Spares or repair sale

[Daylight 28]

Evening all, a bit of advice required. 

From time to time I sell off some cars via eBay auction, usually cars that require too much work to get to retail standards from part ex etc. One such car I sold in this way about a month ago was an automatic Beetle convertible with an intermittent gearbox issue (described in listing). Sold from 99p with no reserve and made £2.2k (cap retail was £4295).

The terms I state in the listings say the cars are a trade sale with no warranty given or implied and will be invoiced as spares or repair, do not bid if you don't agree to this. Car was collected looked over and test driven by the buyer and an invoice stating its as spares or repair made out & signed by buyer.

Tonight I've had the buyer on the phone threatening to come around my house (I trade from home) and other such violent behaviour as the car is in the garage with gearbox & head gasket issues apparently. 

I'm not out to deceive anyone over any cars I sell, whether retail or in this way. I'd like to get your opinions and a legal standpoint on this if anyone can help. 

Thanks in advance

[Tom 164]

All ebay sales come under the current Sale of goods Act I'm afraid. 

If the car was clearly advertised with the gearbox fault on the listing and on the invoice then its tough luck to the buyer as he bought with this fault. 

The head gasket issue needs to be looked at by you and you should be given a chance to repair as it will be assumed it was there at time of sale. 

 

[Steve92 80]

As above, the gearbox issue is stated in the add so they shouldn't have any recourse, the headgasket you would probably need to cover. I didn't think a trader could sell something without a warranty. The easy way out would be to buy the car back at the auction price and put it through a car auction and hope for the best.

[sparky 274]

Whatever the rights and wrongs are, is it really worth the grief  dealing with that type of character?

I would have the car back, dispose of it again and let some other poor sod deal with your man.

[Daylight 28]

Thanks for the quick responses all. I'm going to have a chat with the garage where the car is today (ironically I know them very well as I used to rent the unit next door!) and find out what the issue is with the head gasket etc

After sleeping on it, I'm leaning towards just getting the car back to save bringing trouble to my door. I bought their Corsa from them after they bought the Beetle which I have prepped for sale (paint, new timing chain, service etc), i'm inclined to offer them this car back and take back the Beetle and be done with it.

[James Bush 95]

Yep every car you sell, no matter how listed on an advert has to be sold with a warranty. The only way around this is to sell as scrap and fill in the appropriate details with DVLA.

You can sell a car with known faults and these should be listed on the advert and order/form and invoice and the customer needs to made aware of them. Keep copies of everything as customers can be deceitful little sods sometimes. I sell cars from time to time with faults and always have my workshop write a report up and also give this to the customer.

Unfortunately if another fault arises this has to be covered by yourself. I would either give the guy his money back as it sounds like you'll spend far to much time dealing and worrying about it to make it worthwhile or try and have a sensible chat with him, get the car back and inspect it yourself. Beetles can sometimes display signs of headgasket issues and I would double check their diagnostic, overheating or signs of overheating seem to be an issue with Beetles. I had one a while ago where a VW garage were adamant it was a headgasket and it turned out to be a faulty thermostat that was causing the water pump to overheat.

[CJ Underhill 34]

I always list the faults, sometimes even too much on bodywork issues as i just can't be dealing with the hassel.

I also put the faults in bigger front, and bold so there can be no missing it, then print off 2 copies of the ebay listing and get the buyer to sign both copies.

Saying that, you're lucky the buyer turned up. I've sold an old clio auto 4 times on ebay.. even for £400... and nobody ever turns up to pick the bloody thing up

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

Guys how do the salvage yards get around this, as they sell as trade but just write in the relevant guff on the invoice

[Steve92 80]

I would guess that if your buying something as salvage then your not buying it to do a specific job as in use it as a car. If I buy a a car from a dealer it must be fit for purpose and work as a manufacture intended. By selling a car that is damaged you are admitting that you are buying it knowing it won't get you from a-b. I would guess the sales of goods act would cover you for misrepresentation but for fit for purpose I think not.

[Max Branning 149]

Evening all, a bit of advice required. 

From time to time I sell off some cars via eBay auction, usually cars that require too much work to get to retail standards from part ex etc. One such car I sold in this way about a month ago was an automatic Beetle convertible with an intermittent gearbox issue (described in listing). Sold from 99p with no reserve and made £2.2k (cap retail was £4295).

The terms I state in the listings say the cars are a trade sale with no warranty given or implied and will be invoiced as spares or repair, do not bid if you don't agree to this. Car was collected looked over and test driven by the buyer and an invoice stating its as spares or repair made out & signed by buyer.

Tonight I've had the buyer on the phone threatening to come around my house (I trade from home) and other such violent behaviour as the car is in the garage with gearbox & head gasket issues apparently. 

I'm not out to deceive anyone over any cars I sell, whether retail or in this way. I'd like to get your opinions and a legal standpoint on this if anyone can help. 

