Is warranty legally necessary with discounted cars

[tradegirl 112]

7 minutes ago, awc1000 said:

It contradicts if its just an eml light, if this were the case you would simply fix it and wouldn't be looking to sell it cheaper 'as is', if your aware it has underlying issues as stated then the eml light on is kind of irrelevant, hence selling on with an intermittent fault would be asking for trouble,

If you have exhausted trying to fix the car and it owes you wrong then sorry to hear that but that's life, no point thinking a punter will be getting a bargain, he only will if you give him an opportunity to buy it and haunt you later, likely ending in refund.

send it to auction, hope someone else takes it on, as soon as it's out of your life the sooner it will be out of your head, good luck with the next one.

No we did end up sending it through, and lost £3k off it. Point is, there was a persistent EML that pointed to one thing, but wouldn't go away.

But if I sold that saying "there's an EML and the car intermittently goes into limp mode and we can't fix it. Drives fine otherwise (which is exactly how it was), I think the odds are very strong that it will come back and bite me in the ass if I sell it outside of auction. Which is unfair because I would have been completely honest, and hiding nothing.

[Lazz 16]

I think if you are selling broke part exchanges which I do and describe them as such I work on the premises that most people are ok but if push comes to shove and it goes south I just have it back and move on and sell it again and don't sweat it.

I often wounder if trading standards get a bee in their bonnet about paperwork because it leads to a easy conviction for them.

i understand while some people only sell stuff under manufactors warranty.

[awc1000 93]

2 minutes ago, tradegirl said:

No we did end up sending it through, and lost £3k off it. Point is, there was a persistent EML that pointed to one thing, but wouldn't go away.

But if I sold that saying "there's an EML and the car intermittently goes into limp mode and we can't fix it. Drives fine otherwise (which is exactly how it was), I think the odds are very strong that it will come back and bite me in the ass if I sell it outside of auction. Which is unfair because I would have been completely honest, and hiding nothing.

3k loss is painful but at least its gone now,  it does seem unfair, however as mentioned if you are selling vehicles  as a  business you are liable, the issues and the price don't come into it unless - you sell to another trader or a person who will use the vehicle in line with certain business's, taxis etc.

for the record what was the car / age / miles?

[LawJaw 50]

It is a very difficult market and there is a huge temptation to forget the liabilities a motor dealer takes on when he/she has the pleasure of selling another car.  The simple truth is that if you are selling to a private customer the car you sell must be of satisfactory quality.  The other truth is that a car is such a complex beast you do not know when the components are going to fail.  If you are not going to go out of business then you need to leave a sensible profit in the deal to cover these hidden problems that might arise and leave you with a wage.

I always say the art of selling cars is the ability to buy the right one, at the right price.

[justlooking 48]

3 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

No you can't. You sell it as unroadworthy and unfit for purpose, to be broken for parts, to be trailored away. If the buyer wishes to entertain a repair that's their choice. Your advert and sales invoice replicates the above. You cannot sell and unroadworthy vehicle to a layman unless you cover your arse with the above. You should know this as a dealer. 

Don't ever advertise a car as "sold as seen" or "trade sale", its a huge no no. Don't ever imply it is something it isn't. Be honest and upfront.

Honesty is the best policy. 

Some honesty.

then some CLEAR paperwork and a touch more honesty and as NOA says, you should be fine.

or just make it a rare occurance and stick to 2k+ like also mentioned.

and when you do sell one, offer a video like this

 

[LawJaw 50]

9 hours ago, justlooking said:

Honesty is the best policy. 

Some honesty.

then some CLEAR paperwork and a touch more honesty and as NOA says, you should be fine.

or just make it a rare occurance and stick to 2k+ like also mentioned.

and when you do sell one, offer a video like this

 

Love this video, this is a great way to explain known faults however it also proves the vehicle is unroadworthy. Therefore the video alone is not good enough, as ‘justlooking’ understands and states, the paperwork also must be CLEAR.

To expose/offer for sale or sell unroadworthy vehicles without taking certain steps to make the customer aware is illegal.

Unroadworthy means that the vehicle would not pass an MOT test.

So to have a vehicle on the forecourt presented for sale with an illegal tyre, or faulty light, with no additional information could lead you to a prosecution.

If you have the facilities on site, or a relationship with a local MOT station, then the minimum you should do, when intending to sell a vehicle as roadworthy, is to have a competent person check over the vehicle to ensure it is roadworthy prior to putting on the forecourt. One further step along the way you can take to ensure the cars are roadworthy is to actually have them MOT’d before they are put up for sale.  

