If I'm liable for this I'm closing the doors

[MrC 142]

Sold a 2007 50k mile 207 exactly 32 days ago. Customer texts me to say engine light came on, he had it scanned and it needs Cat. This is not covered by the warranty and he wants me to pay for it!! 

Surely to God I dont have to pay or is CRA going to screw me AGAIN! 

 

[Mojo121 229]

I think it's reasonable to expect to replace a catalytic converter on a car after 10 years of wear and tear.

When you sold the car the engine light wasn't on, it didn't come on a few days later because you deleted the fault/ light, you haven't prevented/ removed the light - simply, the cat hadn't failed when you sold him it. It failed a month after.

In the nicest possible way to him it's tough titties. It's a 10 year old car. Cats wear out. Shit happens. His problem.

[have a word with the wife 299]

he might have even misfuelled it

[andymc1973 199]

bet the judge would find in his favor ffs

[MattGM 12]

6 minutes ago, andymc1973 said:

bet the judge would find in his favor ffs

Really?

What's the world coming to then.

As far as engine components go, this is the quintessential 'wear and tear' component, along with timing belts. Catalytic converters have a shelf life, simple.

That said ofcourse, in the context of warranty repairs, it's not going to be a huge one, it's no engine rebuild or dual mass flywheel replacement. Out of principle the answer for me is absolutely no. Maybe in reality IF (big if) CRA would/could go against you, you'd be better taking the smaller hit than the bigger one from the courts.

What's the customer like? can they be appeased with a 'gesture of good will' if it comes to it?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Dear Mr Customer, you bought an old used car. The fault wasn't present at the time of purchase which you confirmed by signing the comprehensive PDI.

Wear and tear is clearly not covered under the CRA. It is your responsibility to take ownership to repair and maintain your car. 

[jimreidvehicle 255]

The customer has come to a dealer in good faith to purchase a vehicle.

Regardless of the price or age of that vehicle it is safe to say that it should be fit for purpose. I fully understand that the light may or may not have been on just before the customer purchased the car however the facts are that the car is not operating properly and it should be even though it is now (just) into the 2nd month of ownership.

If I were in the same situation then I would pay for the CAT not because I have to, but because I should, to do the best by your customer. If the CAT went after 8 or 12 months then yes I agree there is a responsibility to be taken by the customer but 32days???

Sorry, you may hate me for this but my advice is , pay up and look after your customer!

Jim  

[Max Branning 149]

who said it needs a cat? where did the guy take it? could you not just ask him to come back to you so you can run a check on it yourself? This is what i would do.

I have had many cars come back with eml on dash several weeks after sale, often O2 sensor and i will just erase the code and take the car for a drive with the customer in the car. As long as the light stays off then send them on their way, if the light comes back and is persistent then maybe look to start changing parts. Quite often though you will never see them again.

 

[BHM 994]

Don't answer their text. My guess is you'll hear nothing from them.

Text messages are just another way for time wasters & bullshitters to chance their luck dealing in a spineless manner - no different to the 90% of idiots communicating their stupid offers & midnight queries via email.

My adverts all clearly state No Text Messages. Any received are simply ignored.

Sorry to those of you who actually enter into text discussions with potential customers, but I refuse to in order to protect my sanity. Why on earth anyone chooses to do business by text is beyond me. Business deals are definitely NOT conducted by text message.

[betginge 73]

1 hour ago, Max Branning said:

who said it needs a cat? where did the guy take it? could you not just ask him to come back to you so you can run a check on it yourself? This is what i would do.

I have had many cars come back with eml on dash several weeks after sale, often O2 sensor and i will just erase the code and take the car for a drive with the customer in the car. As long as the light stays off then send them on their way, if the light comes back and is persistent then maybe look to start changing parts. Quite often though you will never see them again.

 

 

Agree with this, and if it does come back, get it in the workshop get it diagnosed correctly and pay up and move on. If it was me I would pay out to fix it after 32 days, if it was 4 months plus with a few thousand miles on it and would not  pay to fix unless it was exceptional circumstances. 

them bloody pugs and lambda sensors are a nightmare for reliability , top tip if it is a 02 sensor fault dont buy cheap nasty ones, peugeots don't like your nasty euro car part of ebay cheap sensors, ive been here already  just buy the OE ones like bosch or NGK etc 

[It's me 615]

im on the fence

these peugeots like vauxhals love to show shiny lights

i too would want to see the car and do a full scan followed by an inspection of things and a co check

if customer was genuine and it was a genuine fault i would replace foc

for what its worth i had this exact fault a few weeks back it turned out to be the first lambda out of parameters i swapped it out for another car same model and engine and both cars now perfect

[Arfur Dealy 823]

The car was 7/8 years past any period the manufacturer was prepared to guarantee its quality. To expect new car ownership guarantees for an old used car isn't reasonable. 

