Ebay Enquiries - Let 'em rip guys

[NOACROSS 414]

11 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

I’ve has one Eos, never again,.....,,,

Amen.  Dreadful.  Spent 1200 quid at VW and they couldn't stop it leaking...memories!

(The rest of Germany's offerings aren't too far behind IMO)

[BHM 994]

7 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Just off to collect a 308 CC (2010) Sport petrol 58K FSH - send them my way please 

I’d prefer it older & with more miles myself. I like a French cabby to sell but find the cheap shite the easiest to shift.

[have a word with the wife 299]

ebay enquires?genuine questions asked this week =

ring me i am very interested

keep it for me will be down saturday and ring friday to confirm [ tuesday]

it says sold in your advert, is it sold ?

i keep leaving you messages on your ebay so have had sent you this text, i need more pics of this car ! your customer service needs sorting !

 

[Mark101 536]

3 hours ago, BHM said:

I’d prefer it older & with more miles myself. I like a French cabby to sell but find the cheap shite the easiest to shift.

What about now?

Bought blind, drives A1 but both doors have chips and dinks, front N/S valance has a scuff and O/S rear quarter been painted in the past - average Joe on the street wouldn't notice but I used to paint cars and it isn't the best.

Thinking of moving on as is rather than spending the 500 notes to make mint, what do you reckon - fix up and sell or as is?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123072983569?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

[Mark101 536]

1 minute ago, twerp said:

What did you pay for that ? 

£1600 ?

I would buy two for that

[EPV 631]

20 minutes ago, Mark101 said:

What about now?

Bought blind, drives A1 but both doors have chips and dinks, front N/S valance has a scuff and O/S rear quarter been painted in the past - average Joe on the street wouldn't notice but I used to paint cars and it isn't the best.

Thinking of moving on as is rather than spending the 500 notes to make mint, what do you reckon - fix up and sell or as is?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/123072983569?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

You will struggle to get £3295 for that i’d say, trade money is around £2,300 so I cant see you getting a grand above that selling it as a trade sale. 

[Mark101 536]

Just now, EPV said:

You will struggle to get £3295 for that i’d say, trade money is around £2,300 so I cant see you getting a grand above that selling it as a trade sale. 

Watch this space - it isn't as bad as I'm making out to be fair and a grand behind retail.

Drives mint, so if it doesn't sell might use it as my smoke

[EPV 631]

6 minutes ago, Mark101 said:

Watch this space - it isn't as bad as I'm making out to be fair and a grand behind retail.

Drives mint, so if it doesn't sell might use it as my smoke

A grand behind retail but your market is traders and it needs a bit of prep to command full retail money? 

Cant see it myself mate, I think if you advertise it to traders only it’s trade money, if you want private money then you have to accept the consequences (potential costs and headaches) that comes with retailing it. 

Unless of course you’re planning to sell it to joe public under a trade sale in which case you’re playing with fire in my humble opinion but it’s your neck! 

[Mark101 536]

1 minute ago, EPV said:

A grand behind retail but your market is traders and it needs a bit of prep to command full retail money? 

Cant see it myself mate, I think if you advertise it to traders only it’s trade money, if you want private money then you have to accept the consequences (potential costs and headaches) that comes with retailing it. 

Unless of course you’re planning to sell it to joe public under a trade sale in which case you’re playing with fire in my humble opinion but it’s your neck! 

Copy of the ad - a legally approved document to sign and an 18.5" neck - should be ok

[EPV 631]

10 minutes ago, Mark101 said:

Copy of the ad - a legally approved document to sign and an 18.5" neck - should be ok

You’re not the first to try and dodge their responsibities under the CRA, I doubt you’ll be the last but you’re asking for trouble in my opinion! 

[Stephen 21]

If it needs 500 paint prep then the vat mans bit and advertising fees etc there’s not much left for a trader? Just my penneth worth

but I’m defiantly still learning and new

Looks nice got to be worth retailing 

[SC Derby 259]

Doenst matter what you put on the receipt / invoice you cannot legally get a consumer to sign away their rights and I think trying to is an offence. 

