'Amateur' Valuation Options

[LISL 7]

To answer your initial post, and like someone else has said, the sales are your best bet. AT, Gumtree, eBay and then work backwards. Make sure you factor in enough when it comes to prep. What kind of cars will you sell, anything and everything or diesels or estates or cheap sports cars or family Ford's or hot hatches? 

This trade, and I'll probably be vilified for saying it, is fairly closed. And to be honest, rightly so. Everyone assumes they've never seen a poor car dealer, but what one man classes as a living another could piss away on a day out at the races. 

In my experience, it took me nearly 6 years and about £15k in losses working part time and building contacts until I realised one thing; this isn't built for the weekend dealer. Between actually dealing with potential customers (worst and best part of the job), you've got to source the right stock at the right price. It's changed from the 70s where auctions were practically the only place to go for dealers, we're now in the information age and if you look hard enough there are options. Having said that, I'd hazard a guess and say all dealers still buy at least some proportion of stock from the block as it's easy. If book prices are met or exceeded and you feel they're too steep, don't buy anything, simple. 

I used to download catalogues, research prices and then print them out and write next to the lot number what I'd be willing to pay and stick to it, until I learnt the trade and built confidence. It also makes it easier when vendors and auctioneers know who you are, as I've seen them taking bids off the wall and driving prices up a grand or even more. 

Like anything worth doing, it won't come easy. But think about a few main points 

Where will you sell from? If a premises, where are you and what's the going rent. If you're going to sell from home are your neighbours ok or tossers? I'd be a tosser if someone was selling cars on the road I lived on. 

What will you buy? Or at least try to buy? 

Do you have a paint shop and mechanic you can trust? 

You'll need a warranty company that pays out (Hardy har) 

Insurance is a bloody killer

If you're working by yourself, how will you find time to source stock? 

Have you got the capital to invest in stock? Like I said, after me personally losing a small fortune I then took a massive punt and invested in my first 7 cars and built from there. 

Will you trade up, or deal in numbers? 

Will you work off volume of sales or profit per unit? 

Will you offer finance? If so, through who? You'll need a license as I'm sure you know. 

You can be a "dealer" who (we all know one and I personally HATE them) who advertise as private sellers but are dealers. These guys give us a bad name and don't take their job seriously. They have sod all infrastructure and I'd bet don't pay any tax at all.

Or you can actually try and make it work, properly, build a brand and deal with the good and the bad (much more of the latter) but this will take a massive amount of time, money and even more effort. 

Anyway, this post wasn't meant to be too long and it is so I do apologise, but think long and hard. 

Rish

 

[Mojo121 229]

Look to be honest you'll make some money doing it but it won't be enough when you take into account the time and worry. Trust me, if you want to retire in 20 years, buying and selling 6-10+ year old cars isn't the way to do it. Many of the guys on here have been trading cars for a long time and it's the only industry they know; they're not doing it because they're getting home to their mansion and 10 car supercar garage and if they are they made their real money a long time ago.

I know, despite what everyone's saying, you'll start trading cars anyway because you'll think "they're all making loads of money - just look at the margins from when they're bought to what they're selling for. They're just putting me off. Greedy sods". Now, I don't mean to be condescending in anyway but you're not taking into account the prep, mechanical repairs, advertising, the 2 months it sits before it sells where you have to look at it and keep cleaning it, pitch rent, bills, vat, the list goes on and it's all higher than you think. 

I do wish you the best of luck but my point is that I just think they're are other more innovative and original ways to make money nowadays. If a good option came up I'd get out. I'm certainly looking into other businesses... recent worthwhile ones might have been Craft Beer bars, E-Cigarettes...

[metcars 397]

1 hour ago, tradex said:

The other oft forgotten thing?

Pension.

You will have a good one if I'm assuming you for an OEM.

I'm in the middle of the pension nightmare right now. Because I'm now over 55 I have magically become a pensions actuary and I'm better qualified to invest my pot than they are?

[trade vet 704]

11 hours ago, LISL said:

To answer your initial post, and like someone else has said, the sales are your best bet. AT, Gumtree, eBay and then work backwards. Make sure you factor in enough when it comes to prep. What kind of cars will you sell, anything and everything or diesels or estates or cheap sports cars or family Ford's or hot hatches? 

