Customer car blows up 8 weeks after purchase...

[EPV 631]

Well, what’s life without a bit of speculation...

[Arfur Dealy 823]

6 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

Yes. This is a fair point. It’ll still be fucked though I’d wager. 

I sold a CLK35O in January to a guy, in March I get a text saying gearbox had a problem and it needs a £980 repair.  I said, no problem return it to me (as per our contract) and I’ll get it inspected. It’s passed six months, nothing heard since

8 minutes ago, EPV said:

Well, what’s life without a bit of speculation...

Well, what’s life without a bit of mitigation.....

[NOACROSS 414]

Yup fair point. Gotta get the chance to inspect the junk. 

I’d still wager it’s an ex-parrot and not pining for the fjords. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 minute ago, NOACROSS said:

Yup fair point. Gotta get the chance to inspect the junk. 

I’d still wager it’s an ex-parrot and not pining for the fjords. 

Most probably, who knows....,

[tradegirl 112]

On 16/08/2018 at 1:15 PM, EPV said:

Without knowing the ins and outs of it all, you’re in a weak position. The car you sold wasn’t fit for purpose, unless you’re planning to repair the car you should issue a refund less 50p per mile for his usage. With any luck he’s done a couple of thousand miles which will ease your pain. 

Recon the engine, sell it again and wipe your mouth and move on. 

EPV I'm not sure if I accidently reported this post.

[EPV 631]

29 minutes ago, tradegirl said:

EPV I'm not sure if I accidently reported this post.

I wouldn't blame you, most of what I write is a load of old cobblers anyway...

[Mark101 536]

If it were me and all presuming it's now back with me and indeed chucking out white smoke, no power etc.

I would say; Sir, I am so sorry, we do everything we can to prevent this kind of situation.  Would you like a refund or would you like me to perform the repair and then have the car back?

This goes to court and the customer will win.

Doesn't matter if it's 20 years old, done 500,000 miles and the owner has ragged it in 1st gear everywhere - you're going to lose in court because you can't prove his driving style with any certainty.

Sorry to bear bad news but that's my opinion and a refund would be my preference (rather than have someone ringing every day asking when it will be ready).

[MattR 177]

It needs to come back to the OP, if only to ensure a leg isnt being lifted. PDI or no PDI, if this went to a court (and if I was a punter who had just seen a 6k car do this, I'd push it all the way if I had to) its only going one way. So get it back, find the fault, repair or refund. I see the reason to play hardball before the facts are known, but be prepared for expense. 

[EPV 631]

Be nice to have an update from the OP?

[Nick M.K. 574]

2 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Doesn't matter if it's 20 years old, done 500,000 miles

If someone takes a dealer to court over a car like this the claim will be thrown straight out. "Struck out" :-)

You buy at those miles with that "fair wear and tear commensurate with age and mileage" you don't get to waste their time...

[AutoJacob 34]

4 hours ago, Nick M.K. said:

If someone takes a dealer to court over a car like this the claim will be thrown straight out. "Struck out" :-)

You buy at those miles with that "fair wear and tear commensurate with age and mileage" you don't get to waste their time...

How confident are you of this Nick or is it one of those "uncertainties" of the CRA.

8 weeks of motoring, engine blows up.. two options.

1. Car is in warranty - Customer seeks repair at no direct cost

2. Car isn't in warranty - Customer pays for repair

On a £6K car with mileage like that I'm sure he was offered a third party warranty and refused to pay thus going with the FREE 30 day warranty (self warranted).

In my opinion it's the customers problem, out of warranty and 2 months after sale so OP shouldn't be put in such a situation or made to feel responsible whatsoever.

 

[Nick M.K. 574]

15 minutes ago, AutoJacob said:

How confident are you of this Nick or is it one of those "uncertainties" of the CRA.

I am very confident (80-90%) for the simple reason that the CRA specifically allows for age AND mileage related wear and tear. A car is simply not meant to last 500,000 miles and while we may know differently the judge probably has around 70,000 in his head for high mileage and 200,000 for end of life. 

