JLR - Sir Ralph's Package

[petrol head 46]

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/jaguar-land-rover-bailout-talks-with-government-crumble-as-outgoing-boss-sir-ralf-speths-pay-packet-tops-4-4m/200286

First off the bat let me say, I'm a big JLR fan and always like to have a RR as user, however given the recent record loss, pre COVID-19 job losses, how on earth can he be paid £4.4M?

I know JLR Dealers in the UK as well as distributors in other markets, they all have various degrees of frustration with the current management. The Dual arch, Boris like U-Turn, has been well publicized, but there have been numerous changes of distributors across the world, all of new distributors I know have are performing to lower standard then the Guy's they sacked. The priceless example, I won't say where, is where they had one distributor for Jaguar and one for LR. The Jag distributor had been in place for years and was a well known family company, with their only Automotive interest being Jag, the LR distributor was a large conglomerate with multiple Brands, including at least 2 competing in the same sector. JLR's solution to this was to get them both to set up a JV, so you have a massive PLC and a family business trying to work together, double the size of the Dealerships, and its been a disaster with an 80% drop in the last 5 years or so. 

Another market they had a really good operator, again family owner, lived and breathed the Brand, had a great location etc. Very small market, anything close to 200 units would be good going, despite having a good facility, they wanted them to spend millions on a new facility. When they said no, JLR terminated them and were without representation in Country for a long time, when they new boys came along they opened a facility that was substandard to say the least. I don't know the new Guy's, but the choice of models they bring in are baffling and sales I'm told on the floor.

Would love to hear from some happy JLR Dealers/Distributors.

[trade vet 702]

Tata Motors the owners of JLR probably consider Sir Ralph as cost effective because he has been able to attract hundreds of millions in government aid.Unfortunateley they are now asking for another one billion and been turned down.His replacement will most likely also have good government connections and an even bigger pay package.

It’s a bit like when Beckham at the end of his football career aged 37 signed a short contract with Paris SG,he hardly played a game but generated an extra 400,000 sales of club shirts.

[trade vet 702]

Just been reading about JLR new futuristic signature site in Sunbury on Thames.Room fo 400 cars with Bodyshop upstairs and cinema wall feature.It must be costing millions and communicating with them will probably only be by email and text.
I think Nick should send all his XF punters there for a free health check.....can you imagine.

[Mojo121 229]

RA Creamer’s springs to mind... not even The Queens Jag dealer was safe!

[metcars 397]

My daughter watches a YouTube channel where the family are touring Spain towing a caravan with a disco. It’s a year old, and in bits in a Spanish garage after blowing its engine? £20k bill! A year old!! Come on?

[Frank Cannon 812]

42 minutes ago, metcars said:

My daughter watches a YouTube channel where the family are touring Spain towing a caravan with a disco. It’s a year old, and in bits in a Spanish garage after blowing its engine? £20k bill! A year old!! Come on?

Balls of steel to entertain that in a LR product 

[Halfpenny 114]

2 hours ago, metcars said:

My daughter watches a YouTube channel where the family are touring Spain towing a caravan with a disco. It’s a year old, and in bits in a Spanish garage after blowing its engine? £20k bill! A year old!! Come on?

Unfortunately I can quite believe it. We've had some shocking issues with JLR products. Amongst my least favourite manufacturers...

[trade vet 702]

15 minutes ago, Halfpenny said:

Unfortunately I can quite believe it. We've had some shocking issues with JLR products. Amongst my least favourite manufacturers...

Good profit in fixing them if you have the right staff.

[Halfpenny 114]

5 hours ago, trade vet said:

Good profit in fixing them if you have the right staff.

Oh yes, we can fix them. But a lot of the faults just shouldn't happen. Its indicative of cars going into production before development engineering has been completed - a proud tradition in the UK automotive industry. Anyone remember the piece of 1200 grit paper that went behind the timing belt tensioner on a Rover M16 engine?