This trade, and I'll probably be vilified for saying it, is fairly closed. And to be honest, rightly so. Everyone assumes they've never seen a poor car dealer, but what one man classes as a living another could piss away on a day out at the races. 

In my experience, it took me nearly 6 years and about £15k in losses working part time and building contacts until I realised one thing; this isn't built for the weekend dealer. Between actually dealing with potential customers (worst and best part of the job), you've got to source the right stock at the right price. It's changed from the 70s where auctions were practically the only place to go for dealers, we're now in the information age and if you look hard enough there are options. Having said that, I'd hazard a guess and say all dealers still buy at least some proportion of stock from the block as it's easy. If book prices are met or exceeded and you feel they're too steep, don't buy anything, simple. 

I used to download catalogues, research prices and then print them out and write next to the lot number what I'd be willing to pay and stick to it, until I learnt the trade and built confidence. It also makes it easier when vendors and auctioneers know who you are, as I've seen them taking bids off the wall and driving prices up a grand or even more. 

Like anything worth doing, it won't come easy. But think about a few main points 

Where will you sell from? If a premises, where are you and what's the going rent. If you're going to sell from home are your neighbours ok or tossers? I'd be a tosser if someone was selling cars on the road I lived on. 

What will you buy? Or at least try to buy? 

Do you have a paint shop and mechanic you can trust? 

You'll need a warranty company that pays out (Hardy har) 

Insurance is a bloody killer

If you're working by yourself, how will you find time to source stock? 

Have you got the capital to invest in stock? Like I said, after me personally losing a small fortune I then took a massive punt and invested in my first 7 cars and built from there. 

Will you trade up, or deal in numbers? 

Will you work off volume of sales or profit per unit? 

Will you offer finance? If so, through who? You'll need a license as I'm sure you know. 

You can be a "dealer" who (we all know one and I personally HATE them) who advertise as private sellers but are dealers. These guys give us a bad name and don't take their job seriously. They have sod all infrastructure and I'd bet don't pay any tax at all.

Or you can actually try and make it work, properly, build a brand and deal with the good and the bad (much more of the latter) but this will take a massive amount of time, money and even more effort. 

Anyway, this post wasn't meant to be too long and it is so I do apologise, but think long and hard. 

Rish

 

Excellent post- This guy must be getting the picture by now!

[Rory RSC 596]

Get stuck in and best of luck. Its not all doom and gloom and selling a few cars and dipping your toe in is sensible rather than selling your house / heirlooms and walking out of a job into a 50 car pitch with no experience.

Best way to learn this job is to actually buy and sell, make some money, take some losses and develop that feel and instinct you need.

 

The post Rish made that has been quoted above is excellent.

[trade vet 704]

3 hours ago, tradex said:

The other oft forgotten thing?

Pension.

You will have a good one if I'm assuming you for an OEM.

Pensions,we have all seen elderly ex 'flash' car dealers end up in a local authority accommodation--- why,because they have no private pension !

[SAPFO 1]

5 hours ago, tradex said:

The other oft forgotten thing?

Pension.

You will have a good one if I'm assuming you for an OEM.

Some great advice thanks. I have a pension, what its worth when Im 67 at this rate is around £113 in todays money right now. Thats me paying 6%, and my company paying about 10%. 

 

I'd like to buy couple of cheap houses/flats buy to let eventually as a pension investment hence I've taken the 2nd job purely to save for that. I know the buy to let market is dead in general as a yearly profit, but if you can put up an initial 20/25k, then the rest in an ideal world is paid off by the tenants leading to a large profit later on in life. Not cut & dried either though that game.

 

 

[justina3 518]

god you know how to pick hard industries i have spent the last 5 years trying to get out of the rental market as the costs and rights now levied against a landlord is nothing short of insane. 

If i had my time again i would be working for a big company in the city, self employed is nothing but an uphill struggle these days. 

