Come on guys, I did buy the magazine...

[Tony911 79]

[Mark101 536]

Just for balance, I netted a £561 loss last month on a CRV - I bet everyone believes that 

[EPV 631]

12 minutes ago, tradex said:

what, no mention of hundreds and thousands?

I do, they are off my 'list' now, funny how the light switch goes off seemingly overnight on some cars, also had this with Jazz...

Don’t say that, I’ve just got one in 

[Nick M.K. 574]

I just got a Jazz. 

Bought for £5700, will list it for £8K, will let you know how it goes. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

I always used to do well with CRV’s, but they just seem overpriced. 

[Manics 0]

Three pages of reply -got a small debate going anyway. Thank you!

 

Not looking to become an easy overnight millionaire (well...). I think I'm trying to take a realistic view. Even after typing out the post (which can be a therapeutic process in itself) I came to the conclusion that it likely is what it is. There are many variables on the buying side (as Stalker suggests) and selling side which must be controlled as with many businesses.

 

The other requesting margin feedback was that in the magazine guide, their example carries a FAT gross margin, let me tell you -and I suspected from this forum that it might not be sensible to build a plan in entirety based on that. I do appreciate margin data is sensitive.

 

Stalker: I did expect to get a few backs up. I've read the forum, not as long as you guys, but enough to recognise the etiquette. You said: " he’s ignorant to the fact that all of the profit in this job is in the buying.... not the selling" -wise words of course, and food for thought.  Thank you also.

 

My background is in sales, though box-shifting to retail (CE goods). I know a bit about commercials/contracts/P&L etc. The trade has caught my eye for some years, I'm in South Oxon, and frustratingly I've seen two pitches (within approx. 30 mile radius) come available, which were not motor trades pitches beforehand, mature into seemingly nice little businesses for somebody who got there before me, because they were brave enough to take the plunge and commit.

 

Yep -I reckon with rent at £2k, business rates at £500, 1 basic wage (no divi) and a few other bits (don't want to upset the editors of the guide) then fixed costs are approx. £4.5k per month, divided by 10 cars, and that's before COS.

 

Anyway, a bit of content and debate for the forum. Thanks again.

 

[trade vet 703]

31 minutes ago, Manics said:

Three pages of reply -got a small debate going anyway. Thank you!

 

Not looking to become an easy overnight millionaire (well...). I think I'm trying to take a realistic view. Even after typing out the post (which can be a therapeutic process in itself) I came to the conclusion that it likely is what it is. There are many variables on the buying side (as Stalker suggests) and selling side which must be controlled as with many businesses.

 

The other requesting margin feedback was that in the magazine guide, their example carries a FAT gross margin, let me tell you -and I suspected from this forum that it might not be sensible to build a plan in entirety based on that. I do appreciate margin data is sensitive.

 

Stalker: I did expect to get a few backs up. I've read the forum, not as long as you guys, but enough to recognise the etiquette. You said: " he’s ignorant to the fact that all of the profit in this job is in the buying.... not the selling" -wise words of course, and food for thought.  Thank you also.

 

My background is in sales, though box-shifting to retail (CE goods). I know a bit about commercials/contracts/P&L etc. The trade has caught my eye for some years, I'm in South Oxon, and frustratingly I've seen two pitches (within approx. 30 mile radius) come available, which were not motor trades pitches beforehand, mature into seemingly nice little businesses for somebody who got there before me, because they were brave enough to take the plunge and commit.

 

Yep -I reckon with rent at £2k, business rates at £500, 1 basic wage (no divi) and a few other bits (don't want to upset the editors of the guide) then fixed costs are approx. £4.5k per month, divided by 10 cars, and that's before COS.

 

Anyway, a bit of content and debate for the forum. Thanks again.

 

Hi Manic

I think you should have a go.You sound very sensible to me.You will get good advice on here most of the time.I would go to WOMA which must be fairly local for you and watch the stuff going through,make notes etc and when you have the confidence wait for a suitable location to turn up.As Stalker says,it is about the buying.

[NOACROSS 414]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I always used to do well with CRV’s, but they just seem overpriced. 

Same here.  Were one of my main-stays and couldn't get enough (particularly Auto Exec's). They seem priced wrong now, as in too high- plus I think they look a bit dated compared with a Sportage or Qashqai.

Happens to most things.  You've just gotta ride the wave until just before it breaks.

Once they become cheaper, they'll be good news again like a decent MK2 is now.

[Stalker 180]

3 hours ago, Manics said:

Stalker: I did expect to get a few backs up. I've read the forum, not as long as you guys, but enough to recognise the etiquette. You said: " he’s ignorant to the fact that all of the profit in this job is in the buying.... not the selling" -wise words of course, and food for thought.  Thank you also.

