vw polo 1.2 Refunding a customer

[justlooking 48]

11 hours ago, Selfy trader said:

You got it mate, like you said I don’t think he’ll take too kindly to a reduced refund, I’m certainly trying to avoid situations like this, however it’s an occupational hazard isn’t it, I sincerely thank you and everyone else for your solid advice, il do my best

 

many thanks indeed

Tom

It’s outside of the 30 days right to reject, he has no choice but to expect a refund less fair usage?

am I right?

[Nick M.K. 574]

34 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

waiting to hear back from the specialist regarding wether this is the same fault or completely different fault code that has thrown the EML on

This is actually not a bad position to be in. 

If it's the exact same fault that you paid them to fix ask them to please repair the vehicle "for our mutual customer" under the terms of their labour warranty. 

If it's a different fault: 

ask for a quote.

If cheap and easy pay it as Gesture of goodwill. 

If something big and new fault, not present at the point of sale send the letter in my early reply. 

 

[Selfy trader 1]

Just now, Nick M.K. said:

This is actually not a bad position to be in. 

If it's the exact same fault that you paid them to fix ask them to please repair the vehicle "for our mutual customer" under the terms of their labour warranty. 

If it's a different fault: 

ask for a quote.

If cheap and easy pay it as Gesture of goodwill. 

If something big and new fault, not present at the point of sale send the letter in my early reply. 

 

Think this is my route out of this, thanks Nick

[Nick M.K. 574]

3 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

Think this is my route out of this

It's either a route out or a route all the way IN 

[Selfy trader 1]

1 minute ago, Nick M.K. said:

It's either a route out or a route all the way IN 

 

1 minute ago, Nick M.K. said:

It's either a route out or a route all the way IN 

Balls deep or ball out the park 

[EPV 631]

7 minutes ago, justlooking said:

It’s outside of the 30 days right to reject, he has no choice but to expect a refund less fair usage?

am I right?

Yes but the only way I can see this being a refund is if OP cannot prove the fault is a new one not the same pre-existing one that first fired up a few days after sale. Under the CRA you have one go at fixing a fault and if you can't, the billy has further rights and can seek a replacement or refund. 

Seems unlikely it's the same fault but as Dave was alluding to, a yellow light is a yellow light to a judge, he may take a view that the car has a persistent fault that wasn't fixed from day one and as OP has had a couple of goes at it now, the billy has the right to a refund/replacement.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Hi Selfie, we can teach you how to be fair but not be taken advantage of. 

Hi Selfie, we can teach you how to be fair but not be taken advantage of. 

[Del Boy 76]

4 minutes ago, tradex said:

Ref 30 days rejection......on an old end of life banger like this a major mechanical defect would be engine falling out, not an EML that doesn't render the vehicle undriveable, would it not. 

Agreed. 

It would have to be catastrophic failure. 

On the other hand what justifies an end of life banger???

[EPV 631]

2 minutes ago, tradex said:

Ref 30 days rejection......on an old end of life banger like this a major mechanical defect would be engine falling out, not an EML that doesn't render the vehicle undriveable, would it not. 

Not sure this would count as an end of life banger but either way the EML could be for a misfire for all we know, which would count as a major mechanical issue I expect.

Anyway, it's not about the 30 day right to reject period, which has long since elapsed but I'm wondering if technically a judge could say "well it appeared after 3 days, it's now been on twice since you fixed it, it hasn't been fixed, so the punter has a right to refund/replacement" which is presumably why Dave was suggesting it's important to get proof it is a different fault, which I do agree with. If the fault is proved to be a different fault from the initial one, then there is only a repair available to the billy and even that may not be available if the fault is down to wear and tear, spark plugs for example.

Most of this is all going to be lost in conversation between OP and billy I expect but I think it helps everyone if we can all learn from each other.

[Selfy trader 1]

Just got off of the phone to the ‘customer’ demanded a full refund or legal action will be taken, he did ask for a refund after the first fault occurred, however I did excercise my right to repair, that’s where we stand with it apparently, isn’t the sort of person to give in either

[Stalker 180]

Selfy... I repeat, first port of call is to find out why the EML has returned.

 

To all guys using third party workshops, it is vital to take all details for faults and keep notes, especially trouble codes.

Manufacturers and warranty companies now want the far end of a fart before authorising any repairs, we should all do the exact same.

 

Selfy, it is your duty to defend his claim, there is a middle ground. Between what he wants and what you offer, so make sure your first offer nearly insults him.

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 minute ago, Selfy trader said:

Just got off of the phone to the ‘customer’ demanded a full refund or legal action will be taken, he did ask for a refund after the first fault occurred, however I did excercise my right to repair, that’s where we stand with it apparently, isn’t the sort of person to give in either

How many miles has it done ? 

[Selfy trader 1]

Just now, Arfur Dealy said:

How many miles has it done ? 

