Complaint LAMBDA sensor failure

[grant8064 219]

20 minutes ago, Dealer said:

as they were 3 hours away we swallowed it but I've a sneaky suspicion that he knew a garage owner where he was from who made up a bill and no doubt they split the money between them when I coughed up. Will never fully get rid of these types I'm afraid. 

Agreed. Call me a cynical old bastard but this is always my first thought.

We come pretty close to refusing to sell cars to people over an hours travel away these days. It's always the distance sales that cause grief IMO and aren't worth the hassle anymore. Bad customers because they're either buying purely on price, your vehicle being the cheapest, and therefore can't actually afford to run and maintain it and will be seeking any kind of claim to save a few quid. Or the car is a rare bit and they're travelling because they have high standards and want the best one on the market which is all well and good until they get a bit of buyers remorse two weeks later realising it hasn't changed their sex life, their mates aren't actually that impressed and they suddenly realise it's just an eight year old lump of metal so they start trying to pick fault.

Apologies guys...i'm not loving punters lately.

[justlooking 48]

1 hour ago, grant8064 said:

I assume you've checked the garage isn't owned by someone with the same surname as him and received a fixed quote already right?

Surprised he's being so compliant but maybe i'm being overly suspicious. 

Just done £900 in fixes on a 5k Audi and they still complain because the rubber door seal has some signs of wear...funny that on a 8 year old 90k car. Sometimes I hate people.

when it gets as petty as that I just tell them to give me the car back minus an amount for valet, fair use based on time and mileage they've had it, can't be arsed with the hassle

[Ocsltd 133]

9 minutes ago, grant8064 said:

Agreed. Call me a cynical old bastard but this is always my first thought.

We come pretty close to refusing to sell cars to people over an hours travel away these days. It's always the distance sales that cause grief IMO and aren't worth the hassle anymore. Bad customers because they're either buying purely on price, your vehicle being the cheapest, and therefore can't actually afford to run and maintain it and will be seeking any kind of claim to save a few quid. Or the car is a rare bit and they're travelling because they have high standards and want the best one on the market which is all well and good until they get a bit of buyers remorse two weeks later realising it hasn't changed their sex life, their mates aren't actually that impressed and they suddenly realise it's just an eight year old lump of metal so they start trying to pick fault.

Apologies guys...i'm not loving punters lately.

Spot. On. Did genuinely make me laugh that!! "...it hasn't changed their sex life...." Brilliant!! 

[BHM 994]

29 minutes ago, grant8064 said:

Agreed. Call me a cynical old bastard but this is always my first thought.

We come pretty close to refusing to sell cars to people over an hours travel away these days. It's always the distance sales that cause grief IMO and aren't worth the hassle anymore. Bad customers because they're either buying purely on price, your vehicle being the cheapest, and therefore can't actually afford to run and maintain it and will be seeking any kind of claim to save a few quid. Or the car is a rare bit and they're travelling because they have high standards and want the best one on the market which is all well and good until they get a bit of buyers remorse two weeks later realising it hasn't changed their sex life, their mates aren't actually that impressed and they suddenly realise it's just an eight year old lump of metal so they start trying to pick fault.

Apologies guys...i'm not loving punters lately.

Haha, funnily enough it’s not distance sales that I get the occasional bother from - it’s local chancers who think they’ll ‘pop in’ with a complaint usually asking for a few quid at the same time. I’d take punters three hours away every day of the week over locals.

I like the easy life so everything is driven a minimum of 40 miles by me prior to advertising. It’s not foolproof and obviously faults can occur anytime but I only get a few comebacks per year and actually put my hand in my pocket only once, or perhaps twice per year.

PS ARFUR, get used to comebacks, now you’re flogging your wares from a unit punters expect more for some strange reason. It goes with the territory I’m afraid.

[andymc1973 199]

The issue with these old luxury cars is they’re buying at the bottom end of the market, jag buyers are usually the same

[Arfur Dealy 823]

27 minutes ago, grant8064 said:

Agreed. Call me a cynical old bastard but this is always my first thought.