Your welcome, 

I was talking to a local trader friend the other week and he pretty much summed this job up, 

He was talking about getting “chinned” by everybody (“chinned” is a local word meaning getting punched)

So he goes to auction and gets “chinned” by everyone to just buy a car, then the auction “chins” him, he then jumps in the car and find out it’s got a fault not seen in the auction so he gets “chinned” again by his garage, then autotrader “chins” him, then eventually a customer turns up and try’s to “chin” him but he doesn’t let him .... however the customers part exchange car does get to “chin” him 

 

Then he goes home and his wife “chins” him for not bringing enough money home! 

 

As scottish Dave says, whatever you expect your overheads to be... double them and see if it will still work. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Stalker
Predictive I phone

[It's me 615]

2 minutes ago, Stalker said:

Your welcome, 

I was talking to a local trader friend the other week and he pretty much summed this job up, 

He was talking about getting “chinned” by everybody (“chinned” is a local word meaning getting punched)

So he goes to auction and gets “chinned” by everyone to just buy a car, then the auction “chins” him, he then jumps in the car and find out it’s got a fault not seen in the auction so he gets “chinned” again by his garage, then autotrader “chins” him, then eventually a customer turns up and try’s to “chin” him but he doesn’t let him .... however the customers part exchange car does get to “chin” him 

 

Then he goes home and his wife “chins” him for not bringing enough money home! 

 

As scottish Dave says, whatever you expect your overheads to be... double them and see if it will still work. 

or guy goes to auction a fellow traders trys to leg him into a lemon

he doesnt buy it but instead buys one from the rostrum and gets his leg lifted by fat harry the auctioneer

he drives it out and finds its got a leg out of bed

goes to the garage with it and finds it shut because his wife has legged it with the chief mechanic

he goes to pub and gets legless

moral of story?

open a charity shop and search the pockets of donated clothes for hidden wonga or look for hidden drawers in old chinese furniture for hidden gold

[trade vet 703]

14 hours ago, EPV said:

Ok mate, either read what I have written or let’s just call it a day. For a start i’ve actually said I never netted £4K. I said I can see how it’s possible. Not a work of fiction. I’ve also said what I paid and what I sold for. You don’t believe me or else you wouldn’t be “like a dog with a bone” as you put it. I’ve said enough, please yourself. 

I have to say I don’t know of anyone lately who has  netted £4K on an under £20k car.They will be better players than me and after over 50 years,I think I have a reasonable CV for this job.However,we often get something where you get a healthy margin and it then generates several good part ex’s and finance commission.It is then possible to net £4K.Also,finance commission these days is relatively crap compared to what it used to be because of  low interest rates for the last 10 years.

[Rory RSC 596]

20 hours ago, Nick M.K. said:

 

I want to see more threads here about wealth management and investments. Anyone going to the Geneva Motor Show next month and to visit their money?

Tempted to go to Geneva show have you been and do you reccomend it?

[EPV 631]

2 hours ago, trade vet said:

I have to say I don’t know of anyone lately who has  netted £4K on an under £20k car.They will be better players than me and after over 50 years,I think I have a reasonable CV for this job.However,we often get something where you get a healthy margin and it then generates several good part ex’s and finance commission.It is then possible to net £4K.Also,finance commission these days is relatively crap compared to what it used to be because of  low interest rates for the last 10 years.

Oh ok, it can’t ever happen then, the oracle has spoken. 

The internet tells me a man walked on the moon once but i’ve never known anyone who did it so it’s probably not true. 

You lads crack on, i’ve said enough and probably, too much here. Good luck. 

[Nick M.K. 574]

1 hour ago, Rory RSC said:

Tempted to go to Geneva show have you been and do you reccomend it?

Yes, I go every year, it's an easy day trip for me from Luton (£60ish return with Easyjet). If you have to go to one motorshow it's great. Small enough to see in a single day. 

It's at Palexpo right next to Geneva airport so the logistics are very easy, 10 mins walk. All supercar brands are represented including stuff like Pagani, Bugatti and all the Italian brands. BMW, Merc, Porsche and Audi always have huge stands with all the latest models and you have full access to the cars. So do McLaren. 

With the Italians access is an issue but early evenings when it gets quieter they will let you on the stand (all cars are unlocked and accessible) when you say that you are a UK dealer just there for the day. This year I'll be there on 12th March and possibly the 13th, going with my other half for two days. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

5 hours ago, Stalker said:

Your welcome, 

I was talking to a local trader friend the other week and he pretty much summed this job up, 

He was talking about getting “chinned” by everybody (“chinned” is a local word meaning getting punched)

So he goes to auction and gets “chinned” by everyone to just buy a car, then the auction “chins” him, he then jumps in the car and find out it’s got a fault not seen in the auction so he gets “chinned” again by his garage, then autotrader “chins” him, then eventually a customer turns up and try’s to “chin” him but he doesn’t let him .... however the customers part exchange car does get to “chin” him 

 

Then he goes home and his wife “chins” him for not bringing enough money home! 

 

As scottish Dave says, whatever you expect your overheads to be... double them and see if it will still work. 

