Customer car blows up 8 weeks after purchase...

[D&M 66]

21 minutes ago, Christian said:

My solicitor told me yesterday that Im not responisible at all and hes happy to take part in what he believes would be a straightforward case. I think it would be if I was clearly a very small independant sole trader selling 10-15 year old cars as opposed to a large dealership selling fresher stuff with more experience.

Your inexperiance does in no way reduce the consumers rights or expectaions.

As already advised, you need to get the car back to you and have it looked at.

As you've said, the customer is going to take you to court if you don't refund in full - why not spend a little money now, get the car recovered to an independant BMW specialist to have the problem diagnosed. You NEED to know what is actually wrong, and what has caused it to go wrong BEFORE offering anything. If he then takes you to court, you've got a report stating that whatever has gone wrong is because of 'XXXX'

Also, texters are chancers. Don't reply to texts, or they'll expect you to be up and immediatly replying to anything they say. Call, and speak on the phone.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Oh, do not pay a penny to that solicitor, he is talking bollocks

[MOTORS 25]

On 16/08/2018 at 1:30 PM, MOTORS said:

Yes, get the car back to your mechanic.

We sold a 2002 Honda S2000 a couple of years ago with full Honda serv hist 93k. Broke a con-rod and made nice hole in the side of engine. Customer wanted a full refund.      I employed the services of ACE Inspection engineers who reported that the valves had bounced off the piston heads immediately before engine failure (physically marked) . Their    report stated that the driver had probably mis-selected a gear and over-revved the engine causing the failure. Customer collected the car with tail between his legs and got it        repaired elsewhere at his own cost.

Don't give up too early...

If you are going to get the car inspected you need to draft a letter to the customer carefully worded giving him the option to object to your choice of independent examiner. It makes a big difference to awarding of costs in court (if it gets there) and you must comply with the CPR35 & PF35 Civil Procedure Rules from the start. I have a copy of my letter which was sent to my customer. I can't upload it as it's too big but if you PM me I can let you have a copy.  Obviously I recommend that seek your own independent legal advice as well.

[EPV 631]

22 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Oh, do not pay a penny to that solicitor, he is talking bollocks

Agreed. Anyone saying this is straightforward clearly doesn’t appreciate the situation. 

I thought you’d already had a mechanic look and diagnose it. Perhaps get a DEKRA engineers report done and go from there. I think the lack of PDI hamstrings your opportunity for repair. I also think it doesn’t matter what the cause of the issue is, you’d lose in court. 

[Nick M.K. 574]

18 hours ago, boring dave said:

the car in question on this thread is  4.8L 7 series! 10 years old with 128k  do you seriously believe that this would get thrown out

As someone else also said my answer was very specific about a 20 year old car done 500,000 miles. 10 year old done 128K is a different deal altogether. 

[Rory RSC 596]

£100 says this texting chancer never takes him to court.

Inspect it, learn your rights, take on board the advice given and draw a line under the matter.

 

[MSP Motors 39]

"My solicitor" oh do me a favour........

[Nick M.K. 574]

2 minutes ago, MSP Motors said:

"My solicitor" oh do me a favour

Sounds almost like "My mechanic" doesn't it :-) 

[have a word with the wife 299]

2 hours ago, Christian said:

The customer in question can barely spell in messages, a new message coming every couple of hours and a random phone call last night at 11pm!!! He expects the full 6000 refunded and to be honest given his attitude so far Id say if I offered him any less than that he would be taking me straight to court. So the question is then what do I offerhim?

feck all 

you assume he will take you to court ? why ? has he said this ? who is this mechanic thats looked at it ? remember the astra you posted about where the head gasket had allegedly gone ? and you heard no more ?

[andymc1973 199]

its your responsibility, you were happy to take the profit, whether you're new to this does not matter, tell him to bring the car back, as for "my solicitor" FFS

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, Rory RSC said:

£100 says this texting chancer never takes him to court.

Inspect it, learn your rights, take on board the advice given and draw a line under the matter.

 

I’m with your Rory..

[Christian 1]

It's nearly impossible to find fair middle ground based on all the advice I've been given but I definitely really appreciate the advice Ive been given here. Most of my friend's and family are telling me to hard ball it but clearly I have to accept my responsiblity as a business and come to a reasonable solution.