We come pretty close to refusing to sell cars to people over an hours travel away these days. It's always the distance sales that cause grief IMO and aren't worth the hassle anymore. Bad customers because they're either buying purely on price, your vehicle being the cheapest, and therefore can't actually afford to run and maintain it and will be seeking any kind of claim to save a few quid. Or the car is a rare bit and they're travelling because they have high standards and want the best one on the market which is all well and good until they get a bit of buyers remorse two weeks later realising it hasn't changed their sex life, their mates aren't actually that impressed and they suddenly realise it's just an eight year old lump of metal so they start trying to pick fault.

Apologies guys...i'm not loving punters lately.

Grant, my buyers come from all over the country. Buyers have a responsibility to check the car thoroughly and ensure the car is accurately described prior to paying the balance.

[BHM 994]

Andy, I think you’re looking for the phrase CHAMPAGNE TASTE, LEMONADE MONEY!!

I’m not sure what luxury car you’re referring too in Jaguar’s back catalogue. Surely not a tarted-up old Mondeo or crusty cilled S-Types 

[Dealer 54]

Great thread, it rings so many bells its given me a migraine! 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

20 minutes ago, BHM said:

Haha, funnily enough it’s not distance sales that I get the occasional bother from - it’s local chancers who think they’ll ‘pop in’ with a complaint usually asking for a few quid at the same time. I’d take punters three hours away every day of the week over locals.

I like the easy life so everything is driven a minimum of 40 miles by me prior to advertising. It’s not foolproof and obviously faults can occur anytime but I only get a few comebacks per year and actually put my hand in my pocket only once, or perhaps twice per year.

PS ARFUR, get used to comebacks, now you’re flogging your wares from a unit punters expect more for some strange reason. It goes with the territory I’m afraid.

Lets be clear, all my cars are sold on assumption prior to viewing online, they are initially distance sales. The customer only pays the balance on confirmation of accuracy, they have to check and confirm it is as described. They are obliged to do due diligence, this is explained fully to every buyer. 

[grant8064 219]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

Lets be clear, all my cars are sold on assumption prior to viewing online, they are initially distance sales. The customer only pays the balance on confirmation of accuracy, they have to check and confirm it is as described. They are obliged to do due diligence, this is explained fully to every buyer. 

It's a fair point but there's a limit to how much checking/due diligence Joe Public can do...that's our job surely. Maybe i'm missing something but is it just getting them to sign off a PDi form?

^^^ That wasn't meant to sound like a dig btw it's just a really interesting topic/ever continuing issue that seems to get worse each month.

I've watched a few of your videos and it would be interesting to see if the content could be used as good evidence to be presented if ever anything went to the small claims. It's a lot more comprehensive than a simple online advert so you could make a decent case that the goods were represented fairly possibly.

[have a word with the wife 299]

Wear and tear ? hmmm? what about "fair" wear and tear? more appropriate i think on 11 days use ? 

[BHM 994]

 

1 hour ago, grant8064 said:

 

It's a fair point but there's a limit to how much checking/due diligence Joe Public can do...that's our job surely. Maybe i'm missing something but is it just getting them to sign off a PDi form?

Expecting innocent Joe Public to sign some alleged “catch all” form sold by a motor trade consultancy & think you’re going to walk away from your obligations is kidding yourself. Most of us get out of any claims simply because it’s too much hassle for the punter.

I suspect if you stand in front of a judge as a gentleman of the motor trade being brought to book by Joe Public, then waving a PDI form that you, or a third party on your behalf, has completed to say your car was tickety boo will count for little.

Be upfront, talk straight, don’t promise the earth, don’t let chancers take the piss, deal firmly but fairly, avoid fault prone models of cars, advertise honestly & fully mechanical prepare your stock and you won’t go far wrong.

[Ek cars 17]

Stand your ground very unlikely to go to court and you have made a very good offer which he will probably have no choice in accepting. 

[NOACROSS 414]

Yeah - that I agree.  I offer mostly in-house return to base warranties, or if they're out of the area or it's some german junk etc that may poop itself for fun- I will pay for one, as £3000 for a gearbox etc hurts much more than £150-200 for a warranty.

