Sale of Goods Act 2015...Changes who's heard the news?

[Econimotor 15]

HI Guys

Last week our local trading standards office put on a seminar regarding new SOGA 2015.

They stated to us the right to reject within 30 days falls upon the customer to prove that the fault was there at time of sale. To do this they must at their own expense obtain a written Motor Engineers report stating that the fault was there at point of sale.   WRITTEN!!!

After 30 days it is dealers responsability to prove the fault was not there at point of sale. And that we should pre empt this scenario by conducting a New Mot and a full PDI inspection prior to sale. They didnt say a service was needed but a service and stamped service booklet will certainly help to. If we do this then you can prove that fault was not there at point of sale. I am using 2 independants for MOT and 2 Independants for PDI. Work together to achieve this with someone in your area or do in house. I am using independants as then I have no conflict of interest.

Also any faults pointed out to customer and the customer knowingly accepts these faults they have no recourse.

Should we do these things then we would not be looked upon as a rogue trader. Many of you no doubt already do these or most of it.

Which then brings into the frame ROI. BUY RIGHT, DO RIGHT, SELL RIGHT,   Then we all will be getting a good ROI. Happy days.

Just one other point to make to pain in the butt customer under the new SOGA the party that lost any court case is lible for all court costs legal expenses of both parties.

This new act could actually benefit us its not all doom and gloom.

Jim

 

[James Bush 95]

I had my 1st customer quote the act today.......He bought a Megane around 3 weeks ago, today he rings saying one of his rear windows has packed up, not a problem I explain the warranty supplied will sort it all out just give them a call. He wasn't happy with this, wanted me to collect the car, leave a loan car, repair it and deliver it back to him and he lives 75 miles away. When I refused and explained this isn't the best way to sort it he quoted the act and told me I was lucky he wasn't rejecting it and demanding a full refund!!!

[Cornish Guy 45]

A problem with selling a used Megane is that one of the rear windows is likely to fail. When ever we see one as a possible part ex it usually has at least 1 failed!

[James Bush 95]

Just received some info that says deductions for usage can be made but only after 30 days.......

The "one shot" rule could lead to some interesting arguments.....sorry conversations with customers when an engine warning light comes on for, say an EGR valve then a month later for something unrelated......

On advice taken my cars are now MOT'd regardless of if it was only done a week ago, service (minimum of oil and filter change) again regardless of when it was last done, a more in-depth health check and a diagnostic scan printout to show no fault codes present.

[James Bush 95]

Yep Cornish Guy.....if you're lucky its just one. I have sourced a cheap fix for them though that actually works.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Renault-Megane-Scenic-electric-window-module-Motor-Regulator-Repair-/161339137975?fits=Car+Make%3ARenault%7CModel%3AMegane&hash=item25908fdfb7

Yep Cornish Guy.....if you're lucky its just one. I have sourced a cheap fix for them though that actually works.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-Renault-Megane-Scenic-electric-window-module-Motor-Regulator-Repair-/161339137975?fits=Car+Make%3ARenault%7CModel%3AMegane&hash=item25908fdfb7

[Phil H 124]

with regards to all Renault window regs and motors I do know that Renault did have in place a dealer contribution regardless of age for repairing these even if you're not the first owner or its out of warranty as they realize they're rubbish. Don't know if they're still doing it but worth a phone call just in case. They also had one for 2.0 dci engines with knackered injectors.

[James Bush 95]

Phil H, wasn't aware of that I may make a phone call on y next one. Although on experience of manufactures goodwill contributions I still don't think it will be cheaper than a £25 part and 1/2 hour labour to fit?

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

I'm guessing these newer rules will make the margins a bit smaller for the big used car dealers, and could in fact take down a small Indy on tight margins, a few gearbox or engine replacement refunds would see many I know out of business, yes it would be bad luck but it can happen , a colleague of mine was hit with a Range Rover turbo replacement and also a Ford Focus auto gearbox, both that he had to cover and it almost ended it

[Steve92 80]

We just had a customer take a 2013 Porsche Cayman on the last day of September living in central London. They called yesterday saying the brakes discs were all knackered and needed replacing because the car was squealing under braking and was embarrassing. 

He had taken the car to kwik fit who told him it needed 4 new discs. Mr kwik fit hung up on me when I asked questions, all I wanted to know was the thickness of a new disc so I could guesstimate the remaining disc life, I later found out new is 28.0 and these were by all accounts just under 27mm. Given the car had covered 25k there must me a good 20-30k left in them... So not knackered like Mr kwik fit quoted. Besides most Porsche brakes squeal at low speed given the type of pad it is and low speed town work isn't going to help. We had something similar with an evoque that was supposedly dangerous to drive and not fit for purpose. We took the car back and gave them a refund, however in 40 days it had covered 3000 miles .... So clearly it wasn't that dangerous.

[Rory RSC 596]

Who on earth takes a Cayman to Kwik fit?  

[SC Derby 259]

Why on earth did you take the car back and issue a refund?

[sparky 274]

I'm guessing these newer rules will make the margins a bit smaller for the big used car dealers, and could in fact take down a small Indy on tight margins, a few gearbox or engine replacement refunds would see many I know out of business, yes it would be bad luck but it can happen , a colleague of mine was hit with a Range Rover turbo replacement and also a Ford Focus auto gearbox, both that he had to cover and it almost ended it

I guess that's the chance you take when selling that kind of stuff. Risk and reward and all that......

