September......

[It's me 615]

29 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

8 sold with 10 in prep

wow you send your cars to pre school how many 'O' levels are you looking for 

[Mark101 536]

2 hours ago, EPV said:

Well you have the unit mate so, you win 

I moved in yesterday afternoon - will send you some pics once I get sorted.

That's the good news, bad news is bloody slow here, except for expensive (German) warranty claims.

[SC Derby 259]

Picked up this week but last week was dead as it seems it was for most 

[Area 51 33]

On 19/09/2018 at 2:54 PM, Mark101 said:

I moved in yesterday afternoon - will send you some pics once I get sorted.

That's the good news, bad news is bloody slow here, except for expensive (German) warranty claims.

Good luck with the new site, would have thought the extra PDI work done would help avoid warranty claims? any tips to help avoid ??

 

[EPV 631]

4 hours ago, Area 51 said:

Good luck with the new site, would have thought the extra PDI work done would help avoid warranty claims? any tips to help avoid ??

 

Don’t offer one!

[Arfur Dealy 823]

5 hours ago, EPV said:

Don’t offer one!

Your learning fast. 

[Del Boy 76]

3 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Your learning fast. 

what are you guys telling the customer when asked about warranty?

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Mr Customer a warranty on an old car isn't worth the paper its written on, its an insurance policy written to protect the (companies interest) from paying out. They exclude Wear n Tear, as does the CRA so when you are purchasing an old car Mr Customer you should be expecting wear n tear. What I do Mr Customer is make sure the car is completely mechanically sound, new MOT, service, independent inspection prior to it leaving me, however its your responsibility to take ownership for faults were occur afterwards. 

Along those lines usually.....

Oh, and don't expect "gold for the price of silver" I love that one  

[NOACROSS 414]

They just remind them of their obligations under the CRA2015 if asked.

We (have a site) still give a three or six month warranty with an option to extend, depending on the car.

To be fair- most customers don't ask about warranty anymore, but some do- so maybe not advertising or giving one is indeed the best way to do it.

I'm old school so I think it important to spell it out clearly how long the warranty is for an what it covers- and get them to sign to show they have been made aware. I also, rightly or wrongly think that this is more expected by punters if they're buying from a site.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

41 minutes ago, NOACROSS said:

They just remind them of their obligations under the CRA2015 if asked.

We (have a site) still give a three or six month warranty with an option to extend, depending on the car.

To be fair- most customers don't ask about warranty anymore, but some do- so maybe not advertising or giving one is indeed the best way to do it.

I'm old school so I think it important to spell it out clearly how long the warranty is for an what it covers- and get them to sign to show they have been made aware. I also, rightly or wrongly think that this is more expected by punters if they're buying from a site.

I agree totally

especially is you have a workshop

[Nick M.K. 574]

1 hour ago, Del Boy said:

what are you guys telling the customer when asked about warranty?

I tell them that all my retail cars come with a 3 month / 3000 miles limited warranty (30 days / 1000 miles on p/xs) which includes mainly the major mechanical components and that no used car warranty compares to a new car warranty as there simply isn't a manufacturer standing behind it. I give them a nice looking £5 booklet from Lawgistics which I promise you is worth every penny. Valid claims are very few and far between. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Nick M.K.

[Del Boy 76]

2 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

I tell them that al my cars come with a 3 month / 3000 miles limited warranty which includes mainly the major mechanical components and that no used car warranty compares to a new car warranty as there simply isn't a manufacturer standing behind it. I give them a nice looking £5 booklet from Lawgistics which I promise you is worth every penny. Valid claims are very few and far between. 

Are these booklets on ebay NIck? I know the pads are

[Mikey360 68]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Mr Customer a warranty on an old car isn't worth the paper its written on, its an insurance policy written to protect the (companies interest) from paying out. They exclude Wear n Tear, as does the CRA so when you are purchasing an old car Mr Customer you should be expecting wear n tear. What I do Mr Customer is make sure the car is completely mechanically sound, new MOT, service, independent inspection prior to it leaving me, however its your responsibility to take ownership for faults were occur afterwards. 

Along those lines usually.....

Oh, and don't expect "gold for the price of silver" I love that one  

I'd be very tempted to have this on a plaque!

[Nick M.K. 574]

5 minutes ago, Del Boy said:

Are these booklets on eBay Nick?

I don't know, I buy them directly from Lawgistics. 

[EPV 631]

1 hour ago, Nick M.K. said:

I tell them that all my retail cars come with a 3 month / 3000 miles limited warranty (30 days / 1000 miles on p/xs) which includes mainly the major mechanical components and that no used car warranty compares to a new car warranty as there simply isn't a manufacturer standing behind it. I give them a nice looking £5 booklet from Lawgistics which I promise you is worth every penny. Valid claims are very few and far between. 

This is what I used to do, then I realised that it actually made no sense because what is listed in that Lawgistics warranty, I'm not prepared to cover, as most of it when failing on my stock profile, is down to wear and tear.

 

[EPV 631]

2 hours ago, Del Boy said:

what are you guys telling the customer when asked about warranty?