[have a word with the wife 299]

imagine getting a pay packet  imagine looking in your bank account and seeing additional money every month  imagine looking at a payslip and someones already paid your tax and ni  imagine turning off your brain at five pm  imagine not working sat or sunday 

[Ocsltd 133]

23 minutes ago, have a word with the wife said:

imagine getting a pay packet  imagine looking in your bank account and seeing additional money every month  imagine looking at a payslip and someones already paid your tax and ni  imagine turning off your brain at five pm  imagine not working sat or sunday 

Quite appealing isn't it?! 

[NoMargin 11]

Just stay away from the auctions, you'll end up with some cars you wish you never bought, plus the auctioneers will just take the mick and bid you up.... Buy private or from ebay lots of bargains there. Good luck 

[metcars 397]

50 minutes ago, NoMargin said:

Just stay away from the auctions, you'll end up with some cars you wish you never bought, plus the auctioneers will just take the mick and bid you up.... Buy private or from ebay lots of bargains there. Good luck 

Although if he has the time to drive around all day looking at mis-described sheds he could always do a bit of 'mini cabbing'

[NoMargin 11]

3 hours ago, metcars said:

Although if he has the time to drive around all day looking at mis-described sheds he could always do a bit of 'mini cabbing'

Very true..But if he's willing to put the work rate in it could work.....Then again he had 2/3 jobs already, I'm not sure how he will have the time, to sell the cars

[BHM 994]

2 or 3 jobs, possibly adding car dealing, thinking of buying to let houses. What next? Part-time Rodeo rider, some part-time work for MI5 or perhaps some part-time missionary work in the Far East.

I bet those of us on here who are walking-the-walk (rather than talking-the-talk) were unaware we are stretching out a part-time job to full-time hours.

Like I email back to them eBay emailers; "Good luck".

 

[SAPFO 1]

On 08/06/2017 at 5:14 PM, justina3 said:

god you know how to pick hard industries i have spent the last 5 years trying to get out of the rental market as the costs and rights now levied against a landlord is nothing short of insane. 

If i had my time again i would be working for a big company in the city, self employed is nothing but an uphill struggle these days. 

I'm nowhere near buy to let yet, but I always though the idea of putting 20/30k into something to x 4 it over 20/25 years was a good investment long term. It's not like you are paying the mortgage every month. And I know you do have the downside, trust me, I've rented privately enough before I finally got on the ladder.

 

19 hours ago, NoMargin said:

Just stay away from the auctions, you'll end up with some cars you wish you never bought, plus the auctioneers will just take the mick and bid you up.... Buy private or from ebay lots of bargains there. Good luck 

I've probably sat in around 8 or so different auctions now and not bid on anything yet. As it happens, the other day I seen an old school mate who was working at the auction and deals with dealer finance. The auctioneer came over while were were chatting, so hopefully the link is there to not scam me when I do make a move. The other week the yard manager left a set of keys on the roof off a motor too. I quietly went over to him and told him. I get a handshake every time I go into the yard now. Little things like that can make the experience easier right?

 

18 hours ago, metcars said:

Although if he has the time to drive around all day looking at mis-described sheds he could always do a bit of 'mini cabbing'

Not sure I've mentioned this, but the 2nd job is fackin Uber. Well, it would have been this weekend had I not put the council sub committee meeting as the 9th on myth planner instead of 7th when it actually was. Got to wait until July 18th at least now.

 

4 hours ago, BHM said:

2 or 3 jobs, possibly adding car dealing, thinking of buying to let houses. What next? Part-time Rodeo rider, some part-time work for MI5 or perhaps some part-time missionary work in the Far East.

I bet those of us on here who are walking-the-walk (rather than talking-the-talk) were unaware we are stretching out a part-time job to full-time hours.

Like I email back to them eBay emailers; "Good luck".

 

Stop being so negative. I'm miles away from what'd id like to do, but why not try and plan 10 years ahead? If I can get a buy to let in for example  10/12 years, that could be a nice lump to take be through my 60's/70's. I started to plan to get on the ladder at my lowest point after a job loss during the credit crunch, and 8 years later I was on the ladder.

 

 

 

Oh, and I bought car last night because it just popped up cheap while I was pricing a stand up punch bag on Gumtree! It's an 03 Silver 206cc. 82k, leather. 2 months MOT. Hood works fine. Drives fine. Airbag light on. You wouldn't have it on your patch as it is thats for sure. Needs 3 tyres & a drop link. £200.