Thanks in advance

Out of interest was the buyer a "trader" himself? As you listed the car as a trade sale. If so then he would have virtually no case whatsoever. 

The fact that you stated quite clearly that the car had problems and was sold as spares or for repair ie NOT ROADWORTHY then it would be a very hard case for them to take you to court, and most of the time it will be all threats and nothing more. 

It sounds to me like a lot of ebay dreamers that this guy thought he was getting a bargain when in fact he was getting exactly what he paid for.

Stand your ground. And if any threats are made regarding coming to your house just pass his details to the police.

[Daylight 28]

UPDATE

I decided that the worry of a gang of very nasty travellers arriving at my door for more than a cup of tea was not worth me putting up a fight and went ahead as I mentioned earlier and have taken ownership again of the Beetle and given them back their very much improved Corsa with no money changing hands. The buyer was very happy with this outcome and apologies were made along with assurances that any reprisals have been called off and put to bed.

In an unbiased mind I would argue a couple of points above about all cars sold by traders having to carry a warranty though. If an item is sold as spares or repair then as long as it is possible to be repaired or the parts of the vehicle can be used for spares surely it is fit for the advertised purpose?

The buyer wasn't a trader to answer your question too Max.

 

 

[SC Derby 259]

No trader has to offer a warranty, that isn't true. But we do have to adhere to The Sales of Goods Act.

[Wheelerdealer1 91]

One of the dangers of trading from home, I think you did the right thing in those circumstances 

[Jack Regan 116]

Ebays an auction which they charge customers to put cars cars in ,so why are the rules different to a normal auction, BCA  etc, they are trade sales... I know some auctions you get an hour and if there is any major faults you could get money back , why is an ebay auction different ?

If a car is advertised as spares or repair, that's exactly what it is ...I think we roll over to easy , if we stood our ground more instead of giving money back and bending over backwards cause of the threat of trading standards etc or I'm "taking you to court " threat ,most of these idiots that are buying cars for half the money  they would normally would go away.

As for threatening to come round your house with threats of violence ring the police, 

Edited September 3, 2015 by Jack Regan

[Daylight 28]

No trader has to offer a warranty, that isn't true. But we do have to adhere to The Sales of Goods Act.

Of course and which says it must be fit for purpose and also:

"The Act covers new and second-hand vehicles however if you sell to another trader under 'trade' terms, their only entitlement to a refund is if the vehicle isn't 'as described'." 

I would argue that covers me on both counts in this case as it was described correctly & the purpose was spares or repair. This is just for discussion, obviously I've chosen to settle this dispute in the way I described but agree with Jack below

Ebays an auction which they charge customers to put cars cars in ,so why are the rules different to a normal auction, BCA  etc, they are trade sales... I know some auctions you get an hour and if there is any major faults you could get money back , why is an ebay auction different ?

If a car is advertised as spares or repair, that's exactly what it is ...I think we roll over to easy , if we stood our ground more instead of giving money back and bending over backwards cause of the threat of trading standards etc or I'm "taking you to court " threat ,most of these idiots that are buying cars for half the money  they would normally would go away.

As for threatening to come round your house with threats of violence ring the police, 

I don't think an Ebay auction is different if the car is listed clearly as a trade sale as quoted above. I don't agree we "roll over too easily" though. In this case I did so save myself from the very real threat of being disabled or worse (I'm not sure the police would give me much confidence of protection if I'm being honest, only legal recourse after the event which would be too late). I may do the same again in future if I feel the customer has been particularly unlucky or would face serious hardship because of this, out of compassion not statutory obligation though.

[It's me 612]

the way to handle this is as follows in my opinion

assess the car and work out all avenues

ie

fix

car auction

trade on

ebay

scrap

 

once all costings have been tallied for each and every action can you decide the best course

however if you are going to sell into ebay and say its a trade to trade sale then they have to be trade,no ifs no buts turn the sale down rather than take money thats going to come back and kick you ,dont take a trade in and to be fair why not just put it in at a fixed price anyway that you are happy with,this way proper traders can do their sums and work out if its worth buying rather than having itinerants sat round their computers on a sunday night chewing on their maccy dees and having the last bid

the last 2 cars ive just sold went this way to proper bona fida traders that did their sums and knew there was still meat on the bone for them,ebays a great tool but it does bring out the scum

[RandomJord 7]

In this case I did so save myself from the very real threat of being disabled or worse (I'm not sure the police would give me much confidence of protection if I'm being honest, only legal recourse after the event which would be too late). I may do the same again in future if I feel the customer has been particularly unlucky or would face serious hardship because of this, out of compassion not statutory obligation though.

hmmm Gang of angry travellers at my door V's Moral High ground.....

mate, you played it exactly right, reverse the deal, shake of hands. Thanks very much goodbye!