19 minutes ago, BHM said:

Don't answer their text. My guess is you'll hear nothing from them.

Text messages are just another way for time wasters & bullshitters to chance their luck dealing in a spineless manner - no different to the 90% of idiots communicating their stupid offers & midnight queries via email.

My adverts all clearly state No Text Messages. Any received are simply ignored.

Sorry to those of you who actually enter into text discussions with potential customers, but I refuse to in order to protect my sanity. Why on earth anyone chooses to do business by text is beyond me. Business deals are definitely NOT conducted by text message.

BHM. I wholeheartedly absolutely agree with you

[MrC 142]

I'm not going to have any of this, how can I realistically be liable for this. I have had a record year of repairing other people cars and I'm getting tired of it. If I have a car that needs work before it goes out then it gets done, everything is sold in good faith. As a rule I spend a couple of days using them myself. 

What do I do from now on, replace any wear and tear item on a car just in case it goes! We are talking about 10 year old motors FFS.

People just don't seem to want to take responsibility for their own cars. 

[It's me 615]

15 minutes ago, MrC said:

I'm not going to have any of this, how can I realistically be liable for this. I have had a record year of repairing other people cars and I'm getting tired of it. If I have a car that needs work before it goes out then it gets done, everything is sold in good faith. As a rule I spend a couple of days using them myself. 

What do I do from now on, replace any wear and tear item on a car just in case it goes! We are talking about 10 year old motors FFS.

People just don't seem to want to take responsibility for their own cars. 

dont beat yourself up

seriously

the jobs not worth that

get it out of your head and reassess in the morning

[MrC 142]

8 minutes ago, s and b said:

dont beat yourself up

seriously

the jobs not worth that

get it out of your head and reassess in the morning

I've had a tough year so far, record number of cars needing a lump of dough throwing at them. Record number of customers who think I should be sponsoring their motoring. I wouldn't mind so much but sales are hardly on fire.

I'm just about scraping through each month lately so when someones being unreasonable I just want to tell them to fuck right off and when they get there fuck off some more 

I think I need a large Vodka.. But I cant afford any

[andymc1973 199]

the problem is as we all know is that magistrates hate used car dealers, if it went to court they would tell you to fix, it's a grey area but they will side with the consumer, sometimes i just say some you win some you lose, jim's sumeed it up

[MrC 142]

This is the problem, we just bend over and give in straight away. I've done it myself to many times for an easy life. We seem to live in fear of the courts and its not fair.  Im 43 and have been doing this in one form or another since my mid 20's cut my teeth wedge shaped Rovers, Sierra's and 405's , I'm seriously questioning things at the moment.

 

 

[BHM 994]

It's because of this that I take a hard line. I use ALL of mine, including p/x shite, for a good few miles & prove it via the photos to potential customers.

One thing I've learnt is don't fear the courts unless you are actually going. 99% do not have any intention, or the ability to complete the forms, to instigate proceedings. It's all bluster & bullshit from people running their lives by what they hear from their ignorant mates & read on the internet posted by other whingers.

You're absolutely correct about people expecting you to subsidise their lifestyle with their secondhand cars. Times are frigging hard but £1 only buys £1 of goods, no matter how hard times are. Be fair, but be hard & don't be afraid to make it absolutely clear that you don't take shit.

I attempted to educate a punter & his Mrs the other week when looking at an 09 Zafira for £2K and complaining about the dimple on one door (it was an absolute disaster to them, Champagne taste, lemonade money) "Sir, the fact you've scrimped & saved £2000 counts for nothing. Whether you piss £2000 up the wall per night in the casino or you've sold one of your kids kidneys for the £2000, £2000 buys you £2000 of goods". I have to say they appeared somewhat surprised.

