EPV

You need to be an IAR, Introducer Appointed Representative. This means that legally you can pass the details of the customer on to the broker you are an IAR for.

You’ve left yourself to be shot at a little bit here as you can’t prove the fault didn’t exist at the point of sale. That said, i’d still push back on this bloke. “I can smell smoke through the vents” isn’t a fault. He might be that type that can smell something no one else in the room can. “Can anyone smell gas? No? Must be just me then” etc I wouldn’t be ready to refund this bloke just yet. Offer up an inspection, diagnoses and repair if applicable. If he wants to reject the car end of, he’ll have to do a bit better than “I can smell smoke” Is there any smoke from the engine? In the cabin? Sounds like buyers remorse and why should you have to pay for his lack of foresight. Different story if the gearbox went, that a fault. Smelling smoke, that ain’t isn’t necessarily a fault with the car it could be a fault with the punter!

What paperwork went with the car in terms of receipt and pdi? Sounds like buyers remorse to me, that is a fairly lumpy car and as such not bought lightly, in other words bought only by a handful of punters. In that respect 99% of buyers in that category would be happy with the offer of a fix but he wants a return = Buyers remorse

A3 3.2 Quattros. Picking a 1 owner 33,000 miles one up tomorrow. Will be gone with 15 days at full price. What avants go well for you, A4 or A6’s?

A lot of BCA’s stock comes from their own source (I.e. WBAC) which i’m reluctant to buy from for obvious reasons. Where does Manheim stock come from mainly? Main dealers/franchises?

Update; he rang this morning, results of the manual test confirmed the trip computer marries up with the actual MPG he’s getting. “It should be getting more” cried the customer ”according to who though?” ”well the manufacturer” ”Volkswagen? Well we all know what their reputation is like with figures about cars and the car is 8 years old so it’s not likely to reflect one straight out of the box anyway. I’m not sure what more I can do in this instance” ”well I think it’s got a fault and needs to be repaired under warranty” ”it’s not a fault mr customer, 23mpg on a 8 year old saloon with a 1.8 petrol engine driven in 5 mile bursts isn’t a fault” That was pretty much the end of it. I’m sure if I offered to take the car back for a refund he’d bite my hand off, buyers remorse. I’m not going to obviously.

Not saying you was my dear.

There’s a few people on this thread skim reading, not looking at the video or even photos of the car and passing judgement.

That’s news to me. I opened a business account ages ago and i’m not vat registered? Maybe they changed it

If you say so.

Maybe cos you skimmed it mate!

Good advice imo, along with S&B. Think about the type of person who is likely to be buying a convertible, a bit of a "look at me" type. I'm guilty of that, I've had a couple of verts in my time, lairy colours etc. So, the look at me types will not want to live with paintwork like that nor will they want to get a nice car for the summer and think they've got the hassle of taking it into a bodyshop straight away. Like Grant says, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place at £3,295, too expensive for trade (which was my original point what feels like several days ago) and the type of buyer won't see a grand below retail as a good thing, they'll see it as hassle and there will be better examples out there where they don't have to give their new car up for a week whilst it gets painted. If it was a Diesel Ford Galaxy, that would be a different story, someone who wants a cavernous beast to throw all their shit and kids in, cheap on fuel and who gives a toss how many paint chips it has as the missus will only add another 5 each time she goes out. There are 12 similar cars nationwide, ranging from £4-5k depending on mileage, spec etc, just on AT. If you want to compete, you're going to have to prep it. If you want to move it on, you're going to have to shove it back in the auction, or, sell it to a proper trader and cover your arse with copies of trade insurance etc. Just my opinion, fwiw.

I knew what you meant but I also can see how the yoot of today would think otherwise!

Mark, for some reason you keep referring to your honesty, integrity etc. I presume because you think I am questioning that. I’m not. Your moral compass can point wherever it likes mate, that’s neither here nor there for the point i’m trying to make But I think it’s worthwhile pointing out that how you are proposing to handle this sale is leaving you exposed. Again, each to their own. People can see both sides and make their own mind up.