If they get a claim for losses suffered after the purchase of a 500,000 mile run-of-the-mill used car they will feel very annoyed and not towards the dealer. 

[It's me 615]

11 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

I am very confident (80-90%) for the simple reason that the CRA specifically allows for age AND mileage related wear and tear. A car is simply not meant to last 500,000 miles and while we may know differently the judge probably has around 70,000 in his head for high mileage and 200,000 for end of life. 

If they get a claim for losses suffered after the purchase of a 500,000 mile run-of-the-mill used car they will feel very annoyed and not towards the dealer. 

the car in question on this thread is  4.8L 7 series! 10 years old with 128k  do you seriously believe that this would get thrown out,

have you been to the small claims court? what do you think trading standards would do to your business if you told a customer his 8 week old car had broken due to age related items ie the reason he bought the car was because this engine should have another 100,000 miles life left minimum,

[EPV 631]

1 hour ago, boring dave said:

the car in question on this thread is  4.8L 7 series! 10 years old with 128k  do you seriously believe that this would get thrown out,

have you been to the small claims court? what do you think trading standards would do to your business if you told a customer his 8 week old car had broken due to age related items ie the reason he bought the car was because this engine should have another 100,000 miles life left minimum,

The car in question yes but not the Car Nick was referring to, that being the 500,000 mile theoretical car. 

[Autolink100 34]

2 hours ago, boring dave said:

the car in question on this thread is  4.8L 7 series! 10 years old with 128k  do you seriously believe that this would get thrown out,

have you been to the small claims court? what do you think trading standards would do to your business if you told a customer his 8 week old car had broken due to age related items ie the reason he bought the car was because this engine should have another 100,000 miles life left minimum,

Trading standards would do absolutely nothing other than advise the customer on his rights. It's not their job to get involved in every dispute between  car dealers and their customers.

[andymc1973 199]

The magistrate would expect a 6k to last more than 2 months 

[Area 51 33]

On 17/08/2018 at 4:22 PM, EPV said:

As I recall, there’s no set deduction per mile. 

Following with interest as most here I'd reckon, however this comment seems to be about right in my view; I reckon a court would rely on a test of what is fair and reasonable.

is it either of these that motor croaked after just eight weeks, can't prove billy is wanker with heavy right foot... I say refund, less usage, go in the corner and swear a bit, get it repaired and move on..

[Arfur Dealy 823]

On 17/08/2018 at 11:53 PM, NOACROSS said:

 

7 hours ago, Autolink100 said:

Trading standards would do absolutely nothing other than advise the customer on his rights. It's not their job to get involved in every dispute between  car dealers and their customers.

Spot on. It’s civil. 

[BHM 994]

Why do some of you keep referring to the customer having a heavy right foot? Come on, do you seriously think it’s unacceptable for a customer to use his car? Nonsense like this is a complete non-starter. 

All if this conjecture counts for sweet f.a. as the full facts aren’t known. He’s already declared he’s going out of business AND he can’t even be arsed to fill in the blanks for those on here who are trying to help.

He either gets the car back and deals with it or just f***s off the customer and deals with the fallout (if any - plenty of punters won’t bother but if it does goes to court I’m sure he’d lose). He’s going/gone out of business so it sounds to me like he’s had a belly full of this game.

[Autolink100 34]

49 minutes ago, BHM said:

Why do some of you keep referring to the customer having a heavy right foot? Come on, do you seriously think it’s unacceptable for a customer to use his car? Nonsense like this is a complete non-starter. 

All if this conjecture counts for sweet f.a. as the full facts aren’t known. He’s already declared he’s going out of business AND he can’t even be arsed to fill in the blanks for those on here who are trying to help.

He either gets the car back and deals with it or just f***s off the customer and deals with the fallout (if any - plenty of punters won’t bother but if it does goes to court I’m sure he’d lose). He’s going/gone out of business so it sounds to me like he’s had a belly full of this game.