LIKE

[Arfur Dealy 823]

3 hours ago, trade vet said:

I have to say I don’t know of anyone lately who has  netted £4K on an under £20k car.They will be better players than me and after over 50 years,I think I have a reasonable CV for this job.However,we often get something where you get a healthy margin and it then generates several good part ex’s and finance commission.It is then possible to net £4K.Also,finance commission these days is relatively crap compared to what it used to be because of  low interest rates for the last 10 years.

Even if hypothetically you buy a car for 10k and somehow managed to sell it for 15k you still aren't going to net anywhere near 4k physically in your pocket at the end of the year. My original point was focused on what cars under £15k will CAP a 4k mark up, please tell me because I don't know any..... Now, we all nick motors sometimes and get a a really good margin, but 4k even with a finance tip, once you paid out on everything, the VAT and tax and all the other shit we pay for you to actually personally NET 4k in your pocket just isn't believable one one deal..... Now, when I take a PX on a PX which I call "strings" you can earn considerably more than 4k.....

[Nick M.K. 574]

My point at the start of this thread was really simple. 

Aim for £4K rather than the £2K the OP used as an example. Buy for £1000 less, sell for £1000 more. 

It is not very hard, it is not rocket science and it certainly happens very often. 

Whether or not this £4K stays in your pocket in the end of the year is a whole different story and we’ve already been through the fixed and variable costs debate. 

It was GROSS profit margin between bought and sold not accouning for prep etc but also fully excludng warranty, finance, paint protection, Gap, admin or any other income. 

Buy for 8-9, sell for 12-13. This what I meant. Can be done, gets done by people every day. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

My point at the start of this thread was really simple. 

Aim for £4K rather than the £2K the OP used as an example. Buy for £1000 less, sell for £1000 more. 

It is not very hard, it is not rocket science and it certainly happens very often. 

Whether or not this £4K stays in your pocket in the end of the year is a whole different story and we’ve already been through the fixed and variable costs debate. 

It was GROSS profit margin between bought and sold not accouning for prep etc but also fully excludng warranty, finance, paint protection, Gap, admin or any other income. 

Buy for 8-9, sell for 12-13. This what I meant. Can be done, gets done by people every day. 

My biggest profit last year was the E55 AMG I nicked off ebay for 4k. I spent £800 on paint plus MOT and it owed me just under 5k. Sold it for £8900...  

Nick, I was talking NET profit, what you actually earn in your pocket, that's what pays the bills and feeds the kids. Gross is irrelevant, it might be flattering just like a high turnover but what counts is the profit at the end of the year..... Just saying...

[Nick M.K. 574]

If that is the case WHY do we keep talking about units sold each month in terms of how well we did. You said you sold five the other day. 

What did it mean money-wise? 

Just have an annual thread: How was your year where we all compare our official figures... 

Oh wait, that’s not a great indicator, especially if I re-invested rather than cash out.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 minute ago, Nick M.K. said:

If that is the case WHY do we keep talking about units sold each month in terms of how well we did. You said you sold five the other day. 

What did it mean money-wise? 

Just have an annual thread: How was your year where we all compare our official figures... 

Oh wait, that’s not a great indicator, especially if I re-invested rather than cash out.

We all know how much we actually earn at the end of the year, when you divvy it up by #s sold you then know your actual net income per unit. Doing 5 in one day was a new record for me  

[Nick M.K. 574]

But 5 at £4K gross sounds better than 5 at £2K gross. At least to me. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

7 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

We all know how much we actually earn at the end of the year, when you divvy it up by #s sold you then know your actual net income per unit. Doing 5 in one day was a new record for me  

Well, actually I'm mistaken, I have sold considerably more than 5 in a day via eBay no reserves years ago....  I'm referring specifically to selling cars "remotely" by video,  without entertaining time-wasters via my " 4 step buying process"  

[Nick M.K. 574]

I loved eBay no reserve. I used 10-12 accounts for shill bidding to ensure the cars didn’t sell for peanuts. 

They would close one or two and slow me down by a few minutes every month. 

Then it deteriorated and I only use the motors pro ads now.  

[Arfur Dealy 823]

16 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

I loved eBay no reserve. I used 10-12 accounts for shill bidding to ensure the cars didn’t sell for peanuts. 

They would close one or two and slow me down by a few minutes every month. 

Then it deteriorated and I only use the motors pro ads now.  

No !!! You naughty little shill bidder you.....

It was a very good earner for a few years. Hated the clientele though, illiterate, ignorant scummy people just wanting cheap

I’m truly glad I’m out of that market. My buyers nowadays are in a different league. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

16 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

No !!! You naughty little shill bidder you.....

It was a very good earner for a few years. Hated the clientele though, illiterate, ignorant scummy people just wanting cheap

I’m truly glad I’m out of that market. My buyers nowadays are in a different league. 

Quote talking about profits, my most memorable in the early noooghties was a W Plate 530d Sport. Bought at Bridgwater for 8k on a Friday, photographed in the car park in the afternoon, on eBay by 5pm for £11995 and sold within 20 mins to a local. Collected next day 10am from The auction car park..... if only these could be repeated.........