court Mediation service Help

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

She has done less than 1000 miles since purchase and the second terminal issue, I just  feel as reasonable as i am the  judge if it goes there will side with teenage girl, The  burdon of proof is for me to prove, I have no way of proving anything, 

 

She submitted a 50 page dossier to the court for all proofs of her out of  pocket expenses, This will cost her £350 win or loose she will not even pick up my costs if i were to win, How is that  fair ?? Encourages people with no morals to make fictitious claim against innocent parties

[NOACROSS 414]

I’m still struggling with this and why you feel so on the hook. 

What proof does she have of contacting you with the later issues after you initially returned it fixed?

You can claim costs but need to put them in before the case goes any further I think. 

To me and any reasonable person (hopefully and probably the judge included) will see you did the honourable thing and fixed it.  If it then had a different fault months down the line, and she didn’t contact you then that is unreasonable behaviour. 

The car is clearly worth less now (fixed) than it was when she bought it. 

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

The second time was just 3m into ownership........................  again another "car wont start" issue, this was when they wanted there money  back as they were saying its a repeat of the initial issue.......................... well apart from them both not starting who knows what it is thats wrong..................................they took it to VW MD who did a free visual check obviously inconclusive this was just 20 min of free check, it went to some  breaker friend of there who said it needed a new engine, I asked what he had done to the car to be  confident enough in knowing that and again he had  just "looked at it" and plugged it into a diagnostic system, I asked them to recover it to my garage and thats where we striped it down, Our original timing chain repair was intact and correctly timed, 7 hours of investigation latter we found the oil pump had failed and caused severe damage, So now we knew exactly the root cause of the failure but can not prove it was driven in this contrition, We tested dashboard lights and the oil light is working, we tested the oil pressure switch and again its working, So we believe that there was a flashing light and maybe a chime constantly going off as this car is driven, We believe she drove it 5-10 miles got home with all these lights and chimes going of switched it of and then and only then did it seize up and that`s when she reported next day "it wont start"

[NOACROSS 414]

So, three months later another fault. Still no right to reject.

Am I right in thinking you’ve had this car from that three month date (whenever that was)?

What did you say and do at that point in regards to communication with her? (This is where communication by email or letter is always good with a screamer.)

To me, I guess I would have been p’d off but would have begrudgingly put another engine in the junk or part refunded her if poss. 

[ik1980 11]

to the OP, get legal advice first, and if you have a chance take a good solicitor with you during mediation. I had to do mediation (separate issue with a builder) and my solicitor was invaluable. Get proper legal advice.

[Tony F 38]

4 hours ago, Blenheim Car Sales said:

she hits me with 9999 claim on a car she paid £5200

Mate, sound like u are going to need a bit of serious help with this one. It sound complicated. You may need to get an independent written assesment statement to prove she carried on driving the car ignoring any oil pressure lights, which is why the engine has now seized/stop/failed whatever.

Funny how her claim stops at £1 short of the 10k max allowed in a small claims. She obviously has someone helping her with this.

Good luck

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

i have Lawgistics as my legal council and i have had a mechanical engineer  strip the engine to find the exact cause of the  failure

[David Ayers 171]

6 hours ago, Blenheim Car Sales said:

So i have mediation, I know the format its likely to take the 2 parties talking through intermediary on a phone  but would be interested if anyone has any incite to share, I really could do with settling rather than going to court, I have 1 hour on Wednesday to get the matter resolved, 

Haven’t been through it but if you want to settle it just offer what you think you want to pay.

Buy it back at full sale price or current retail price. If you think that’s fair/ acceptable.

I imagine it is just a case of the mediator passing on your offer. So justify what you are offering.

I would guess it’s just basic haggling. You offer a price. She rejects. You offer more.

I don’t believe the Judge is informed of these negotiations if it goes to court.

[trade vet 702]

The way I see this ( I am probably wrong ) is that because you knew your customer was a ‘ minor’ at the time of the sale and you were awhere that she had held a licence for only a week,you had a greater duty of care to find a successfull remedy.A judge may expect to see proof where you made the effort to contact her parents or guardians to explain what happened after the second failure.( I would have wanted to know where a 17 year old got 5 grand in the first place)

I would be checking out the consequential damages claim which could be fabricated.Have they been calculated after deducting the usual Polo running costs,fuel,road tax,insurance ( for a 17 year old) ,parking charges,servicing and MOT,depreciation,etc.