[trade vet 702]

54 minutes ago, Halfpenny said:

Oh yes, we can fix them. But a lot of the faults just shouldn't happen. Its indicative of cars going into production before development engineering has been completed - a proud tradition in the UK automotive industry. Anyone remember the piece of 1200 grit paper that went behind the timing belt tensioner on a Rover M16 engine?

No I don’t,but I do remember 820 Rovers,they were outstanding ‘ self destructors ‘.....Now the 827 how good were they.

[Frankieola 22]

23 hours ago, trade vet said:

No I don’t,but I do remember 820 Rovers,they were outstanding ‘ self destructors ‘.....Now the 827 how good were they.

827's had Honda engines, nuff said! 

[Frank Cannon 812]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:36 PM, Halfpenny said:

Oh yes, we can fix them. But a lot of the faults just shouldn't happen. Its indicative of cars going into production before development engineering has been completed - a proud tradition in the UK automotive industry. Anyone remember the piece of 1200 grit paper that went behind the timing belt tensioner on a Rover M16 engine?

In my experience Land Rover have a lot of previous of using customers as an 'out sourced durability trials department'.....they were always spendy and very needy to own. 

Sadly, Jaguar seem to be doing likewise since they were sold by Ford, shame as I sold a LOT of XJ-40's, X300, X308, X Types, S Types.

That said, the early XFs are a thing of beauty to drive if you buy a nice one, in fact I have one as a daily driver at the moment. The last thing Jag developed under Ford ownership...petrol obviously rather pay a few quid more in rent thus saving far more though thru diesel erm, issues. 

[Halfpenny 114]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:42 PM, trade vet said:

No I don’t,but I do remember 820 Rovers,they were outstanding ‘ self destructors ‘.....Now the 827 how good were they.

The 820s were typical half-finished BL/Rover design. 825/827 was the Honda V6. Good engine. They were actually quite nice cars and pretty reliable. I ran a couple at the time.  I really don't see the attraction of JLR stuff. I have a good contact in JLR's engineering centre at Gaydon who tells me that JLR's year one warranty claims per 1000 new cars sold is 2200. For Toyota it is 40.

[petrol head 46]

JD Power Survey Results don't read well, eyes down Sir Ralph:

 

J.D. Power 2020 U.S. Initial Quality Study Brand Ranking (PP 100):

1. Dodge (136)
2. Kia (136)
3. Chevrolet (141)
4. RAM (141)
5. Genesis (142)
6. Mitsubishi (148)
7. Buick (150)
8. GMC (151)
9. Volkswagen (152)
10. Hyundai (153)
11. Jeep (155)
12. Lexus (159)
13. Nissan (161)
14. Cadillac (162)
15. INDUSTRY AVERAGE (166)
16. Infiniti (173)
17. Ford (174)
18. MINI (174)
19. BMW (176)
20. Honda (177)
21. Toyota (177)
22. Lincoln (182)
23. Mazda (184)
24. Acura (185)
25. Porsche (186)
26. Subaru (187)
27. Chrysler (189)
28. Jaguar (190)
29. Mercedes-Benz (202)
30. Volvo (210)
31. Audi (225)
32. Land Rover (228)
33. Tesla (250)

[Casper 272]

One i know off Brand new defender straight out the factory at landrover by time it had done 800 miles fault code three times and engine light turned out an electric connecter had came loose then a fixing clip the owner fixed it himself in the end after landrover and landrover assist weren't much help 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Casper

[oldmarcus 22]

I used to love the old Jags, I've owned every model since the 1950's Mk 9 and still have two E types, one of which I've had since 1982; so that's lasted longer that the 1st wife

Back in the day, late 1970's, we used to buy up well used Mk 2 3.4 and 3.8 Jags for a few hundred and drive them to our buyer in Holland who'd pay £1.5-2k after they'd had a quick blast of paint from 'Ron Respray' !!