 

Now, I wouldn't mind keeping this for the lads footy trips overt the summer, as it just me and him on these trips and it'd be nice in the summer with the roof down, but where is the line I need to be aware of between personal use & dealer? There is a good chance I'll sell this before I go on holiday in August while the suns still out.

 

 

[andymc1973 199]

the auctioneer looks after himself, no one else, never forget that

[SAPFO 1]

Somethings just sprung into my mind that happened down the auction. There are 2 places where people usually stand/sit. On the stairs (newbies etc) , or outside the door (usually experienced people as you'll know). Both cannot see each other. The other day I noticed a lad stand where he could see both positions. I remember the auctioneer saying to the lad "no standing here today mate"....

[Max Branning 149]

22 minutes ago, SAPFO said:

Somethings just sprung into my mind that happened down the auction. There are 2 places where people usually stand/sit. On the stairs (newbies etc) , or outside the door (usually experienced people as you'll know). Both cannot see each other. The other day I noticed a lad stand where he could see both positions. I remember the auctioneer saying to the lad "no standing here today mate"....

The lad was'nt standing on the rostrum was he ?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Forget the auctioneer, he will run you up. You just have to decide your limit and be prepared to turn your back and walk out. When the auctioneers knows you are actually a regular buyer you will get more loyalty, however you have to turn your back many many times to show them you don't allow yourself to be run up... Plenty more cars....

[SAPFO 1]

 

3 minutes ago, Max Branning said:

The lad was'nt standing on the rostrum was he ?

Nah, by the main counter.

1 minute ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Forget the auctioneer, he will run you up. You just have to decide your limit and be prepared to turn your back and walk out. When the auctioneers knows you are actually a regular buyer you will get more loyalty, however you have to turn your back many many times to show them you don't allow yourself to be run up... Plenty more cars....

Thats how I've been doing it in my head. What would I pay, see where it goes. Thing that had me the first few times was thinking cars had sole, only for 80% of them to be back on 2 days later. How many times will the seller pay the entry fee?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Auctioneers will bluff the sale, don't believe they are sold. 

[SAPFO 1]

6 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Auctioneers will bluff the sale, don't believe they are sold. 

Why do they do that?

[Max Branning 149]

19 minutes ago, SAPFO said:

Why do they do that?

If the auctioneers never bid off the wall then certain cars would never meet their reserve. Some auctioneers are much better at this than others though and its actually quite funny watching them sometimes...

[SAPFO 1]

I have found myself wondering who the feck he's looking at at times I'll be honest.

 

I've got a mate as I've previously said who does trade to trade, small margins, and fast paced. He was telling me the guy he's had a 60k Range Rover off for 56k, + 2 BMW's in the teens this week, also has loads of low priced 03/04 Lexus & X5 type stuff. Maybe I should dip my toe in and go through a whole purchase & sale. Problem is they are a few hundred miles away. I'll know more next week about that

[NoMargin 11]

9 hours ago, andymc1973 said:

the auctioneer looks after himself, no one else, never forget that

FACT! 

7 hours ago, SAPFO said:

 

Nah, by the main counter.

Thats how I've been doing it in my head. What would I pay, see where it goes. Thing that had me the first few times was thinking cars had sole, only for 80% of them to be back on 2 days later. How many times will the seller pay the entry fee?

The big vendors pay no entry fees as far as I'm aware, hence the extortionate buyers fee. 

 

10 hours ago, SAPFO said:

Oh, and I bought car last night because it just popped up cheap while I was pricing a stand up punch bag on Gumtree! It's an 03 Silver 206cc. 82k, leather. 2 months MOT. Hood works fine. Drives fine. Airbag light on. You wouldn't have it on your patch as it is thats for sure. Needs 3 tyres & a drop link. £200.

 

Now, I wouldn't mind keeping this for the lads footy trips overt the summer, as it just me and him on these trips and it'd be nice in the summer with the roof down, but where is the line I need to be aware of between personal use & dealer? There is a good chance I'll sell this before I go on holiday in August while the suns still out.

 

 

Try not to use the cars for personal, detach yourself from it... It's there for business and to make money. Give it a good test drive, get tyres and drop link, and get MOT, Sell it ASAP.