Unfortunately I have to say that I think you were negligent in your dealings with a ‘ minor’...I would be trying to negotiate a reasonable settlement.......Lets hope I am wrong !

 

 

[Dave2302 387]

3 hours ago, Blenheim Car Sales said:

The second time was just 3m into ownership........................  again another "car wont start" issue, this was when they wanted there money  back as they were saying its a repeat of the initial issue.......................... well apart from them both not starting who knows what it is thats wrong..................................they took it to VW MD who did a free visual check obviously inconclusive this was just 20 min of free check, it went to some  breaker friend of there who said it needed a new engine, I asked what he had done to the car to be  confident enough in knowing that and again he had  just "looked at it" and plugged it into a diagnostic system, I asked them to recover it to my garage and thats where we striped it down, Our original timing chain repair was intact and correctly timed, 7 hours of investigation latter we found the oil pump had failed and caused severe damage, So now we knew exactly the root cause of the failure but can not prove it was driven in this contrition, We tested dashboard lights and the oil light is working, we tested the oil pressure switch and again its working, So we believe that there was a flashing light and maybe a chime constantly going off as this car is driven, We believe she drove it 5-10 miles got home with all these lights and chimes going of switched it of and then and only then did it seize up and that`s when she reported next day "it wont start"

IMHO it is possible that the first repair was not thorough enough, did you actually clean out the Oil Pump Strainer ? Is that why the pump seized ??

If she has only done 1000 miles in 3 months surely you should refund her, I would.

However, if she failed to contact you and then wants to rump you for all the extra exes then yeah, I feel your pain, I just don't understand how she didn't contact you or what has taken all that time, as you have had your own Garage strip it down a second time

[Arfur Dealy 823]

5 hours ago, boring dave said:

so if it was your daughter

got a £5200 loan

got the insurance on the drip

had to use public transport as the car fit for purpose wasnt

car blows up

you think she doesnt have a case

?

She does need evidence and be able to prove it. 

[have a word with the wife 299]

i class this as a "exaggerated claim " and strongly suggest you bring this to the judges attention.

mediation, https://www.smallclaimscourtgenie.co.uk/small-claims-mediation-service/ 

the above may help,

important note, what was discussed here cannot be brought up in court, i.e. the claimant CANNOT say, "well in mediation you offered £x, now your offering nothing..

this "exaggerated claim " [as in costs] could easily bring down the whole case, i would be closely scrutinising every receipt [copy] that is sent to you [as per directed by the courts] in case of fraud.

1 hour ago, Dave2302 said:

Our original timing chain repair was intact and correctly timed, 7 hours of investigation latter we found the oil pump had failed and caused severe damage, So now we knew exactly the root cause of the failure but can not prove it was driven in this contrition, We tested dashboard lights and the oil light is working, we tested the oil pressure switch and again its working,

if i am reading this correctly this is your defence, and i would say you don't have to prove it was driven in this condition, only have to make it clear to the judge [dont forget theyre not mechanically minded] for this to happen the vehicle has been driven with no oil, your checks [ oil light] proove this without doubt, put simple, and put clear, 17/18 year old with no mechanical sympathy, ask the claimant directly in court " did you check the oil level and where would you put the oil and what oil did you put in ?"

mediation is to save the courts time and money, i would make it clear to her in mediation,this is a exaggerated claim, which will be strongly defended,any paperwork receipts etc will be scrutinised very carefully and a counter claim may be submitted for any incorrect evidence submitted, and i would offer a "token" sum to stop the case, with the condition that ownership of the car is returned to you.

hth

 

3 hours ago, tradex said:

 

[It's me 615]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

?

She does need evidence and be able to prove it. 

she has evidence

car wont start

seller refused to go any further 

35 minutes ago, have a word with the wife said:

i class this as a "exaggerated claim " and strongly suggest you bring this to the judges attention.

mediation, https://www.smallclaimscourtgenie.co.uk/small-claims-mediation-service/ 

the above may help,

important note, what was discussed here cannot be brought up in court, i.e. the claimant CANNOT say, "well in mediation you offered £x, now your offering nothing..

this "exaggerated claim " [as in costs] could easily bring down the whole case, i would be closely scrutinising every receipt [copy] that is sent to you [as per directed by the courts] in case of fraud.