I've been doing it 25 years plus too and yeah,  you realise early on that paying for warranties is daft.  However, we have to give a warranty was my point, as I read (maybe wrongly) that you don't give any warranty.

Anyhow- glad you're out of the problem and let's get back to the January rush eh.. ;-)

[D&M 66]

20 hours ago, have a word with the wife said:

Wear and tear ? hmmm? what about "fair" wear and tear? more appropriate i think on 11 days use ? 

The car isn't 11 days old though, the part that has failed is 11 years old.

How do you know the customer hasn't filled up the car with a bit off s*itty fuel that has popped the light on?

Or sat on the drive faffing about with the radio/windows/satnav etc and the battery has got low and that's put the light on?

I would assume that you've already covered this, but has the customer had the fault cleared and taken the car out for a couple of days to see if the fault comes back?

We wouldn't be jumping in and replacing parts until the code has been removed and the car road tested - seems like just giving certain cars a dirty look can pop a warning light on!

I think you've been more than fair offering to pay for the part and 60% labour.

If you outsourced a warranty to one of the big warranty providers, would the fault have been covered? I doubt it.

We have a 'self funded' type warranty. Gentlemanly, firm and fair works well for us.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

On 11/01/2018 at 6:55 PM, Dealer said:

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

21 hours ago, have a word with the wife said:

Wear and tear ? hmmm? what about "fair" wear and tear? more appropriate i think on 11 days use ? 

Fair.... ? 11 years old disco 3, the buyer should needs a huge pocket... expectation should be realistic. As dealers we are not responsible for “wear n tear”. Some Buyers have completely unrealistic expectations. If the billy had paid extra for an insurance policy to cover certain wear n tear issues then that is fine.

If they have chosen not to insure themselves beyond the CRA that’s their problem. 

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

21 hours ago, have a word with the wife said:

Wear and tear ? hmmm? what about "fair" wear and tear? more appropriate i think on 11 days use ? 

Fair.....? Wear n tear on an old machine 8 years past any warranty period should be expected. If they want a new, they should buy new........I am fed up with people thinking it should be as new just because its being retailed. 

Its time we stopped bending over.

[have a word with the wife 299]

21 hours ago, D&M said:

The car isn't 11 days old though, the part that has failed is 11 years old.

How do you know the customer hasn't filled up the car with a bit off s*itty fuel that has popped the light on?

Or sat on the drive faffing about with the radio/windows/satnav etc and the battery has got low and that's put the light on?

I would assume that you've already covered this, but has the customer had the fault cleared and taken the car out for a couple of days to see if the fault comes back?

We wouldn't be jumping in and replacing parts until the code has been removed and the car road tested - seems like just giving certain cars a dirty look can pop a warning light on!

I think you've been more than fair offering to pay for the part and 60% labour.

If you outsourced a warranty to one of the big warranty providers, would the fault have been covered? I doubt it.

We have a 'self funded' type warranty. Gentlemanly, firm and fair works well for us.

i know i know i know ! BUT, hes only had it 10days ! and whatever pdi sheet or quoting its mega miles or 11 year old will not stand up in the eyes of a judge, in my opinion the customer could quite rightly reject the car completely, and the seller can quote all day fault not present at time of sale, but its so easy on the seller because he doesnt have to prove anything, other than what hes already got in his hand, a piece of paper from a garage with a estimate, and probably a recommendation by the garage to not use the vehicle because it could cause further damage [ cat] its the job were in and thats it ! we need to be fair, not fall over, but be aware that it could turn funny, been there, got the scars, i think arfurs come across a very fair guy indeed and should consider himself lucky because theres some right ****s out there [customers]

[Arfur Dealy 823]

