GreenGiant

Good points, but I don't think Mrs Mini is questioning our valuation skills. Rather the ability for Mr & Mrs Public to acquire 'trade' valuations from the largest online portal. In our day, as you rightly said, we had a Glass's Guide in a nice leather holder, made our own judgements and 'earned or learned'. Then CAP came along and we had to compare the two but still used our own expertise to decide which was right and went from there. Our customers did not have access to any of our weapons of choice. I didn't even let the DP have a copy! I always said he could look at it but could never use it as it was so dangerous! But now... Where's the knowledge? Just tap in the reg no and mileage and you'll be told the value. Spec, colour, history, owners? Who cares? I'm buying and I want the cheapest. I've been told what it costs and you need my business. If you don't sell it to me, somebody else will and I'll screw your reputation on facespace and twatter. Welcome to the New World. And we're letting it happen.

It will stay dead as long as we allow AutoTrader to continue telling our customers the trade prices of our cars. Their free 'valuation' service is killing us. Do not underestimate the damage this is causing. Check your own stock against the 'valuations' they provide. Then think like a potential customer using the info they have given. What would you do? And. more importantly, what would you want to pay?

So. We've just paid £165 for a Trade Licence that's of no use. AutoTrader are going to try and charge us more for bringing us less and less customers via an awful website - but there's no significant alternative... yet. And if the punters do somehow find us, they have already been told what the Trade price is of the car they want, and that's all they're prepared to pay. And they're gonna want Retail for theirs... Interest rates are gonna rise. And we might end up with Mr Bean as Prime Minister. Roll on 2015! Maybe a New Year Predictions thread?

Hmm. Here's a thing... You advertise your cars for sale - with or without reg nos visible. But as Jamslug says, the plates are on the car on the forecourt anyway and it isn't a great challenge for someone to use the number for a clone. You sell the car. (well done you!) The number, however, has been cloned and the false-plated car is used in a bank job/kidnapping/drive-by shooting/drug smuggling. The offending reg number is traced to the actual car that you have sold. Christmas morning, the house is surrounded and the father is taken away by armed police in front of the family and neighbours. See where this is going...? Guess who is going to have to help to unwind that!? And then the flak starts flying. Did you do enough to protect yourself, your company and your customers? As it happens, I have on my desk a speeding ticket for a car that was actually on my forecourt at the time the offence took place 150 miles away. I have also been contacted by the police in that area telling me not to sell the car as it is subject to an ongoing investigation and a future owner may find themselves in a whole world of trouble. It makes for an interesting discussion as to who a court might find potentially negligent and/or liable at various links along the chain.

When a man with a lisp says "bithnith" ...You know he means business.

I'm sure they have, but if the bear's sleeping, there's nothing to be gained by poking it.

Jim It's as Gavin says - the data that AT get comes indirectly from the manufacturers and would, until recently, typically include make, model, derivative and correctly-named options (COMAND,, Champagne Nappa Leather, etc, etc). We would tick the appropriate boxes for the correct spec, hit SAVE and job done. This was when they got the data from CAP. NOW, the model specific detail is shockingly poor. Just think how many trim/alloy/media options there are, for instance, on a BMW 3 Series. Just making sure the correct details are in an ad to make it attractive is difficult enough when you have the full list. But now the choices are: Cloth trim Full Leather Trim Half Leather Trim Alloy Wheels Satellite Navigation In Car Entertainment Speakers (...seriously) That's it. Take it or leave it. The implications are enormous, as cars with extra, desirable spec are going to disappear into the mire of standard spec vehicles, unless we spend a considerable amount of time adding each extra individually. This is not what we are paying for. Do AT care? You tell me. They say they do, but then they tell us it's going to be 6 months before it's fixed. It is completely unacceptable on every level. What AT seem to be oblivious of is that the Glass organisation doesn't have the resources to fix this The data will never be complete. And some fool has signed a 10-year agreement for it. I've got the rep coming in on Monday for an ear-chewing. Not going to change anything, but it might make me feel a bit better.

If any of you have tried to manually add a vehicle via the Portal, you will probably have found the whole process deeply frustrating, as the quality of the vehicle data (spec, derivatives etc) is shockingly poor. I'm losing the will to live with it all. A/T have signed up with Glass as supplier for their vehicle data. This is a 10-year deal. Previously, when they got the info from CAP, the vehicle data was pretty good, with just a few discrepancies that could easily be rectified. Additional options could be selected and the ads truly reflected the vehicles we were trying to sell. Now, the whole thing is a joke. Complete model ranges are missing or inaccurate, standard and optional spec is generic rather than specific - Apparently, 'exterior mirrors', 'speakers' and 'clock' are attractive standard options that we have to now de-select in order to not look complete numpties. Important extra options are not shown as being able to be selected, so they all have to be added manually or shown in the 'Attention Grabber' to give us a chance of appearing in a search (and don't get me started on just how crap that is now) This change was just imposed without any consultation and with no thought to the implications. The latest from A/T is that they hope to have the data accurate 'by Easter'. Seriously. 6 months to get the data back to where it was before some fool signed a deal with Glass to buy data that they haven't got. And can't provide, as they don't have the resources to supply it. But I expect they still got a fat bonus Nobody at A/T is listening. Their own forum (now online via the smashing new 'Explore' link) is full of very angry Motor Dealers, but this is just the tip of the iceberg as most Traders don't contribute. I'm gonna wind back my spend with them in the New Year - I know they won't really care but i'm not paying them to make things worse any more. I've signed up with Motors (thanks Andy & the team) and really hope it works and they gain momentum so we can all make the jump.