So definitely be careful here. 

[Mark101 536]

13 minutes ago, Stephen said:

If it needs 500 paint prep then the vat mans bit and advertising fees etc there’s not much left for a trader? Just my penneth worth

but I’m defiantly still learning and new

Looks nice got to be worth retailing 

10 minutes ago, SC Derby said:

Doenst matter what you put on the receipt / invoice you cannot legally get a consumer to sign away their rights and I think trying to is an offence. 

So definitely be careful here. 

It isn't too bad and I am tempted.

BCA Online (not Assured)

Raining cats n dogs when I collected and I was so delighted at how well it drove.  Got back, stopped raining, closer inspection and saw the dinks - I can fix them but I'm trying to reduce my stocking times and it'll waste another week either doing it myself or farming the work out.

I'm going to sleep on it 

[EPV 631]

Just now, Stephen said:

If it needs 500 paint prep then the vat mans bit and advertising fees etc there’s not much left for a trader? Just my penneth worth

but I’m defiantly still learning and new

A trader won’t turn up to buy that. Not a proper one anyway for reasons you mentioned. I suspect Mark is playing a dangerous game of trying to take a consumers rights away by getting them to sign a piece of paper and hoping trading standards accept he’s acted correctly. I could be wrong but that’s the vibe i’m getting. 

A few things would count against Mark in this instance, should the buyer turn screamer and call trading standards  

1. He’s advertising the car via a classified on a platform that is clearly consumer based. It’s not a trade to trade site. 

2. The description in the advert states the car drives without fault and it’s only cosmetic issues. This would be seen as misleading, or that you are suggesting the car is mechanically sound. 

3. To ensure your arse is covered you should get proof that the person who turns up to buy the car is a trader. Copy of trade insurance would do. The onus is on you to prove they are a trader not the other way around. This will be impossible as we know, the person turning up to buy the car won’t be a trader but joe public wanting a trade price car but without the trade risk. 

Trading standards would look at all these things and see a bona fide trader selling a car on a public platform, for private money and attempting to use a little bit of clever wording to evade their responsibilities under the CRA. 

I can see why some people would go down this route with a £500 banger. You just make sure you’re selling to the right kind of person, that you are sure they know the score. Don’t ask them to sign anything, cash deal, see the car for what it is, a shitter etc. Even that is a risk but a small one. 

I think this is playing with fire, for little return in the grand scheme of things. 

I’ve been doing this only 4 months so I don’t want to sound like a condescending know it all but from what i’ve read on here, on Lawgistics website etc stuff like this can fuck you right up and is nowhere near worth the grief. 

Each to their own. 

[Mark101 536]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that James (EPV).  I was planning for a proper trade sale, i.e. proof of trading and whilst I know that any serious dealer isn't going to bite, there are plenty of small non-VAT registered independent traders whom perform their own rework and for a hundred pounds of materials will have this looking shipshape, leaving a very decent margin for someone with much lower overheads than the majority of us.

In my limited drive of 20 miles, the car didn't overheat, selected all gears perfectly, started on the button, there's no contamination in the oil, service history is all present and stamped has one former keeper and respectable mileage.  It was a London City Centre car for the last 4 years, which explains the minor dinks and the rear quarter is extremely passable, many wouldn't even notice.

I shall take a proper assessment in the morning.

Incidentally, Ebay covers trade and consumer sales - surely, if the description is accurate and clearly has this Buyer Beware format no one in their right mind could argue I have misrepresented anything here.  Maybe I'm wrong and I do apprecaite your concern and I have listened to what you are saying.

PS: you don't need to keep saying you've only been doing this for 4 months, your input is valuable as far as I'm concerned.

We are a group of people all (hopefully) looking out for one another and offering advice, which is the very reason I joined this site.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Mark101
typo

[NoMargin 11]

6 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Copy of the ad - a legally approved document to sign and an 18.5" neck - should be ok

Copy of the ad, lawgistics trade invoice, proof of ID and copy of trade insurance.  Make it clear in ad you need trade insurance to buy the car. 