if i am reading this correctly this is your defence, and i would say you don't have to prove it was driven in this condition, only have to make it clear to the judge [dont forget theyre not mechanically minded] for this to happen the vehicle has been driven with no oil, your checks [ oil light] proove this without doubt, put simple, and put clear, 17/18 year old with no mechanical sympathy, ask the claimant directly in court " did you check the oil level and where would you put the oil and what oil did you put in ?"

mediation is to save the courts time and money, i would make it clear to her in mediation,this is a exaggerated claim, which will be strongly defended,any paperwork receipts etc will be scrutinised very carefully and a counter claim may be submitted for any incorrect evidence submitted, and i would offer a "token" sum to stop the case, with the condition that ownership of the car is returned to you.

hth

 

unfortunately the car has had one repair and it was fixed

the seller got customer to sign they were happy with the repair

the exact same fault reappeared and under the cra the car was rejected

seller refused to accept this so 50 pages of evidence have been provided with what i believe to be substantiated receipts whilst claimant had no transport

remember the seller sold a product that now has had the same fault twice sold to a young girl with no experience and looking to the seller to put her in a car to fulfil the obligations of being reliable and safe

i further note she has done only 1000 miles so i repeat if it was your daughter having shelled out over £5000 that broke twice and trader said customer fault i think any right minded person would say wo this aint right

ive only gone on evidence supplied remember just like a judge will

this is why i suggested earlier to offer full sum for car only at arbitration

arbitration is to try and keep the courts clear for wife beaters and child custody cases, motor trade is a pain for them

i would not have gone to court if it was me and evidence is correct

this car has a major fault

[Arfur Dealy 823]

I’m probably reading this wrong but surely. The responsibility falls on the buyer after 30 days to prove the fault was present at the point of sale, am I wrong? 

[David Ayers 171]

13 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I’m probably reading this wrong but surely. The responsibility falls on the buyer after 30 days to prove the fault was present at the point of sale, am I wrong? 

Yes you are.

Buyer has to prove fault was present at time of sale within the first 30 days for “short term right to reject” to apply

After that, and up to 6 months from purchase date, it’s up to the dealer to prove fault wasn’t present at time of sale.

[have a word with the wife 299]

1 hour ago, boring dave said:

she has evidence

car wont start

seller refused to go any further 

unfortunately the car has had one repair and it was fixed

the seller got customer to sign they were happy with the repair

the exact same fault reappeared and under the cra the car was rejected

seller refused to accept this so 50 pages of evidence have been provided with what i believe to be substantiated receipts whilst claimant had no transport

remember the seller sold a product that now has had the same fault twice sold to a young girl with no experience and looking to the seller to put her in a car to fulfil the obligations of being reliable and safe

i further note she has done only 1000 miles so i repeat if it was your daughter having shelled out over £5000 that broke twice and trader said customer fault i think any right minded person would say wo this aint right

ive only gone on evidence supplied remember just like a judge will

this is why i suggested earlier to offer full sum for car only at arbitration

arbitration is to try and keep the courts clear for wife beaters and child custody cases, motor trade is a pain for them

i would not have gone to court if it was me and evidence is correct

this car has a major fault

blenheim freely admits on page 1 he is willing to reimburse some of the cost, without the full details [claim] none of us can fully answer this case, i, and i would hope that others see this is a exaggerated claim, £9999? surely that is a clue? max allowed claim in small claims is £10000, somebody somewhere has suggested to go for his neck big time, the additional claim of £4800 is ridiculous, and i stick by my earlier post, make the "token" offer in mediation, and if its refused then a full strong meticulous defence is required on every aspect of the claim.

[ExCouncilJobsworth 27]

HOLD IT BOYS and girls

OP has had the car stripped... When was it stripped?

From what i have read the car has been off road for 2 years. So did OP take it and strip it AND its still with him? 

Either way £4800 expenses over 2 years is very fair. £100 a month on travel cards for trains and buses to college or uni. plus depreciation value of vehicle because she wanted to sell it a year later. Lets not forget insurance costs when the vehicle was off road and for a young driver you're looking at silly figures! Perhaps hotel stays where otherwise she would have drove back. Maybe she caught a taxi. 

Also whoever said she was a minor at 17. You're wrong.

Over 16s can buy mobile phones, cars and a range of other things. 

She could have £5000 savings from a young age or worked?

Questions that need answers:

Who has the car now and where is it?

Why wasn't it fixed? 

And you need a proper legal person that can represent you. Forget about logistics if they cannot provide someone to represent you! If you're willing to bloody pay her back spend another £500 and get a leagle beagle in!