Then that buyer would take us to the Utrecht auction, where 3 year old American cars could be bought for around a grand as nobody wanted them there that old back then, buy as many of those as drivers who'd taken a Jag over would bring one back each for any necessary work to tidy them up and MOT, then leave them with a central London dealer on SOR and he shifted most of them pretty fast usually between £2-3k. Life was so much easier, not to mention profitable, once you found a good money spinner before the internet came along.

Today I've no interest left in the modern Jaguar, and Range Rovers, most especially the popular RR Sport, after 3 years they have all to often been bought on finance by people trying to live a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget - so minimal maintenance after that 2- 3 years warranty period for many of those.

When a RRover is good it's great, but having one in stock with the constant worry if yet another warning light would miraculously come on after standing locked overnight is too rich for my blood ........

My biggest gripe, and not just on JLR is that we used to have mechanics, now most of them are just what I call 'fitters' who do what the software tells them; often wrongly!!

As for this guys 4.4 mil bonus, it's a disgrace, JLR should not get a penny after that - and overall, the TATA group as a whole are not short of cash ....

[Casper 272]

2 hours ago, oldmarcus said:

I used to love the old Jags, I've owned every model since the 1950's Mk 9 and still have two E types, one of which I've had since 1982; so that's lasted longer that the 1st wife

Back in the day, late 1970's, we used to buy up well used Mk 2 3.4 and 3.8 Jags for a few hundred and drive them to our buyer in Holland who'd pay £1.5-2k after they'd had a quick blast of paint from 'Ron Respray' !!

Then that buyer would take us to the Utrecht auction, where 3 year old American cars could be bought for around a grand as nobody wanted them there that old back then, buy as many of those as drivers who'd taken a Jag over would bring one back each for any necessary work to tidy them up and MOT, then leave them with a central London dealer on SOR and he shifted most of them pretty fast usually between £2-3k. Life was so much easier, not to mention profitable, once you found a good money spinner before the internet came along.

Today I've no interest left in the modern Jaguar, and Range Rovers, most especially the popular RR Sport, after 3 years they have all to often been bought on finance by people trying to live a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget - so minimal maintenance after that 2- 3 years warranty period for many of those.

When a RRover is good it's great, but having one in stock with the constant worry if yet another warning light would miraculously come on after standing locked overnight is too rich for my blood ........

My biggest gripe, and not just on JLR is that we used to have mechanics, now most of them are just what I call 'fitters' who do what the software tells them; often wrongly!!

As for this guys 4.4 mil bonus, it's a disgrace, JLR should not get a penny after that - and overall, the TATA group as a whole are not short of cash ....

Agree on the fitter part most deffo.. not just with JLR but also many industries .. 

[trade vet 702]

6 hours ago, Casper said:

Agree on the fitter part most deffo.. not just with JLR but also many industries .. 

 

8 hours ago, oldmarcus said:

I used to love the old Jags, I've owned every model since the 1950's Mk 9 and still have two E types, one of which I've had since 1982; so that's lasted longer that the 1st wife

Back in the day, late 1970's, we used to buy up well used Mk 2 3.4 and 3.8 Jags for a few hundred and drive them to our buyer in Holland who'd pay £1.5-2k after they'd had a quick blast of paint from 'Ron Respray' !!

Then that buyer would take us to the Utrecht auction, where 3 year old American cars could be bought for around a grand as nobody wanted them there that old back then, buy as many of those as drivers who'd taken a Jag over would bring one back each for any necessary work to tidy them up and MOT, then leave them with a central London dealer on SOR and he shifted most of them pretty fast usually between £2-3k. Life was so much easier, not to mention profitable, once you found a good money spinner before the internet came along.

Today I've no interest left in the modern Jaguar, and Range Rovers, most especially the popular RR Sport, after 3 years they have all to often been bought on finance by people trying to live a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget - so minimal maintenance after that 2- 3 years warranty period for many of those.

When a RRover is good it's great, but having one in stock with the constant worry if yet another warning light would miraculously come on after standing locked overnight is too rich for my blood ........

My biggest gripe, and not just on JLR is that we used to have mechanics, now most of them are just what I call 'fitters' who do what the software tells them; often wrongly!!