Name and shame!

Is it not Grease anymore?

Thing is, James, what we're really trying to do is find a loophole to enable us to run a few cars for the benefit of the business, without reducing their value by adding keepers to the V5s. So we're chucking around a few theories and ideas about how that might happen. What we don't want is some bod from the DVLA clocking on and slamming a door that might be a tiny bit open.

That's what i'm saying. I can't work out how and why it would be different from before. A couple of questions have come to mind though: If a car is taxed using the V5C/2, is there a time limit before the full V5 has to be sent on? There never seemed to be previously, as we all know. Even now, I'll hold back a V5 for a few days after handover, just in case it all goes tits up and needs unwinding. I guess there must be some kind of flag against the vehicle record to prevent a refund of the new tax going back to the previous keeper when the keeper change is finally notified. Or is there? Can you imagine the chaos if that wasn't the case? What about the many, many thousands of vehicles on Contract Hire? As all the paperwork is kept and dealt with by the C/H companies, how do all those drivers know if their cars have been re-taxed every year? At least a tax disc came through the post previously, so you knew it was done, but I know of some where that didn't happen automatically and had to be chased.

Except that we've used the 'doc ref' from the V5C/2 and have, therefore, told the DVLA that a keeper change is taking place. In addition, before Oct 1 this was common practice for all of the Trade and no issues have ever been had with those cars that were 'in trade' so I see no reason why that should change. The vehicle is being driven by a Bona Fide motor dealer, is taxed and insured. Where's the beef? Oh, and the car is showing online as taxed this morning. So it's probably an overnight update. Still a bit pointless.

OK, so we need a smoker for the weekend. We've got one with a cheapie road tax amount and I've just gone on the DVLA 'renew my tax' website. I clicked the 'i don't have the V11 reminder' link, ticked 'new keeper' and it asks for the 12 digit ref no from V5C/2 (same as the 11 digit ref no from main V5 with extra first digit). As an experiment, I entered the number but with a different first digit - made no difference - still carried on as normal. Entered payment card details and got confirmation. Nowhere was I asked to make sure the full V5 with keeper change is sent to the DVLA. So I won't. Got Email confirming the same. Checked vehicle status on DVLA website - still showing as untaxed, but message says it may take up to 5 days(!) for details to update. What have we learned? The 12 digit code from the V5C/2 is an irrelevance. If you have the main V5 (or even a copy) you can pretend to be a new keeper by just adding a random digit to the front of the number on that. The DVLA database does not update in real time, even if you tax a vehicle directly with them. Which renders it kind of pointless. I would assume that the balance of the tax will therefore be transferred to an actual new keeper when the car is eventually sold, as the DVLA have been told that there is a new keeper and when the main V5 is sent off, the details should all join up. So we'll see what happens.

Oh dear. And I thought we were like-minded. We'll have to undo that high five.

Another bucket of nonsense that can bugger off back from whence it came. And yet the mindless hordes are prepared to rip each other to bits to get a few quid off a naff old model telly. Just been reading that the MT200 average Pre-tax profit (as % of T/O) is 1.3% How much more is there to give away?

OK, but not too hard.

Typical slightly incomplete article. Misinformation at its best. No explanation as to the legal definitions and differences between keeper and owner. As it is practically impossible to tell how many owners a car has had, we can and do always declare the total no of keepers shown on the V5. We usually just show the V5 to the customer to examine before purchasing so they can make their own mind up.

I did have my tongue in my cheek when I typed that. It's almost getting to the point where we have to assume everyone is out to scam us, unless they can prove otherwise. How sad is that?

This is the one pointy question that affects a great many of us. If you can still tax a car on the green slip at the Post Office, not send off the main V5 and be able to use it for up to a year with it showing as taxed, then we can crack on as before and have a couple of 'smokers' for general use. Will we need to wait a year for the answer?

Heads they win, tails we lose. However, a recent case also makes interesting reading: http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/read-news/758 So, if you do agree to take a deposit by credit card, make sure the card belongs to someone other than the actual purchaser of the vehicle!

S'funny isn't it? In amongst that thread are one or two pearls of wisdom, but the vast majority of opinions are the typical, jaundiced, distorted tabloid views of the Motor Trade that were formed a nanosecond after Herr Mercedes met Herr Benz...

...bit harsh. I may pop in occasionally to see what's app! My missus hasn't got an account at Harrod's. Doesn't mean she can't look in the windows!

I've PM'd you.

The amount of time I'd need to Zapp up my Twonk rating (or whatever it is) will, I believe, be better served actually talking to customers, thank you. Btw, YTD Sales Dept profit up over 200% on last year. Not bad for a technophobic Philistine, eh?