Trading Standards Officers periodically do swoops on garage forecourts and check the stock. If any unroadworthy vehicles are up for sale, then you can be prosecuted.

You are permitted to expose/offer for sale or sell if you can prove that you have made the customer aware that the vehicle is unroadworthy, its use on the road would be unlawful, and that you are satisfied it will not be used on the road until repaired and MOT’d. 

If it is your intention to sell a vehicle as unroadworthy you should make the above information absolutely clear and prominent by way of a notice on the vehicle ...and also in the video, if you choose to make a video.

If the customer agrees to the purchase on those terms then the information should be repeated on the sales documents and the customer has the opportunity to read and sign to confirm their understanding.

As well as relaying to the customer that it is unroadworthy, and illegal to use it on the road, and that it should not be used until repaired and MOT’d, we would also suggest that the customer should sign to confirm they will transport it away from your premises.

Needless to say, you should not arrange for a test drive of an unroadworthy vehicle on the road and you should not supply the previous MOT certificate.

[It's me 615]

1 hour ago, LawJaw said:

Love this video, this is a great way to explain known faults however it also proves the vehicle is unroadworthy. Therefore the video alone is not good enough, as ‘justlooking’ understands and states, the paperwork also must be CLEAR.

 

To expose/offer for sale or sell unroadworthy vehicles without taking certain steps to make the customer aware is illegal.

Unroadworthy means that the vehicle would not pass an MOT test.

 

So to have a vehicle on the forecourt presented for sale with an illegal tyre, or faulty light, with no additional information could lead you to a prosecution.

 

If you have the facilities on site, or a relationship with a local MOT station, then the minimum you should do, when intending to sell a vehicle as roadworthy, is to have a competent person check over the vehicle to ensure it is roadworthy prior to putting on the forecourt. One further step along the way you can take to ensure the cars are roadworthy is to actually have them MOT’d before they are put up for sale.  

 

Trading Standards Officers periodically do swoops on garage forecourts and check the stock. If any unroadworthy vehicles are up for sale, then you can be prosecuted.

 

You are permitted to expose/offer for sale or sell if you can prove that you have made the customer aware that the vehicle is unroadworthy, its use on the road would be unlawful, and that you are satisfied it will not be used on the road until repaired and MOT’d. 

 

If it is your intention to sell a vehicle as unroadworthy you should make the above information absolutely clear and prominent by way of a notice on the vehicle ...and also in the video, if you choose to make a video.

 

If the customer agrees to the purchase on those terms then the information should be repeated on the sales documents and the customer has the opportunity to read and sign to confirm their understanding.

 

As well as relaying to the customer that it is unroadworthy, and illegal to use it on the road, and that it should not be used until repaired and MOT’d, we would also suggest that the customer should sign to confirm they will transport it away from your premises.

 

Needless to say, you should not arrange for a test drive of an unroadworthy vehicle on the road and you should not supply the previous MOT certificate.

 

excellent input Law Jaw you give your time and free legal help on this forum for everyone to see ,thank you 

[justlooking 48]

4 hours ago, LawJaw said:

Love this video, this is a great way to explain known faults however it also proves the vehicle is unroadworthy. Therefore the video alone is not good enough, as ‘justlooking’ understands and states, the paperwork also must be CLEAR.

 

To expose/offer for sale or sell unroadworthy vehicles without taking certain steps to make the customer aware is illegal.

Unroadworthy means that the vehicle would not pass an MOT test.

 

So to have a vehicle on the forecourt presented for sale with an illegal tyre, or faulty light, with no additional information could lead you to a prosecution.

 

If you have the facilities on site, or a relationship with a local MOT station, then the minimum you should do, when intending to sell a vehicle as roadworthy, is to have a competent person check over the vehicle to ensure it is roadworthy prior to putting on the forecourt. One further step along the way you can take to ensure the cars are roadworthy is to actually have them MOT’d before they are put up for sale.  

 

Trading Standards Officers periodically do swoops on garage forecourts and check the stock. If any unroadworthy vehicles are up for sale, then you can be prosecuted.

 

You are permitted to expose/offer for sale or sell if you can prove that you have made the customer aware that the vehicle is unroadworthy, its use on the road would be unlawful, and that you are satisfied it will not be used on the road until repaired and MOT’d. 

 

If it is your intention to sell a vehicle as unroadworthy you should make the above information absolutely clear and prominent by way of a notice on the vehicle ...and also in the video, if you choose to make a video.