As for this guys 4.4 mil bonus, it's a disgrace, JLR should not get a penny after that - and overall, the TATA group as a whole are not short of cash ....

Brilliant.Jags to Holland and Yanks back.There was a big Yank pitch near us early 70’s in Newcastle and late 60’s there was a guy from Warren St came up every week to buy Jags.He dressed like Arthur Daley and smoked cigars and just ignored me.

Can we have more stories from the golden age please Marcus.The millenials won’t believe them.

 

[Casper 272]

9 hours ago, trade vet said:

 

Brilliant.Jags to Holland and Yanks back.There was a big Yank pitch near us early 70’s in Newcastle and late 60’s there was a guy from Warren St came up every week to buy Jags.He dressed like Arthur Daley and smoked cigars and just ignored me.

Can we have more stories from the golden age please Marcus.The millenials won’t believe them.

 

Always appreciate your comments and stories trade vet ive only been in the trade since 1999 on and off with other bits and bobs in between mainly property and construction so keep them coming 

 

18 hours ago, oldmarcus said:

I used to love the old Jags, I've owned every model since the 1950's Mk 9 and still have two E types, one of which I've had since 1982; so that's lasted longer that the 1st wife

Back in the day, late 1970's, we used to buy up well used Mk 2 3.4 and 3.8 Jags for a few hundred and drive them to our buyer in Holland who'd pay £1.5-2k after they'd had a quick blast of paint from 'Ron Respray' !!

Then that buyer would take us to the Utrecht auction, where 3 year old American cars could be bought for around a grand as nobody wanted them there that old back then, buy as many of those as drivers who'd taken a Jag over would bring one back each for any necessary work to tidy them up and MOT, then leave them with a central London dealer on SOR and he shifted most of them pretty fast usually between £2-3k. Life was so much easier, not to mention profitable, once you found a good money spinner before the internet came along.

Today I've no interest left in the modern Jaguar, and Range Rovers, most especially the popular RR Sport, after 3 years they have all to often been bought on finance by people trying to live a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget - so minimal maintenance after that 2- 3 years warranty period for many of those.

When a RRover is good it's great, but having one in stock with the constant worry if yet another warning light would miraculously come on after standing locked overnight is too rich for my blood ........

My biggest gripe, and not just on JLR is that we used to have mechanics, now most of them are just what I call 'fitters' who do what the software tells them; often wrongly!!

As for this guys 4.4 mil bonus, it's a disgrace, JLR should not get a penny after that - and overall, the TATA group as a whole are not short of cash ....

You too Marcus 

[oldmarcus 22]

Thanks for the comments guys, been a long day over in my unit doing stuff - but if you like stories - I've got a boat as I've traded in many counties and done all sorts, but it's late just now.

- Be well all, there's some rough times not too far ahead, but on a brighter note - people will still buy cars, but to a different pattern/budget/spec than some of type/s different than we've got used to recently.

Edited August 26, 2020 by oldmarcus

[trade vet 702]

1 hour ago, oldmarcus said:

Thanks for the comments guys, been a long day over in my unit doing stuff - but if you like stories - I've got a boat as I've traded in many counties and done all sorts, but it's late just now.

- Be well all, there's some rough times not too far ahead, but on a brighter note - people will still buy cars, but to a different pattern/budget/spec than some of type/s different than we've got used to recently.

So you wouldn’t like to have a 200 grand stock loan like a lot of the guys now.The thought gives me a headache but most traders have no alternative.

[Frank Cannon 812]

Small world moment today.

Just came back from a few days in the smoke, stuck in a traffic jam caused by................ a new shape Defender in black with an expensive puddle of some fluid pooling under it.....a very unhappy elderly couple sat in it.

Whatever went wrong must of been quite sudden as it was parked on the piss. 