34 minutes ago, have a word with the wife said:

i know i know i know ! BUT, hes only had it 10days ! and whatever pdi sheet or quoting its mega miles or 11 year old will not stand up in the eyes of a judge, in my opinion the customer could quite rightly reject the car completely, and the seller can quote all day fault not present at time of sale, but its so easy on the seller because he doesnt have to prove anything, other than what hes already got in his hand, a piece of paper from a garage with a estimate, and probably a recommendation by the garage to not use the vehicle because it could cause further damage [ cat] its the job were in and thats it ! we need to be fair, not fall over, but be aware that it could turn funny, been there, got the scars, i think arfurs come across a very fair guy indeed and should consider himself lucky because theres some right ****s out there [customers]

We have all been there and got the scars. 10 days is irrelevant, a car is a machine and faults can occur at any time, it is not my fault a sensor has failed on an 11 year old car. The customer has no right to instantly reject, we have the right to repair. The CRA is all about being reasonable and the expectations on a used vehicle are based on a sliding scale of age, mileage and the price paid. I believe and still believe I have acted in the best interest of the customer I have been more than reasonable. 

[trade vet 697]

4 minutes ago, Arfur Dealy said:

We have all been there and got the scars. 10 days is irrelevant, a car is a machine and faults can occur at any time, it is not my fault a sensor has failed on an 11 year old car. The customer has no right to instantly reject, we have the right to repair. The CRA is all about being reasonable and the expectations on a used vehicle are based on a sliding scale of age, mileage and the price paid. I believe and still believe I have acted in the best interest of the customer I have been more than reasonable. 

There appears to be a misconception that small claims court judges are fair and reasonable regarding the CRA where used car dealers are the defendants.I doubt there is anyone on here who has successfully defended a small claims case brought by one of their punters.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

30 minutes ago, trade vet said:

There appears to be a misconception that small claims court judges are fair and reasonable regarding the CRA where used car dealers are the defendants.I doubt there is anyone on here who has successfully defended a small claims case brought of their punters.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

49 minutes ago, trade vet said:

There appears to be a misconception that small claims court judges are fair and reasonable regarding the CRA where used car dealers are the defendants.I doubt there is anyone on here who has successfully defended a small claims case brought by one of their punters.

TV, I’ve been once, I defended myself and the case was dismissed. The bitch even had to cover all my costs. I don’t think I have had a more satisfying moment in my life. I walked out of court bouncing like tigger. It still makes me smile now seeing the bitches face. I would of gladly did a jig right there in the court room. 

Now, I know everyone has different experiences but we all talk about small claims like it’s a regular occurrence, it isn’t, if it is it’s because you are doing something wrong. 

I’m with Lawgistics and they are worth every penny. For £500 they save me considerably more, it’s s no brainier:) 

[BHM 994]

1 hour ago, Arfur Dealy said:

TV, I’ve been once, I defended myself and the case was dismissed. The bitch even had to cover all my costs. I don’t think I have had a more satisfying moment in my life. I walked out of court bouncing like tigger. It still makes me smile now seeing the bitches face. I would of gladly did a jig right there in the court room. 

Now, I know everyone has different experiences but we all talk about small claims like it’s a regular occurrence, it isn’t, if it is it’s because you are doing something wrong. 

I’m with Lawgistics and they are worth every penny. For £500 they save me considerably more, it’s s no brainier:) 

I’m interested in the concept of consultancy services. How do Lawgistics save you money? Do you regularly have cases to fight or are you valuing their advice?

[trade vet 697]

3 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

TV, I’ve been once, I defended myself and the case was dismissed. The bitch even had to cover all my costs. I don’t think I have had a more satisfying moment in my life. I walked out of court bouncing like tigger. It still makes me smile now seeing the bitches face. I would of gladly did a jig right there in the court room. 

Now, I know everyone has different experiences but we all talk about small claims like it’s a regular occurrence, it isn’t, if it is it’s because you are doing something wrong. 

I’m with Lawgistics and they are worth every penny. For £500 they save me considerably more, it’s s no brainier:) 

Arfur,you did well.Would you be able to explain roughly what the case against you was and why the judge threw it out.I have been to small claims court 3 times in the last 25 years with punters  and came second twice for no good reason and the other I won because the punter failed to appear.While I have won cases with builders,architects and notably BCA where I was the plaintiff.