This. If I was just about to pack it in and go off and do something else, that is exactly what I would be doing. There are indeed plenty of punters who would just suck it up.

[Christian 1]

4 hours ago, BHM said:

Why do some of you keep referring to the customer having a heavy right foot? Come on, do you seriously think it’s unacceptable for a customer to use his car? Nonsense like this is a complete non-starter. 

All if this conjecture counts for sweet f.a. as the full facts aren’t known. He’s already declared he’s going out of business AND he can’t even be arsed to fill in the blanks for those on here who are trying to help.

He either gets the car back and deals with it or just f***s off the customer and deals with the fallout (if any - plenty of punters won’t bother but if it does goes to court I’m sure he’d lose). He’s going/gone out of business so it sounds to me like he’s had a belly full of this game.

The car had 129k and I didnt do a PDI, Ive only been in business a year and a half with minimal capital so I would barely classify myself as a proper dealer with the current setup. Most cars sell in and around the £3k mark. Ive since done away with the warranty altogether and now just sell with no Guarantees. The customer in question can barely spell in messages, a new message coming every couple of hours and a random phone call last night at 11pm!!! He expects the full 6000 refunded and to be honest given his attitude so far Id say if I offered him any less than that he would be taking me straight to court. So the question is then what do I offerhim? Ive already contacted a BMW specialist here and they told me they wouldnt strip a 4.8l V8, so Id be ringing around before I could get it fixed.

My solicitor told me yesterday that Im not responisible at all and hes happy to take part in what he believes would be a straightforward case. I think it would be if I was clearly a very small independant sole trader selling 10-15 year old cars as opposed to a large dealership selling fresher stuff with more experience.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Get the car back and have it inspected fully. That is your first step. Tell him once, that you will only respond by phone and between the hours if 9-5, you will not respond to texts at all. Take control of the situation. Tell him, once you have had the car inspected you will advice him of the outcome, do not make him any offers or promises until you KNOW what has happened to the car. You are a professional car dealer, act like it. 

[D&M 66]

21 minutes ago, Christian said:

My solicitor told me yesterday that Im not responisible at all and hes happy to take part in what he believes would be a straightforward case. I think it would be if I was clearly a very small independant sole trader selling 10-15 year old cars as opposed to a large dealership selling fresher stuff with more experience.

Your inexperiance does in no way reduce the consumers rights or expectaions.

As already advised, you need to get the car back to you and have it looked at.

As you've said, the customer is going to take you to court if you don't refund in full - why not spend a little money now, get the car recovered to an independant BMW specialist to have the problem diagnosed. You NEED to know what is actually wrong, and what has caused it to go wrong BEFORE offering anything. If he then takes you to court, you've got a report stating that whatever has gone wrong is because of 'XXXX'

Also, texters are chancers. Don't reply to texts, or they'll expect you to be up and immediatly replying to anything they say. Call, and speak on the phone.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Oh, do not pay a penny to that solicitor, he is talking bollocks

[MOTORS 25]

On 16/08/2018 at 1:30 PM, MOTORS said:

Yes, get the car back to your mechanic.

We sold a 2002 Honda S2000 a couple of years ago with full Honda serv hist 93k. Broke a con-rod and made nice hole in the side of engine. Customer wanted a full refund.      I employed the services of ACE Inspection engineers who reported that the valves had bounced off the piston heads immediately before engine failure (physically marked) . Their    report stated that the driver had probably mis-selected a gear and over-revved the engine causing the failure. Customer collected the car with tail between his legs and got it        repaired elsewhere at his own cost.

Don't give up too early...

If you are going to get the car inspected you need to draft a letter to the customer carefully worded giving him the option to object to your choice of independent examiner. It makes a big difference to awarding of costs in court (if it gets there) and you must comply with the CPR35 & PF35 Civil Procedure Rules from the start. I have a copy of my letter which was sent to my customer. I can't upload it as it's too big but if you PM me I can let you have a copy.  Obviously I recommend that seek your own independent legal advice as well.