Faster Payment Recalled

[Dracon800 1]

Hi all,

1st post, new account.

I have been in the trade for a number of years working in sales for various manufacturers, about 18 months ago I started for myself selling from home.

I sold a car yesterday, and received the funds by Faster Payment as usual.

Today the transaction was reversed, and the funds taken back out of my account. This is a business account at HSBC, and the bank didn't contact me about this.

The bank are being cagey about why, but reading between the lines the customer has said the payment was made by mistake.

I have spoken to the customer (who is at least answering the 'phone at present), and he is denying asking for the payment back - but is now trying to renegotiate the price.

I will call him back again shortly, when I've calmed down a little bit.

First - I'm shocked the payment can be recalled 24 hours later (or at all).

Secondly - what would your advise be at this point please?

 

Thanks.

 

Miles.

[EPV 631]

Get hold of an email address for the bank, send a copy of the signed invoice/receipt as proof the customer agreed to pay the contract price. 

[Del Boy 76]

Welcome Miles. 

This is the first time I’ve heard of this happening. I didn’t know it was possible to reverse a bank transfer? It’s extremely worrying as the majority of us receive large amounts via bank transfer on a regular basis. 

It sounds as though there is a mistake somewhere! However the customer has noticed it and taking advantage.   

Personally I would phone the bank again and not put the phone down until you get an answer. 

Once you have an answer I’d be going round the blokes house and having it out with him on his doorstep without prior warning. This is bang out of order and makes my piss boil just thinking about it. 

[Contracts 68]

1 minute ago, Del Boy said:

It’s extremely worrying as the majority of us receive large amounts via bank transfer on a regular basis. 

That’s an understatement! for us, the number of cars we sell via Autotrademail etc to dealers who don’t even seem to be members on there, more get someone else to log on for them....

 

Would be interested to hear the outcome as I have always believed once it’s in its in!  

[MrV 66]

Was the payment sent from a business account?

My wife was a business bank advisor for Lloyd's who thinks normally this would only be done if the issuing bank thought the transaction was fraudulent. Normally a bank transfer cannot be recalled UNLESS it was sent from a business account in which case can be recalled quite easily. This all might depend on the actual banks and their policies though

[Stalker 180]

26 minutes ago, Dracon800 said:

Hi all,

1st post, new account.

I have been in the trade for a number of years working in sales for various manufacturers, about 18 months ago I started for myself selling from home.

I sold a car yesterday, and received the funds by Faster Payment as usual.

Today the transaction was reversed, and the funds taken back out of my account. This is a business account at HSBC, and the bank didn't contact me about this.

The bank are being cagey about why, but reading between the lines the customer has said the payment was made by mistake.

I have spoken to the customer (who is at least answering the 'phone at present), and he is denying asking for the payment back - but is now trying to renegotiate the price.

I will call him back again shortly, when I've calmed down a little bit.

First - I'm shocked the payment can be recalled 24 hours later (or at all).

Secondly - what would your advise be at this point please?

 

Thanks.

 

Miles.

Hi Miles

This sounds bad, what time did the transaction take place? 

 

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Miles, report the him to your bank for fraud and ask for his account to frozen

[NOACROSS 414]

Are you sure it’s not a CHAPS payment? My wife works for a bank and she says it’s not possible. But a CHAPS can be recalled the same day. 

Otherwise, they have to get the bank to recall it and takes 7-10 days UNLESS they’ve said it’s a fraudulent transaction. Which is what she thinks they’ve probably done. 

[MrV 66]

3 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

Are you sure it’s not a CHAPS payment? My wife works for a bank and she says it’s not possible. But a CHAPS can be recalled the same day. 

Otherwise, they have to get the bank to recall it and takes 7-10 days UNLESS they’ve said it’s a fraudulent transaction. Which is what she thinks they’ve probably done. 

This ^^^ so as long as you have a signed sales receipt you'll be fine 

[David Ayers 171]

Has the customer taken possession of the car?

[Dracon800 1]

Hi All,

Firstly, the customer has made the payment again, and I have received the funds again.

This was after making it clear to the customer I wasn't renegotiating the price, and they needed to make payment again, or I was coming to get the car.

To answer some of the questions above, the payment appears to have come from a personal account (also HSBC if that makes a difference) as the credit narrative contains their name (rather than any sort of business name, but of course it could be a sole trader account). The transaction type is 'BP' - which I understand is bill payment/faster payment in HSBC parlance.