 

If the customer agrees to the purchase on those terms then the information should be repeated on the sales documents and the customer has the opportunity to read and sign to confirm their understanding.

 

As well as relaying to the customer that it is unroadworthy, and illegal to use it on the road, and that it should not be used until repaired and MOT’d, we would also suggest that the customer should sign to confirm they will transport it away from your premises.

 

Needless to say, you should not arrange for a test drive of an unroadworthy vehicle on the road and you should not supply the previous MOT certificate.

 

Thank you. Belt and braces with a written form is what I shall do 

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

BCA grade 4 seems to me the MB

[justlooking 48]

1 hour ago, Blenheim Car Sales said:

BCA grade 4 seems to me the MB

Would’ve been a bidding war at Blackbushe 

[metcars 397]

Interesting because there are guys that only MOT when a deposit is taken?

[AAM90 22]

5 hours ago, met said:

Interesting because there are guys that only MOT when a deposit is taken?

As we do on some occasions.

However if the car has an existing MOT surely it is roadworthy

Or am I missing something?

[CRW 73]

An MOT certificate does not mean the car is roadworthy, it was only technically roadworthy at the point the MOT was issued. Saying that, I have sold plenty of cars which, when the handshake occurs, have a short MOT. My perspective is that it is up to me to make sure the car is roadworthy before the car leaves or any money changes hands. Therefore all my cars are MOT'd before they leave the premises. The deal I did yesterday was on a car with a lapsed MOT, just a 2014 car that had been hanging around, nothing sinister. Within a couple of hours, the MOT was done and everybody is happy. 

[metcars 397]

2 hours ago, AAM90 said:

As we do on some occasions.

However if the car has an existing MOT surely it is roadworthy

Or am I missing something?

Well it was roadworthy on the day it passed. Depends on how long ago that was? 

[metcars 397]

3 hours ago, CRW said:

An MOT certificate does not mean the car is roadworthy, it was only technically roadworthy at the point the MOT was issued. Saying that, I have sold plenty of cars which, when the handshake occurs, have a short MOT. My perspective is that it is up to me to make sure the car is roadworthy before the car leaves or any money changes hands. Therefore all my cars are MOT'd before they leave the premises. The deal I did yesterday was on a car with a lapsed MOT, just a 2014 car that had been hanging around, nothing sinister. Within a couple of hours, the MOT was done and everybody is happy. 

I agree with everything you've said, but its interesting that trading standards can 'spot check' for unroadworthy cars? 

[CRW 73]

19 hours ago, met said:

I agree with everything you've said, but its interesting that trading standards can 'spot check' for unroadworthy cars? 

That's true, I have often thought that could potentially happen if they wandered in to do a random check.  I am registered with Trading Standards on their "buy with confidence" scheme, so I would hope they would be reasonable if we had let one run out of MOT, although who knows! Every car I sell I collect in person, usually driving them between 200 and 300 miles so I get a good idea of how the car is. I know its not the same as a full strip down, or an inspection on a ramp, but then again you pick up things when driving that no MOT tester will notice.

[metcars 397]

1 hour ago, CRW said:

That's true, I have often thought that could potentially happen if they wandered in to do a random check.  I am registered with Trading Standards on their "buy with confidence" scheme, so I would hope they would be reasonable if we had let one run out of MOT, although who knows! Every car I sell I collect in person, usually driving them between 200 and 300 miles so I get a good idea of how the car is. I know its not the same as a full strip down, or an inspection on a ramp, but then again you pick up things when driving that no MOT tester will notice.

Again i agree with you. If trading standards are out in the war wagon looking for trouble i reckonf they'd put s 'lot' of effort into finding a car with an issue, to justify themselves if nothing else. You like to think your stock would pass muster, but i know an mot guy that would find fault with a brand new car! Lets hope the trading standards swat team dont fetch him along!

[It's me 615]

highly unlikely you will get a swat team of trading standards bogeymen  lanyards floating in the wind ,pencils sharpened ,if you haven't had a complaint from a customer as they dont have the funds

ive reported before they usually go to where complaints have been received seen it wit me own eyes

however they might have had their lunch and seeing as they are in the neighbourhood might just decide to kick some of your tyres

remember they can just as easily these days go to a doorstopper as a pitch on the main road

 

to summarise as lawjaw says only offer cars fully compliant with the law or describe as not fit for the road must be trailered,no ifs no buts,these guys who visit often come incognito

Edited June 30, 2019 by jason doyle motor sales
missed a bit

[BHM 994]

I think some of you overthink the job. Just deal straight & only sell to proper people then you won’t get comebacks.