Its perfectly legal, your genuine and your doing nothing wrong. Don't know what all this scare mongering is about. 

[EPV 631]

2 hours ago, NoMargin said:

Copy of the ad, lawgistics trade invoice, proof of ID and copy of trade insurance.  Make it clear in ad you need trade insurance to buy the car. 

Its perfectly legal, your genuine and your doing nothing wrong. Don't know what all this scare mongering is about. 

It’s not scaremongering. The advert doesn’t say trade insurance require to buy the car. It says you will need to sign a piece of paper saying you’re in the motor trade. The advert also says things like  “cheap car for the summer” which wouldn’t help Mark’s case if a buyer became a screamer  

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Mark, it’s pointless trying to sell it “Trade Only” Because the trade wouldn’t pay anywhere near that price. You are asking for trouble legally, imo it’s the wrong route to sale. You are emphasising all the negatives about the car, sell it on a positive note with a few blemishes priced according....

[EPV 631]

7 hours ago, Mark101 said:

Thanks for taking the time to write all that James (EPV).  I was planning for a proper trade sale, i.e. proof of trading 

Ok well fair enough then, it’s just your earlier comments (and your advert) didn’t refer to obtaining proof of trading, just that you were going to get the buyer to sign a piece of legally worded paper and keep a copy of the advert. 

A hundred quid for materials yes but what about advertising costs, transport costs, fresh MOT, small service etc and all the other overheads like trade insurance, plates, website, warranty (or money kept aside for repairs) which could add up to another £300. You’re basically inviting  a part time trader who has to be handy with touch ins and basic mechanics to earn £600 and that’s assuming someone is willing to pay £4,295 from a part time trader.

So this comes back to the point I made in the first place that at £3,295 I can’t see anyone in the trade going for it. You’re appealing to a very small band of people, I.e. a part time trader who is handy with touch ins and able to do a basic service. And fairly local to you. 

6 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Mark, it’s pointless trying to sell it “Trade Only” Because the trade wouldn’t pay anywhere near that price. You are asking for trouble legally, imo it’s the wrong route to sale. You are emphasising all the negatives about the car, sell it on a positive note with a few blemishes priced according....

Is correct answer. 

Instead of “the reason it’s a trade sale” put “the reason the car is priced so reasonably is there are a few light cosmetic marks around the car. The car drives really well and would be a perfect companion for the summer” or something like that. 

[BHM 994]

I was nearly sick when I saw the price for a trade sale 

As for all this whining about trade sales then I can’t see what the objections are. If anyone on here wants to engineer out all risk then you may as well pack in today because the act of retailing exposes the retailer to risk. 

We all know about the possibilities of trouble but every sale has the potential for this. As always the knack is to deal with the right person (hopefully) and either get the paperwork correct OR simply take their money, throw them the documents, remind them CLEARLY not to bother coming back & then bid them a good day. I know which one works best despite all of the expertise spouted from various legal consultancies.

[EPV 631]

21 minutes ago, BHM said:

I was nearly sick when I saw the price for a trade sale 

As for all this whining about trade sales then I can’t see what the objections are. If anyone on here wants to engineer out all risk then you may as well pack in today because the act of retailing exposes the retailer to risk. 

We all know about the possibilities of trouble but every sale has the potential for this. As always the knack is to deal with the right person (hopefully) and either get the paperwork correct OR simply take their money, throw them the documents, remind them CLEARLY not to bother coming back & then bid them a good day. I know which one works best despite all of the expertise spouted from various legal consultancies.

Engineer out all risk no. Engineer out all risk from people who could theoretically damage your business irreparably? I’d say that’s quite important to take as much action as you can to protect yourself personally. 

[Rory RSC 596]

2 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Mark, it’s pointless trying to sell it “Trade Only” Because the trade wouldn’t pay anywhere near that price. You are asking for trouble legally, imo it’s the wrong route to sale. You are emphasising all the negatives about the car, sell it on a positive note with a few blemishes priced according....

Agree.