Having the time to look at it as we slowly drove past, I can't help but think it looks 10 years out of date already

[oldmarcus 22]

15 minutes ago, trade vet said:

So you wouldn’t like to have a 200 grand stock loan like a lot of the guys now.The thought gives me a headache but most traders have no alternative.

 

NO - never had, never will - I'm pretty old fashioned when it comes to borrowing and most simply put, apart from my monthly CC Bill, I pay for everything on the nail.

When things were booming in the late 90's I even cleared my main home mortgage, only 50k and the 2nd one I'd had; I know conventional wisdom say borrow because it's cheap, but that don't sit well with me.

 

9 minutes ago, Frank Cannon said:

Small world moment today.

Just came back from a few days in the smoke, stuck in a traffic jam caused by................ a new shape Defender in black with an expensive puddle of some fluid pooling under it.....a very unhappy elderly couple sat in it.

Whatever went wrong must of been quite sudden as it was parked on the piss. 

Having the time to look at it as we slowly drove past, I can't help but think it looks 10 years out of date already

I suspect, like most models, the new Defender has not had sufficient and full testing done; sadly that seems common with most/all new JLR products, the insane # of software and panel gap issue recalls on the 2016 F Pace, not to mention leaks, another good example.

I bought a lot of LHD P38 RRovers in Germany and sold them in Latvia and Russia, they loved them but even those had various build issues, despite being mostly BMW powered; I once literally had the entire glove compartment fall out of one - some drove lovely though and had a pretty good grunt for the day.

[trade vet 702]

45 minutes ago, oldmarcus said:

 

NO - never had, never will - I'm pretty old fashioned when it comes to borrowing and most simply put, apart from my monthly CC Bill, I pay for everything on the nail.

When things were booming in the late 90's I even cleared my main home mortgage, only 50k and the 2nd one I'd had; I know conventional wisdom say borrow because it's cheap, but that don't sit well with me.

 

I suspect, like most models, the new Defender has not had sufficient and full testing done; sadly that seems common with most/all new JLR products, the insane # of software and panel gap issue recalls on the 2016 F Pace, not to mention leaks, another good example.

I bought a lot of LHD P38 RRovers in Germany and sold them in Latvia and Russia, they loved them but even those had various build issues, despite being mostly BMW powered; I once literally had the entire glove compartment fall out of one - some drove lovely though and had a pretty good grunt for the day.

Selling to the Russians,you did well.In the 90’s the story was that the Russians were big at stealing top cars in Europe taking them home,changing their ID,getting issued with new docs then flogging them in different European countries.

[oldmarcus 22]

16 minutes ago, trade vet said:

Selling to the Russians,you did well.In the 90’s the story was that the Russians were big at stealing top cars in Europe taking them home,changing their ID,getting issued with new docs then flogging them in different European countries.

 

Yes, that sort of fraud and thieving began when the Russians began to 'get their legs', rather later into the 90's ; I started as soon after the wall came down and as I could begin to figure out the logistics of it all and was up and running by Spring/Summer 1992. The issue then was paying not to have your lorry/s kidnapped - in Russia, you always have to know/pay the right people, I was lucky to make friends with a well connected lady lawyer, she could get anything sorted in St Petersburg.

The profitability slowly got less and less and eventually, as said, they did it themselves, but I kept a exporting timber business until about 2007, then margins got bad on that, so I quit and sold the entire business except for keeping the office building, as it's in Riga City centre. I did most trade in Latvia & the other 2 Baltic states, I have no desire to go back to Russia - ever.

That was pretty fortuitous really, as I sunk the money into USD at 2:1, plus managed to miss the 2008/9 crash during very long periods at the holiday house doing very little, I was totally exhausted after almost 15 years constant traveling by then TBH, plus I missed much of my kids growing up - but these chances don't happen often and at least they got a great private education which is more than I ever did.

I really only first came back when I bought all the cars I had space for in Autumn 2009, kept them all until Summer 2010, then fed them into BCA Bedford weekly during June/July 2010 when there was no used stock available if you remember - that again was a big gamble, but also worked out rather well - not everything always did or does though......