He won’t tell mehow many it has done since point of sale and said if I try to offer a partial refund he will go down the legal route

[Blenheim Car Sales 111]

Think whats key to this is what this EML light is showing as a fault, if its a different fault to the original then its not grounds to reject as there are many reasons why the EML could be on, If its same issue as before then you have less grounds, If it was me i would be wanting it back to inspect this fault, I keep diag machine for this very reason, Warning lights come on all cars for all reasons, It happen its part have having a  modern car with all them sensors

[Arfur Dealy 823]

So he’s refused to tell you the miles covered?

[Selfy trader 1]

Just now, Blenheim Car Sales said:

Think whats key to this is what this EML light is showing as a fault, if its a different fault to the original then its not grounds to reject as there are many reasons why the EML could be on, If its same issue as before then you have less grounds, If it was me i would be wanting it back to inspect this fault, I keep diag machine for this very reason, Warning lights come on all cars for all reasons, It happen its part have having a  modern car with all them sensors

Isn’t willing to allow me to investigate the issue further, and no won’t tell me current mileage

[EPV 631]

Just now, Selfy trader said:

He won’t tell mehow many it has done since point of sale and said if I try to offer a partial refund he will go down the legal route

Ok. 

Write to him stating that you are willing to offer a refund of the purchase price less a deduction of 45p per mile for the miles travelled since the sale. State you have drawn on the HMRC guidelines for the 45p per mile and used the CRA 2015 as your right to reduce the refund in line with usage. 

State if this isn’t acceptable to him you are prepared to diagnose the fault on the car and you MAY repair the fault based on the findings, however under the terms of the CRA 2015 you may not repair the fault if it is a result of wear and tear which is specifically excluded from the Act. 

Reiterate you are willing to help resolve this. 

He cannot refuse either of these options and imo you would be seen to be a reasonable person in the eyes of any sane judge should it go that way. Don’t enter into any further conversations after that and leave it and get on with your life. 

Saddle up, you may be in for a ride, equally he may accept your reasonable offers. 

[Stalker 180]

4 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

Isn’t willing to allow me to investigate the issue further, and no won’t tell me current mileage

Well then just turn around and bend over for him then!

 

Get the car back off him and do some digging. He may not be entitled to a repair or a refund.

At  this point you will have the car and will see the mileage. You are allowed to reduce refund value for usage.

[pmpants 14]

Make all correspondence by letter, email or if you have to text, has the car been mot'd in their ownership? If so check the mot history, will indicate the miles covered.

[Del Boy 76]

This is all classic of someone who has thought it through and has considered your every move. 

Don’t give in on this one mate. Don’t speak to him again till you have the full story. He knows you are young and vulnerable. He is gonna bully you until you do what he wants. 

[EPV 631]

4 minutes ago, Del Boy said:

This is all classic of someone who has thought it through and has considered your every move. 

Don’t give in on this one mate. Don’t speak to him again till you have the full story. He knows you are young and vulnerable. He is gonna bully you until you do what he wants. 

I think it’s a classic sign of someone who has bought a cheap old car (well his daughter has) and he thinks he’s entitled to certain things he is not entitled to. He’s not as clever as he thinks because by refusing to hand over the mileage and refusing a repair he’s painting himself as an unreasonable person and trying to bully the OP into his unlawful demands. 

Dont give this character any credit, he’s trying to be a hard man in front of his daughter and actually tripping himself up. 

[MattR 177]

Follow the advice on here re written letters. It is time to stop calling him NOW.Cease conversation unless it is written. Send him an email detailing your next move. And be aware that if he ever traces this forum you have been less than complimentary about him. Never do that in a public area....

[Arfur Dealy 823]

25 minutes ago, EPV said:

Ok. 

Write to him stating that you are willing to offer a refund of the purchase price less a deduction of 45p per mile for the miles travelled since the sale. State you have drawn on the HMRC guidelines for the 45p per mile and used the CRA 2015 as your right to reduce the refund in line with usage. 

State if this isn’t acceptable to him you are prepared to diagnose the fault on the car and you MAY repair the fault based on the findings, however under the terms of the CRA 2015 you may not repair the fault if it is a result of wear and tear which is specifically excluded from the Act. 

Reiterate you are willing to help resolve this. 

He cannot refuse either of these options and imo you would be seen to be a reasonable person in the eyes of any sane judge should it go that way. Don’t enter into any further conversations after that and leave it and get on with your life. 

Saddle up, you may be in for a ride, equally he may accept your reasonable offers. 

This is exactly right. Keep reasonable, let him dig his grave.. also, you need to state in the letter he has refused to tell you the mileage. 

[It's me 615]

to add

all correspondence to now be done via recorded signed for registered mail

with regards nothing to do with father,ignore this im afraid because father might say he lent the funds so it his his case,remember the log book shows recorded keeper not owner

(got the t shirt for this one too)

you now need to write everything down, times, everything               and wait for the lba

[It's me 615]

3 minutes ago, tradex said:

The owner would be on the receipt.....

no

this is the point

the money may have been gifted/lent etc

the judge will dismiss this if you use this as a defence

put it in obviously but only as a point