It doesn’t matter that you are honest, not having anyone over, not hiding faults etc that’s not what i’m saying. I am saying that if trading standards read your advert and you are pinning your hopes on a cleverly worded piece of paper as your defence then you are not mitigating as much risk as possible. Will you get a screamer? Probably not. Will you end up in court? Very unlikely. Will you have an unwelcome visit from trading standards? I doubt it. But I didn’t think the point of this forum was to discuss bad practices as though it was all fine and dandy. There’s a newbie on this thread, he may read this thread and think “well if xyz is doing it and he’s an established dealer it must be alright” I’ve pointed out a few reasons why I think it’s a dangerous game to play. These are reasons garnered from months of reading the experiences and opinions of some of the established dealers on here, Lawgistics opinions and common sense of how trading standards view dealers trying to circumnavigation the CRA. Maybe irreparably was an exaggeration but if you’re happy to take the risk of an unwelcome knock on the door for an extra grand, as I said earlier, each to their own. If I was a brand newbie i’d want to know the real risks and possible reward and make a decision for myself. Not be given the impression that a poorly worded advert and a cleverly worded piece of paper means I can sell trade only deals to consumers and not have any comebacks.

Engineer out all risk no. Engineer out all risk from people who could theoretically damage your business irreparably? I’d say that’s quite important to take as much action as you can to protect yourself personally.

Ok well fair enough then, it’s just your earlier comments (and your advert) didn’t refer to obtaining proof of trading, just that you were going to get the buyer to sign a piece of legally worded paper and keep a copy of the advert. A hundred quid for materials yes but what about advertising costs, transport costs, fresh MOT, small service etc and all the other overheads like trade insurance, plates, website, warranty (or money kept aside for repairs) which could add up to another £300. You’re basically inviting a part time trader who has to be handy with touch ins and basic mechanics to earn £600 and that’s assuming someone is willing to pay £4,295 from a part time trader. So this comes back to the point I made in the first place that at £3,295 I can’t see anyone in the trade going for it. You’re appealing to a very small band of people, I.e. a part time trader who is handy with touch ins and able to do a basic service. And fairly local to you. Is correct answer. Instead of “the reason it’s a trade sale” put “the reason the car is priced so reasonably is there are a few light cosmetic marks around the car. The car drives really well and would be a perfect companion for the summer” or something like that.

It’s not scaremongering. The advert doesn’t say trade insurance require to buy the car. It says you will need to sign a piece of paper saying you’re in the motor trade. The advert also says things like “cheap car for the summer” which wouldn’t help Mark’s case if a buyer became a screamer

A trader won’t turn up to buy that. Not a proper one anyway for reasons you mentioned. I suspect Mark is playing a dangerous game of trying to take a consumers rights away by getting them to sign a piece of paper and hoping trading standards accept he’s acted correctly. I could be wrong but that’s the vibe i’m getting. A few things would count against Mark in this instance, should the buyer turn screamer and call trading standards 1. He’s advertising the car via a classified on a platform that is clearly consumer based. It’s not a trade to trade site. 2. The description in the advert states the car drives without fault and it’s only cosmetic issues. This would be seen as misleading, or that you are suggesting the car is mechanically sound. 3. To ensure your arse is covered you should get proof that the person who turns up to buy the car is a trader. Copy of trade insurance would do. The onus is on you to prove they are a trader not the other way around. This will be impossible as we know, the person turning up to buy the car won’t be a trader but joe public wanting a trade price car but without the trade risk. Trading standards would look at all these things and see a bona fide trader selling a car on a public platform, for private money and attempting to use a little bit of clever wording to evade their responsibilities under the CRA. I can see why some people would go down this route with a £500 banger. You just make sure you’re selling to the right kind of person, that you are sure they know the score. Don’t ask them to sign anything, cash deal, see the car for what it is, a shitter etc. Even that is a risk but a small one. I think this is playing with fire, for little return in the grand scheme of things. I’ve been doing this only 4 months so I don’t want to sound like a condescending know it all but from what i’ve read on here, on Lawgistics website etc stuff like this can fuck you right up and is nowhere near worth the grief. Each to their own.

You’re not the first to try and dodge their responsibities under the CRA, I doubt you’ll be the last but you’re asking for trouble in my opinion!

A grand behind retail but your market is traders and it needs a bit of prep to command full retail money? Cant see it myself mate, I think if you advertise it to traders only it’s trade money, if you want private money then you have to accept the consequences (potential costs and headaches) that comes with retailing it. Unless of course you’re planning to sell it to joe public under a trade sale in which case you’re playing with fire in my humble opinion but it’s your neck!

You will struggle to get £3295 for that i’d say, trade money is around £2,300 so I cant see you getting a grand above that selling it as a trade sale.

I didn’t mean to worry you, it’s just the type of car that appeals to one subset of buyers, old men. That said if you have the only one in your local area, in the right colour with the right spec and it’s priced right....

Good luck with it mate

How have you ended up with a car like that? That could stick around for months until the right buyer comes along!