Since I started pretty much telling customers exactly what Arfur has said, the following has happened, two sales and one possible non sale via an enquiry about warranties;

1. 2009 Toyota Avensis, Eastern European chap rang, waxing lyrical about the video I made and the description. Wants to see the car ASAP, very keen. He asked what warranty I offer, I told him more or less word for word what Arfur says plus I said I stand by by obligations under the CRA 2015, it's the law and I don't hide from it or try and wriggle out of my lawful responsibilities as a bona fide trader. His response? "See I think I will buy a car from you because you are an honest man" and he came out, loved it, bought it. Off he went.

2. 2010 Audi A3, the bloke didn't even mention a warranty, at the end of the handover, I said "now I don't offer a warranty but..." and said my party piece and he nodded and said that seems fine with me and off he went.

3. Woman rings about a 2012 31k Ford Focus. "Hi I've seen your Ford Focus, what warranty does it come with?" and she gets my schpeel and eventually says "I think I need to look at a few others" but not before informing me that Ford have told her she can have a lifetime warranty on one of their cars for £500 upfront and £30 per month. 

So, did the fact I don't offer a warranty cause me to lose a sale?

I highly, highly doubt it. The fact the first thing that came out of her mouth was "warranty" suggests shes the type that will worry herself to death over the slightest thing and clearly can't handle the fact she may have to take a car to a garage and face paying for repairs at some stage. She's I would say, the reason why 3rd party warranties exists and sell. Now had I still been offering my own in house warranty I can guarantee 2 weeks into ownership when a bulb goes or there's a small oil leak from somewhere she would be all over me demanding this that and the other. 

In all three cases so far I have benefited considerably from not offering a warranty. It's like AD has said in the past, it's really liberating to conduct your business this way. 

I have also ordered from Lawgistics, a job lot of little handbooks they sell, highlighting the salient points of the CRA. I hand these out at handover. I imagine some of you will be mortified at making a punter aware of their legal rights but it really helps get through to the punters heads that they are responsible for their own cars. I will help them in the case that if the day after sale their gearbox blows up! I'm not a dodgy rogue trader but I behave myself by the law, I don't hide behind anything. When you actually understand the CRA you start to realise it actually benefits US more than the punter, assuming you do your job properly which I do.

So, there we go. Three real life examples of mine in the past week.

[MOTORS 25]

56 minutes ago, EPV said:

This is what I used to do, then I realised that it actually made no sense because what is listed in that Lawgistics warranty, I'm not prepared to cover, as most of it when failing on my stock profile, is down to wear and tear.

 

But Lawgistics warranty specifically excludes "any claim arising as a result of gradual deterioration through wear and tear" as per their general exclusions. 

[EPV 631]

6 minutes ago, MOTORS said:

But Lawgistics warranty specifically excludes "any claim arising as a result of gradual deterioration through wear and tear" as per their general exclusions. 

Yes it does. Exactly my point. 

So why would I bother to give a customer something to warrant them against, well, nothing, and give them some sort of expectation and me the grief? 

Perhaps if I sold 3 year old £20k cars I would see things differently. But I don’t. I sell 10 year old 64k Miles or 8 year old 75k miles or 5 year old 127k Miles. EVERYTHING on the Lawgistics list, give or take, is subject to wear and tear. So it’s all excluded! Pointless for me and gives billy false expectations. I sell proper straight cars for good money. What happens in the months following that is the customers responsibility. Usually, nothing happens. 

[MOTORS 25]

20 minutes ago, EPV said:

Yes it does. Exactly my point. 

So why would I bother to give a customer something to warrant them against, well, nothing, and give them some sort of expectation and me the grief? 

Perhaps if I sold 3 year old £20k cars I would see things differently. But I don’t. I sell 10 year old 64k Miles or 8 year old 75k miles or 5 year old 127k Miles. EVERYTHING on the Lawgistics list, give or take, is subject to wear and tear. So it’s all excluded! Pointless for me and gives billy false expectations. I sell proper straight cars for good money. What happens in the months following that is the customers responsibility. Usually, nothing happens. 

I just let Lawgistics deal with the claim via the administered service. We too sell very straight cars with no faults and have very few claims. I find most people want or like a warranty.  Anything that helps to sell cars is a plus for me and I pay Lawgistics to take the flak.

[Nick M.K. 574]

1 hour ago, MOTORS said:

I find most people want or like a warranty.

Absolutely they do, none more so than the buyers of 10 year old 64k Miles or 8 year old 75k miles or 5 year old 127k Miles. 

£5 invested in a warranty goes a long way towards adding value to your product, your brand and your image. Almost as much value as the £2.50 for an HPI Check. The £5 you'd spend on a warranty booklet will also give you a great defence line against the "I've found cheaper elsewhere or privately" brigade...

Give the warranty. You won't regret it. I know Simons says (no pun intended) not to but part of your profit margin comes from them buying an expectation. Give them a nice professional shiny legal booklet to go with that. 