[It's me 613]

I

Ive just had a really good thought,one of my bugbears is dealers who buy cars from wherever, throw a bucket of water over it, stick a for sale sign in it and let the customers come back with the faults after sale,

This legislation should really stop these people who are everywhere and to me this is more important than kerbside traders selling cars because i have no time for their customers anyway who think they are beating us,however a customer cannot distinguish between a flashy sales pitch and a bomb type site when it comes to buying cars,ive always said if repairs cannot be made in house, then really customers shouldn't be purchasing from these places unless the seller can tell the prospective purchaser where his cars go for repairs because lets be honest a lot of smaller traders would have dave up his council flat fix it with his range of hammers otherwise and to take it one step further unless you are a large chrome palace then selling or giving away 3rd party warranties is really a get out for the seller,this new legislation rally does bring a more level playing field.

Ive been updating my appraisal sheets this last few weeks and trying to cover every base ,i realise i cant but now get the customers to sign off the appraisal before i let them make a purchase as a classic example for rejection with no appraisal is a seized rear wiper missed at pos and customer says they needed one,silly but a good reason for rejection with a signed written report from your competitor because there wasnt even a half decent bit of rubber in the blade thus proving fault was present at pos

 

A lot of businesses are going to shut over this new rejection in 30 days because lets be honest cash flow is king and we dont all have enough of it

 

Has everybody listened to the links that umesh highlighted in the podcasts with lawgistics? They really should be bedtime reading for all of us,thanks again umesh

 

[Steve92 80]

Why on earth did you take the car back and issue a refund?

because they were on first names terms of the director of the finance company it was financed through, some of it wasn't worth the hassal.

[SC Derby 259]

Anyone had any stress from the new changes yet ?

[James Bush 95]

I did have a customer quote that "they'd buy the car because they now had 30 days to decide if they wanted it or not". I explained to Norman that I was no longer interested in selling him a car which he took great offence to!!

 

[SC Derby 259]

I did have a customer quote that "they'd buy the car because they now had 30 days to decide if they wanted it or not". I explained to Norman that I was no longer interested in selling him a car which he took great offence to!!

 

What a total tool !! Well handled I'd say.

[SC Derby 259]

Was just thinking about this again this morning and what some people have said about MOT's and not selling cars with advisories on them as this 'proves the fault is there at sale' - a viewpoint I can fully understand.

But surely this also proves that the customer has been made aware of this apparent fault/wear and tear prior to sale? Ie it's there in black and white, similar to a PDI that notes an issue or piece of wear and tear.

Really find this law rather vague.

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

That sort of vagueness could lead to trouble at a small claims court

[SC Derby 259]

That sort of vagueness could lead to trouble at a small claims court

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Rory RSC 596]

We always have a new MOT on every car. We have our own workshop and MOT externally. We spread the work between 3 local MOT stations. 
We always ensure a clean MOT and do any advisory jobs.
For the most part we do the work first then put the car into test and have a high pass rate. Changed this so that we now MOT and let the car fail we then do the failure jobs plus advisory jobs and keep a copy attached to the certificate. On a car that passes but for example has an advisory like front pads low or osr tyre low we then replace the offending item and the MOT centre checks over and stamps the test.

Combined with a mechanics PDI report and an external MOT I think it would be difficult for a customer to prove a fault was present at the time of sale.

Only one customer has mentioned the 30 day right to reject so far. A customer has had the back box fall off a Mondeo after driving almost 2000 miles in 3 weeks. I explained that the fault was not present at time of sale and he came round. The AA recovery guy that came out to him had told him about right to reject....not impressed as the AA cover was provided with the warranty we offer on the car!

[James Bush 95]

RS that's all we need AA advising and revving up customers with the smallest of faults

I try to sell all my cars with no advisories but sometimes the car doesn't warrant it, if I sold a £6000 60reg Alfa Mito and the tyres were at 3mm and advised on the MOT I'd change them but not on a £1500 Picasso I'd taken in px and was retailing on. I now highlight all advisories and also state them on the order form.

In my opinion an advisory on a MOT doesn't mean the car isn't of satisfactory quality and is fault free or it wouldn't have passed an MOT

Edited October 20, 2015 by James Bush

[Steve92 80]

Just thinking about this from a different prospective, let's say you mot, service, pdi, replace everything that you buy/sell the additional cost of that work is it greater than what it would potentially cost you if you had to refund the odd purchase. In reality how many cars are returned for a full refund ? The sales of goods act has always been present and although it's been tweaked some dealers still didn't meet there obligation under the old act. 

I know of 2 incidents at our place, one we gave them there money back and the other we refunded them then had to replace the clutch and dmf and then they purchased it back from us. 

 

I know from being involved in mail order at my last company just how difficult people can be they read the Internet and listen to the to and they suddenly think they know everything. I have helped more people when they were honest than people who go on the attack straight away, like someone who's dog chewed a product, he got a free replacement as he was nice compared to a customer who claimed there product didn't work but forgot to say they had dropped it in water.

[It's me 613]

i get customers to countersign both pdi and invoice to confirm everyone is happy at pos 

everything in writing is the way to a contented life ive found and never have a wedding with it

oh and i hate an advisory for 3mm on tyres