He made the payment to me, as people do, on his phone while buying the car (and using his security token thing) - so I don't think it would be a BACS/CHAPS payment.

Once I have recovered I will make a formal compliant to HSBC and see what they say (if anything), but I have no bank manager or particular sway. I just speak with the 'phone banking call centre whenever I do call.

How did he get it recalled - saying its a fraudulent transaction - that is my suspicion but I have nothing to base it on, and given he used his security token and his 'phone app how he gets the bank to agree it's fraud - I don't know.

The bank recalled it themselves of their own bat - this is another possibility (after all the guy answered my calls, and has paid the money again) if they thought it was suspicious. However, normally they don't let the payment go through in the first place and you have to hang around while the customer calls their bank and gets the payment 'released'. Just reversing it 24 hours later seems unacceptable.

I may taken some time, but I will post any further details / information.

Thanks all.

[NOACROSS 414]

Hmmmm.....she also says that it’s possible the bank tried to contact him to verify the transaction as kosher and they couldn’t get hold of him, so would have stopped it. Weird. Anyway. V glad your in the money again. How much was it BTW?

[Dracon800 1]

Thanks. 

£8,150. 

[Stalker 180]

If a payment is made outside of banking hours it can be recalled/cancelled right up until 1 minute before the next banking hours/day begins.

It will show as ready to clear on the receiving banks online banking against the following days date (but won’t be cleared funds).

 

i think the best practice is to only accept these payments between 10am and 4pm (banking hours)

 

[trade vet 697]

Whatever next ?

[umesh 336]

1st for me! if money is in your account surely that is not correct???

Was told if its faster payment it cannot be recalled back - keep us posted as I'm sure everyone on here needs to fully understand how this can happen, if thats the case none of us are safe.

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

HSBC and Santandair are the 2 banks in my own experience where a payment is never automatically instant, HSBC will take it from customers account instantly but then if its into the thousands another department of HSBC will always call days afterwards as a security, ask them a few account security questions and then once happy there customer wanted this transfer will release the funds...............................   anyone else had this experience OP are you sure it was not this sort of thing you are  experiencing??

 

I now always get them to CALL HSBC rather than do it on phone app so that this whole process is done in one  phone call

 

As others have said i really fear if the money was in your account  and some how this bank that had credited you can some how  collect it back??????   i always believed that once in, It is security fenced by your own banks security protocols ??   interested to learn more on this given the considerable reliance and trust using phone app bank transfers

Edited January 4, 2019 by Blenheim Car Sales

[Stalker 180]

I would like if the OP could confirm what time the funds were sent? 

[justina3 518]

I just rang barclays via my phone app and the customer services said once its landed it can not be recalled by the customer the fraud team can step in but they are unsure of what there systems are.  

[AutoJacob 34]

What a load of bollocks.. I guess we should all just go back to cash as every other payment method is absolute crap and is able to be recalled.

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

Thats my own understanding of it also, Once in your account Its ring fenced by your own banks security and can not be recalled 

 

Need to clarification by original poster that the funds were IN the  bank and they were removed after they had been in

[beenaroundtheblock 21]

Never bothered to sign up before, but I wanted to comment on this.

I have asked Santander this very same question before I started accepting payments like this. They told me once the money is in my account there is nothing that would allow the money to be taken back, even if people have been victims of fraud the bank they have a hell of a time getting the money back.

Either it's a mistake or the person has not explained themselves properly or it's just a wind up. Even if you Google there is plenty of information telling you this simply cannot happen.

Edited January 4, 2019 by beenaroundtheblock

[James01 21]

I would be going round to the customers house and taking the car back until you are paid.

Most invoices state “title to purchase does not pass from the seller until cleared funds are paid.”

 

[Area 51 33]

Bugger watching with interest.. lot to be said for completing a transaction during banking hours and also whilst the ruddy DVLA are open I guess.... Outside of these hours and some "reassurance/back up" .. this story makes it sound like the wild west...

[Dave2302 387]

BTW, regarding DVLA, if you tax a vehicle after normal hours it can take 5 days before it goes on the Database, more over Xmas !!

I always print the EMail Receipt and chuck it in the Glovebox, yep, just before Xmas I taxed the SLK I just bought, got tugged by plod a few days later, who was getting quite stroppy until I shoved the EMail under his nose

Same applies to pp transfers