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

Car was striped by my garage, The cause of the  none starting was identified and thats where our dispute started, There stance is it wont start its my fault and we are saying after striping it down its your fault for  running it with warning lights on and its negligence, Car was put back together and i told her its free to be collected, and thats what she did, 

 

Collected it and  no further contact was made by her, so much time passed i believed she had accepted what had happened and how it happened and accepted we were not to blame, Car will need  new engine and disks and tyres all around. Car has not moved in 2 yrs

[have a word with the wife 299]

8 hours ago, ExCouncilJobsworth said:

 

Either way £4800 expenses over 2 years is very fair. £100 a month on travel cards for trains and buses to college or uni. plus depreciation value of vehicle because she wanted to sell it a year later. Lets not forget insurance costs when the vehicle was off road and for a young driver you're looking at silly figures! Perhaps hotel stays where otherwise she would have drove back. Maybe she caught a taxi. 

Also whoever said she was a minor at 17. You're wrong.

Over 16s can buy mobile phones, cars and a range of other things. 

She could have £5000 savings from a young age or worked?

 

well i truly hope it doesnt happen to you then two years down the line after you sell a car !

i thought you had to be over 18 to sign a legal document ?

1 hour ago, tradex said:

Maybe spend a few quid and seek the advice of a solicitor, it need not cost that much.

PS:- Not wishing to sound salty but, threads such as this really should be in the private section, ANYONE and EVERYONE has access to this.

this is true but i am not in there 

 

sure we all wish you good luck today blenheim, keep cool, listen, and stick to your guns 

[trade vet 702]

Hi ECJ 

If you check the legal definition of a ‘minor’ in the UK ,I think I am right.

Hi Blenheim

Are you saying on the second occasion that when she collected the car from you,it had not been repaired, you had only examined it and reported your findings to her which was that she was negligent.Did you quote for the work in writing.

Sorry Blenheim,I do think CRA could be ‘ out the window ‘ in this case and the buyer being ‘a minor ‘ has every right to rescind or void the contract.  Good Luck.

[ExCouncilJobsworth 27]

TV i really dont see whether being a minor or not has anything to do with this.

The individual has legally made a purchase with her own free will and she was old enough to do so.  She wasn't forced into it by OP.

Because she's under 18 it doesn't mean she's entitled to a free fix. Had she bought the car from a private billy and the same happened or even a drive shaft snapped she'd go to a garage and they would inform her of the problem and costs. 

Garage wouldn't waive costs because she's a minor. 

And again because of age it doesn't mean she should stop communicating with OP 

If she can communicate on snapchat fb Twitter and all the other crap every 5 minutes she can reply to OP. 

Don't think judge will be punishing OP because missy didn't communicate and she's a little princess 

 

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

When we striped it down after the second time it "would not start" we were thinking of our own legal position here so we striped it down and reported our findings to our customer, In that we did not believe we were in any way at fault for her current position and it was negligence that had caused the current problem, Not going to Lie we did not quote her for repair once we had found the problem.

 

should i not have sold a  car then to someone 17 ??? its a  new one on me, I never gave it a thought, She was with sister and boyfriend at the time who each drove the car for her as experienced drivers  she never drove it and trusted there  judgement

[Stalker 180]

With the benefit of hindsight and others can probably learn from this case, it’s far easier to reach a middle ground before it goes legal. 

Looking after a customer is part of the job surely.

A judge would rule that the car was faulty for the second time within 6 months of purchase and therefore not fit for purpose? 

The driven to to destruction is a tricky one, if the car faulted in the outside lane of the motorway with no hard shoulder and must be drove to safety... what are the options? 

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

Exactly. I truly believe i have acted in good faith and done nothing wrong, I have had considerable cost to myself i have made a repair and then suffered costs in finding cause of second issue, Fact remains however ( looking from outside in) it looks like

rouge garage has sold a un roadworthy car to vulnerable young girl 

[ExCouncilJobsworth 27]

36 minutes ago, Stalker said:

 

The driven to to destruction is a tricky one, if the car faulted in the outside lane of the motorway with no hard shoulder and must be drove to safety... what are the options? 

I agree with this.

Thanks to stupid idiots that have removed the hard shoulder.

I broke down once on live lane 3 instantly lost power and missed the stupid layby points created on M1 by 5 metres

So i ended up using grass verge and got stuck. 

Pushing a van on your own from lane 1 into some grass isnt easy as you keep looking behind in fear of being hit!