Anyhow they've gone for a coffee to discuss it & said they'd phone me back. It must be a big cup cos it was a fortnight ago & they've still not phoned. I wonder how they keep the cup warm for that long???

[MrC 142]

Your post made me feel better. I am going to start taking a hard stand on these type of unreasonable claims. 

I have always been a reasonable type of guy i don't like people to have any kind of bitter experience. But there is an element of people who will take the piss

I replaced a spring on a clio not do long back 3 months after they bought it.!

Why don't I just open my wallet and let these people help themselves. 

 

 

[umesh 336]

Personally I'd get the car back , check out what the issue is and HELP the customer after all does it matter if its 28 days - 32 days , its not a long time since they trusted you? Even if it costs you a CAT Just think of the goodwill and future business ... but that's just how I would deal with it Mr C.

I say to all my customers even after the warranty has run out should something go wrong obviously it won't be covered however please let me know and if I can help in any way I'll do it , it doesn't have to be financially, can be advise / recommendation etc and that again builds customers and recommendations. 

[trade vet 704]

8 minutes ago, umesh said:

Personally I'd get the car back , check out what the issue is and HELP the customer after all does it matter if its 28 days - 32 days , its not a long time since they trusted you? Even if it costs you a CAT Just think of the goodwill and future business ... but that's just how I would deal with it Mr C.

I say to all my customers even after the warranty has run out should something go wrong obviously it won't be covered however please let me know and if I can help in any way I'll do it , it doesn't have to be financially, can be advise / recommendation etc and that again builds customers and recommendations. 

Spot on !

[BHM 994]

Sorry but I have to disagree with the last two posts. I believe todays customers are simply price led. Any potential customers coming via recommendation still come quoting allegedly cheaper cars on the internet & seem to forget the reason they came in the first place - i.e. their friend's good car! To some people there's always a better deal out there.

I've got cars with FSH, new brakes all around, full MOT but if the price isn't right 90% of punters will sod off & see a heap of shit £200 cheaper. 

A few amusing examples that spring to mind;

1) Mid December. A guy actually phoned to cancel (makes a pleasant change!). His reasoning was because the car had a full MOT he said he couldn't afford to MOT it next Christmas because it's an expensive time of year. Basically he did NOT want a full MOT!!!!!

2) Last month a man turns up who'd two days previously had bought a freshly MOT'd cheapie which on the way home a brake pipe burst & the local garage had since condemned the car. I'd sold his son a car a year ago, apparently it's been spot-on & he said he should of come to me. After driving my few hundred quid cheapie (with a full genuine MOT) he starts haggling over £100 and then says he's got 2 other heaps to see. Never seen the man again.

3) Another man came to view a Volvo, his friend had bought from me 6 months ago. He attempted to crab the car to death & low balled me to which I just laughed & reminded him that I'm doing the job right. 2 days later, he phoned me (mistakenly) to say "the car you've just sold me hasn't even made it home, I'm with the AA & he's said the head gasket's gone". I roared laughing and responded "No, I sold you nowt, you were whinging over the price & left in a huff. I bet you regret not buying mine now!" More of his huffing & puffing and by now I was howling with laughter. I told him he was greedy and greedy money gets greedy service, good luck with his knackered car but his mate with my car might give him a tow if the AA can't help him. The phone then went down.

My attitude is the population of the UK is over 62.5 million (I know that includes kids) so if one man doesn't want the car there are usually plenty more out there who will.

 

[andymc1973 199]

a lot of the worries aren't helped by autotrader allowing reviews

[Max Branning 149]

Mrc said that the warranty does not cover it, which leads me back to the warranty argument of self warranting the cars. Especially in situations like this.

The warranty companies just wont pay out or help the customer in any way which leads to more frustration all round, the customer is much more likely to come back to you with the hump after they have been fobbed off by someone who probably knows nothing about cars in a warranty call center.

I put £100 from each sale into a separate warranty fund and let it build, when i have to pay out for a repair it does not hurt so much and i am usually quids in at year end.

Why anyone wastes money on insurance backed warranties anymore is beyond me.

[andymc1973 199]

ive got a car here, one owner fvwsh on a 56 plate, no one gives a toss, just want 500 off for cash, was 3495, would i take 3k, now at 3k would i take 2.5k, these cars are harder to buy at the auction as we mistakenly look on their provenance as a good thing, they know the price of everything but the value of nothing