the real mileage or find when it was fitted, without that think its going to be an uphill struggle with Merc and BCA particularly as it was bought years ago - not yet given up though.....More you look into it on the Net there's a shedload of people out their making a full time living at doing it... With quite a few happy to show all the top end cars they're doing - it really is an eye opener. And with the move towards online auctions with no viewing - chances of spotting a wrong'en are diminishing further.....will keep you informed..  

 

 

 

Can you prove how many miles your wife usually does.For example my wife averages about 3k, year in year out so there would be no advantage applying a ‘haircut’.Can you not find out from Merc Dealer who leased the car from new,it could have been an airport taxi.Plenty of them go through Blackbushe for instance.You have to contact BCA for an explanation and show them the Merc report.The buyers fees indemnify you with mileage discrepancies and taxi use so don’t give up.