[EPV 631]

7 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

Absolutely they do, none more so than the buyers of 10 year old 64k Miles or 8 year old 75k miles or 5 year old 127k Miles. 

£5 invested in a warranty goes a long way towards adding value to your product, your brand and your image. Almost as much value as the £2.50 for an HPI Check. The £5 you'd spend on a warranty booklet will also give you a great defence line against the "I've found cheaper elsewhere or privately" brigade...

Give the warranty. You won't regret it. I know Simons says (no pun intended) not to but part of your profit margin comes from them buying an expectation. Give them a nice professional shiny legal booklet to go with that. 

It may be shiny Nick but it's worthless. You know that as well as I do.

Of course people love a warranty, why wouldn't they, you're offering to pay for their car repairs for a period of time, except for of course if it's not covered by wear and tear which is, incidentally, everything associated with a car. So you are in fact, offering to pay for nothing. 

Far better IMO for me to give them a shiny legal booklet that gives them their rights under the CRA and sets their expectations from the off, giving them confidence you will do right by them under the law but also that the maintenance of their car is their responsibility. I go into great detail about how I will be there for them when the law calls for it and that I am not someone who hides away and shirks. But I really can't see the point in duping people into believing they are getting something from me (all car repairs paid for) when I know they will be getting none of the sort.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

7 minutes ago, EPV said:

It may be shiny Nick but it's worthless. You know that as well as I do.

Of course people love a warranty, why wouldn't they, you're offering to pay for their car repairs for a period of time, except for of course if it's not covered by wear and tear which is, incidentally, everything associated with a car. So you are in fact, offering to pay for nothing. 

Far better IMO for me to give them a shiny legal booklet that gives them their rights under the CRA and sets their expectations from the off, giving them confidence you will do right by them under the law but also that the maintenance of their car is their responsibility. I go into great detail about how I will be there for them when the law calls for it and that I am not someone who hides away and shirks. But I really can't see the point in duping people into believing they are getting something from me (all car repairs paid for) when I know they will be getting none of the sort.

Absolutely 100%

[Nick M.K. 574]

13 minutes ago, EPV said:

but also that the maintenance of their car is their responsibility

I don't know why you and Simon keep repeating that mantra. We are not discussing a service-inclusive package here.

We are not talking about maintenance at all. We are talking about the sudden and unexpected failure of a (non wear and tear) part which is supposed to last the lifetime of a car. An alternator or starter motors being a nice example. 

When a customer pays you a "Retail price" profit margin they have this expectation that if a part like that failed for a short period of time after their purchase you will have some responsibility to take on some or all of the cost. 

That warranty very nicely defines AND limits the time frame for this, the miles covered, lists the covered parts, even sets a price limit for the claims and leaves you a record for all this. How do you see a value in a PDI but can't see the value in this? Why don't you trial it selectively on just a few of your vehicles?

[c_cars 56]

9 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

I don't know why you and Simon keep repeating that mantra. We are not discussing a service-inclusive package here.

We are not talking about maintenance at all. We are talking about the sudden and unexpected failure of a (non wear and tear) part which is supposed to last the lifetime of a car. An alternator or starter motors being a nice example. 

When a customer pays you a "Retail price" profit margin they have this expectation that if a part like that failed for a short period of time after their purchase you will have some responsibility to take on some or all of the cost. 

That warranty very nicely defines AND limits the time frame for this, the miles covered, lists the covered parts, even sets a price limit for the claims and leaves you a record for all this. How do you see a value in a PDI but can't see the value in this? Why don't you trial it selectively on just a few of your vehicles?

Plus 1, was trying to think how I was going to word it!

I can see both sides of the argument here though as I’ve worked both site and by appointment and each approach to warrantys work well enough for each individual setup.

[EPV 631]

17 minutes ago, Nick M.K. said:

I don't know why you and Simon keep repeating that mantra. We are not discussing a service-inclusive package here.

We are not talking about maintenance at all. We are talking about the sudden and unexpected failure of a (non wear and tear) part which is supposed to last the lifetime of a car. An alternator or starter motors being a nice example. 

When a customer pays you a "Retail price" profit margin they have this expectation that if a part like that failed for a short period of time after their purchase you will have some responsibility to take on some or all of the cost. 

That warranty very nicely defines AND limits the time frame for this, the miles covered, lists the covered parts, even sets a price limit for the claims and leaves you a record for all this. How do you see a value in a PDI but can't see the value in this? Why don't you trial it selectively on just a few of your vehicles?

I don't disagree with that, if a part like an alternator or starter motor failed a short period of time after they had been sold the car I would 100% contribute towards the cost. I don't dispute that at all.

 

10 minutes ago, twerp said:

Things like this in your adverts can't help - surely it inspires certain expectations? :

What's wrong with that? Should I instead put "you're on your own, sunshine"

Aftercare meaning "if you ring me with a failed starter motor 2 days after you have bought a car, I will sort it out for you"

It doesn't mean "2 months after you bought a car from me and driven it 2000 miles, I'll replace the clutch"

There's a whole load of grey area between those two statements as well!