I have been able to confirm that the customer has done just over 2k miles since purchase so I'm thinking of deducting about £1200 off the £6k refund or offering the customer a repair (which has already been rejected because he said he'd be worried about something else going wrong). Hopefully I'm able to find an engine specialist in Ireland that would be willing to fix this shipwreck!

[Arfur Dealy 823]

did you sell it to someone outside the UK in Ireland ? Or are you talking N Ireland? 

[Area 51 33]

In "IRELAND".. that's certainly a new twist...  G'luck with that; they run vehicles on vegetable oil over there (used) from Abrakebabra (you did say white smoke - right?)... as for a BMW specialist, that'll be the local indi toyota/John Deere man then....

Different laws in Ireland too, so god only knows how you'd manage the CRA/returns process on this one.. if your digging in/lawyering up; it'll need to be someone with International law experience.. as I doubt a "foreigner" could bring a cost effect civil action in the UK! But I aint a lawyer.. but I have lived and run motors in Ireland; and rather like their women, they dont seem to know how to treat them!

Assuming the cost of getting it back to you will be down to your man in Ireland too.. goooner expensive to repatriate this one to some garage you can "trust"!

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Area 51

[Arfur Dealy 823]

You do not have to refund him, you have the opportunity to repair. He cannot refuse  the repair.

[Del Boy 76]

1 minute ago, Arfur Dealy said:

You do not have to refund him, you have the opportunity to repair. He cannot refuse  the repair.

Simons right. After 30 days you have the right to repair. He can’t demand a refund unless the repair fails and the fault returns. 

[Area 51 33]

1 minute ago, Arfur Dealy said:

You do not have to refund him, you have the opportunity to repair. He cannot refuse  the repair.

I agree, but this nanker has probably been towing a caravan and horse trailer etc with it. I'd guess if you repair this, it will be something else in 4 weeks time.. as its across the water you have no chance of assessing if the vehicle is being misused..  I cheap Ryanair day return to see it could be in order..

 

[justlooking 48]

1 hour ago, Area 51 said:

I agree, but this nanker has probably been towing a caravan and horse trailer etc with it. I'd guess if you repair this, it will be something else in 4 weeks time.. as its across the water you have no chance of assessing if the vehicle is being misused..  I cheap Ryanair day return to see it could be in order..

 

Could you not organise a clickmechanic-esque inspection, if applicable in Ireland?

i’d definitely still offer the choice of a repair, just so on paper it shows you’ve been fair and offered it (even though you know they’ll reject) in addition to the option of a refund less mileage costs.

hopefully your sales invoice includes a clause that states customer has to return vehicle for refund? If not, let this be a costly lesson and start using said-style of invoice pads.

[EPV 631]

16 minutes ago, justlooking said:

Could you not organise a clickmechanic-esque inspection, if applicable in Ireland?

i’d definitely still offer the choice of a repair, just so on paper it shows you’ve been fair and offered it (even though you know they’ll reject) in addition to the option of a refund less mileage costs.

hopefully your sales invoice includes a clause that states customer has to return vehicle for refund? If not, let this be a costly lesson and start using said-style of invoice pads.

I’m thinking of OP hasn’t done a pdi then this is unlikely, sadly. 

[Stalker 180]

3 hours ago, Christian said:

Hopefully I'm able to find an engine specialist in Ireland that would be willing to fix this shipwreck!

The plot thickens....

Have you sent it across the water?

 

[andymc1973 199]

will he return it to you?

[David Ayers 171]

Christian said in another thread he is based in Northern Ireland

[AutoJacob 34]

Have him return it at his cost to your self - it should say this on your invoice, worded differently obviously.

Do not bend over backwards for him, playing MR nice guy in situations like this does not work, please for the love of god do not seek a "specialist" local to him and have them repair this old lump.

Edited August 19, 2018 by AutoJacob

[Christian 1]

Im from Northern Ireland by the way!

5 hours ago, Area 51 said:

I cheap Ryanair day return to see it could be in order..

 

If I asked ryanair nicely would they hoist a 7 series on board? 

So Ill be spending the majority of my morning trying to find a reputable outfit that will tackle this job and see if I can get some options for repair. I love the reaction here to me being in Ireland, maybe you guys wouldnt last over here! Its as you say and much much worse, infact it feels like people are getting stupider!

 

[Paddy 31]

I know an independent inspector in Newry if that's any help?