Plus you never know it might be raining when someone comes to see it  

[Mark101 536]

54 minutes ago, EPV said:

Engineer out all risk no. Engineer out all risk from people who could theoretically damage your business irreparably? I’d say that’s quite important to take as much action as you can to protect yourself personally. 

Engineer out all risk?  Impossible in this trade.

If you engineer all the risk out, you will never be leaving your full time job because that would be at the risk of losing a guaranteed salary.

I am not having anyone over here whatsoever.  I am not a plastic trader selling as a private seller, I am not hiding any faults and am not offering something that isn't real, in fact I am probably the one the most honest and genuine people whom can say catagorically that I have never had anyone over.

That advert, my legally approved side letter which will be signed and I am confident I will be ok - will I win in court (who knows) but what will they be claiming against me for that isn't clearly documented?  In fact, if they tell me and sign to say they are in the trade, could I counter-sue for fraud?

Will I lose my case (possibly) will it "damage my business irreparably?" Wow, really - I doubt that.

[EPV 631]

5 minutes ago, Mark101 said:

Engineer out all risk?  Impossible in this trade.

If you engineer all the risk out, you will never be leaving your full time job because that would be at the risk of losing a guaranteed salary.

I am not having anyone over here whatsoever.  I am not a plastic trader selling as a private seller, I am not hiding any faults and am not offering something that isn't real, in fact I am probably the one the most honest and genuine people whom can say catagorically that I have never had anyone over.

That advert, my legally approved side letter which will be signed and I am confident I will be ok - will I win in court (who knows) but what will they be claiming against me for that isn't clearly documented?  In fact, if they tell me and sign to say they are in the trade, could I counter-sue for fraud?

Will I lose my case (possibly) will it "damage my business irreparably?" Wow, really - I doubt that.

It doesn’t matter that you are honest, not having anyone over, not hiding faults etc that’s not what i’m saying. 

I am saying that if trading standards read your advert and you are pinning your hopes on a cleverly worded piece of paper as your defence then you are not mitigating as much risk as possible. 

Will you get a screamer? Probably not. Will you end up in court? Very unlikely. Will you have an unwelcome visit from trading standards? I doubt it. 

But I didn’t think the point of this forum was to discuss bad practices as though it was all fine and dandy. There’s a newbie on this thread, he may read this thread and think “well if xyz is doing it and he’s an established dealer it must be alright”

I’ve pointed out a few reasons why I think it’s a dangerous game to play. These are reasons garnered from months of reading the experiences and opinions of some of the established dealers on here, Lawgistics opinions and common sense of how trading standards view dealers trying to circumnavigation the CRA. Maybe irreparably was an exaggeration but if you’re happy to take the risk of an unwelcome knock on the door for an extra grand, as I said earlier, each to their own. 

If I was a brand newbie i’d want to know the real risks and possible reward and make a decision for myself. Not be given the impression that a poorly worded advert and a cleverly worded piece of paper means I can sell trade only deals to consumers and not have any comebacks. 

[Mark101 536]

15 minutes ago, EPV said:

These are reasons garnered from months of reading the experiences and opinions of some of the established dealers on here, Lawgistics opinions and common sense of how trading standards view dealers trying to circumnavigation the CRA. 

Reading books and articles is one only one part of creating and developing a business, much more is gained through the doing.  My moral compass is spot on and anyone who has ever dealt with me will vouch for that (in this and any former role). Anyone who views this car will have every impefection pointed out, noted on documentation and signed for by both parties, can't make it any more square than that.

Lawgistics - some great advice, good articles but they are not the be all and end all - my lawyer is an ex motor dealer franchisee, I haven't used Lawgistics personally.

Again, I do not condone any bad practice, I do not believe in pulling the wool over anyone's eyes;  I am merely selling a car, clearly and accurately described with all its faults - how many dealers would do that? In fact, I know of many whom would retail this car - 10 mins with a navy blue sharpie and I could enhance the look of this car to the point no one would be the wiser until after a couple of car washes.  Which would I prefer, open and honest up front or a blatant cover up?

I will be taking some pictures later of the affected areas and you will probably wonder what all the fuss is about.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Mark101