A quick hello

[MJG50 7]

After many enjoyable months of reading the forum, I've finally taken the plunge and become a member I don't want to bore everyone to death with my history in the trade but I've done things a bit back to front in that I started out with a retail pitch and then got smaller and smaller! I'm at the point now where I'm only part-time and my ideal scenario would be to specialise in a few prestige cars. In the past, I always found the best margins in the prestige sector - to be honest, I always struggled to make more than a few hundred quid on anything mainstream simply because there is always so much competition! I always found it a bit baffling that many local dealers do well on small cars but for me they are a complete no no! Almost anything small and low mileage makes pretty much the same price at auction as I can sell them for! I tend to find very high milers a lot easier to sell than low milers.

As the years have gone by, it seems much harder to source decent stock and the preparation costs of prestige cars can be astronomically high. One big problem of being small is that if you buy the occasional clunker it takes a fair bit of time to recoup your losses. If you are buying and selling hundreds a year the odd inevitable headache car isn't really such a problem. There have been times in recent years where I've seriously considered packing it in! Although ex-lease cars are the safest buys at auction, unless it's something very high spec, there's simply too much competition out there. More recently, I've been concentrating on part exchanges from the big dealer groups at auction but inevitably, a lot of people tend to trade their car in when something plays up with it. I've been a tad unlucky in that department in recent years so it's great to find such a good forum where everyone seems so friendly and helpful. Buying and selling cars can be a bit of a lonely game in some ways so it's good to hear other trader's experiences on here.

I'm a bit old fashioned in that I always prefer to attend the auctions, in fact I've only ever bought one car online and I had 8 days of anxiety waiting for it to be delivered but thankfully it was all fine when it arrived. I always find it amusing at the block as you overhear so many dealers who seem to be selling more cars than Car Giant! This forum is brilliant for being so honest and down to earth and it is an absolute mine of information! I only wish this forum was around 20 years ago when I started.........mind you, if it was I may have never have started in the first place!  If you think of all the things that could go wrong with car dealing, you'd never do it! 

Anyway, I'll keep it short but I'm looking forward to contributing more in the future and all the very best to everyone on here.

 

[justina3 518]

You call that short !! Would hate to see long, I jest of course welcome. 

One point from a typical mainstream seller as you call us, if anyone tells you there having it away with mainstream kit there in lala land there is only ever hundreds left in this type of stock I see daily what people pay in the block and what they sell them for so don’t believe the hype. 

And I would suggest you apply for the dealer lounge a lot more swearing goes on in there. 

[MJG50 7]

Many thanks guys, it's interesting to hear no one is having it away with the mainstream tackle. That's why I'm keeping away from it! Not that dealing in specialist stuff is exactly easy at the moment. I've just bought a Jag XK with an unexpected problem, time will tell if it's going to be a major headache or not! In the old days, I used to buy a few with their EMLs on. These days, I'm buying without any warning lights only for one to come on 30 seconds after driving out the gates!

[It's me 615]

nice post mjg

the easier life is to keep away from tech heavy s*ite if you can, this cant happen with big lumps though because most of them are sold with lots of knobs for knobs by the dealers as its usp

 

just sayin..............

[Dealer 54]

11 hours ago, MJG50 said:

Many thanks guys, it's interesting to hear no one is having it away with the mainstream tackle. That's why I'm keeping away from it! Not that dealing in specialist stuff is exactly easy at the moment. I've just bought a Jag XK with an unexpected problem, time will tell if it's going to be a major headache or not! In the old days, I used to buy a few with their EMLs on. These days, I'm buying without any warning lights only for one to come on 30 seconds after driving out the gates!

Exactly this! Within 7 miles they come back on if they have been knocked off before they enter the ring! Boils my piss. 

[justina3 518]

As in any business it’s all a game of numbers so many factors to consider, some night frown on earning £500 out of a car but if you do 15 a month then it’s not a bad wage if your overheads are low. 

Some look at hassle factor selling 15 cars over 2-3 obviously a lot more work but on the flip side the newer high spec cars will cost a lot more to repair say over a bog standard fiesta. 

Guess all anyone can do is find what fits you and work on making that model the best you can chopping and changing every five minutes is where the big headaches start to come. 

[MJG50 7]

Thanks Jason, you are right about keeping from tech heavy stuff but the trouble is I'm looking to only sell a small number of cars a year so making £500 on something mainstream isn't really viable with my turnover of cars.

I've had rotten luck recently Dealer with EMLs - it makes me think I'd almost rather buy stuff with the EML showing as then at least I get it a lot cheaper. It's so frustrating to pay a decent price to get the car at the block only to face a big unexpected bill. I'm getting it checked out on Monday, it seems like some sort of misfire.

That's very true justina3, if I could do 15 £500 profits a month I'd be very pleased but at this stage in life, I'd rather try and concentrate on bigger margins with low volumes - not that this seems easy at the moment. Going back a few years, it was possible to make a decent profit on the more specialist stuff but these days that profit nearly always seems to be swallowed up by prep costs.

I've always found it fascinating in the trade that what works well for some won't work for others. When I had the pitch, I struggled with cars other pitches sold in worse condition for more money but I guess with pitches a lot depends on how long you are established. Starting a pitch from scratch wasn't anywhere near as easy as I thought it would be.

 

[trade vet 701]

12 minutes ago, MJG50 said:

Thanks Jason, you are right about keeping from tech heavy stuff but the trouble is I'm looking to only sell a small number of cars a year so making £500 on something mainstream isn't really viable with my turnover of cars.

I've had rotten luck recently Dealer with EMLs - it makes me think I'd almost rather buy stuff with the EML showing as then at least I get it a lot cheaper. It's so frustrating to pay a decent price to get the car at the block only to face a big unexpected bill. I'm getting it checked out on Monday, it seems like some sort of misfire.

That's very true justina3, if I could do 15 £500 profits a month I'd be very pleased but at this stage in life, I'd rather try and concentrate on bigger margins with low volumes - not that this seems easy at the moment. Going back a few years, it was possible to make a decent profit on the more specialist stuff but these days that profit nearly always seems to be swallowed up by prep costs.

I've always found it fascinating in the trade that what works well for some won't work for others. When I had the pitch, I struggled with cars other pitches sold in worse condition for more money but I guess with pitches a lot depends on how long you are established. Starting a pitch from scratch wasn't anywhere near as easy as I thought it would be.

 

Good luck,but if you are working from home I would stick to what you are good at.

[have a word with the wife 299]

hello 

[MattR 177]

If the prestige isnt working for you, it may be time to look elsewhere, but you're right in identifying thats where the high profit per unit SHOULD be. Pitches are good for mainstream fiesta, corsa etc, never hugely profitable on their own, but sell 15 a month and theres a wage at the end of it. Good chance of some warranty and accessory upsell too for youngsters who want to connect phones etc and parents who want someone else to pay if something goes wrong in a few months.

I think you need to make sure you can offer finance with prestige (if you dont already) to make sure you dont miss anyone, and perhaps be more flexible about what you buy at the block. Prestige is rare where I go, and when it rolls through it makes big money, even when its not right. So try to go to an auction where there's several hundred going through so you can be fussy. 

Just remember, we all know theres bad cars out there. you will get one from time to time.I've got 2 at the moment that will only get me money back when I've retailed them, but thats life. Just so long as you can be profitable after a big fix, you'll be alright

[MJG50 7]

Prestige definitely isn't working as well for me as it did 10 years ago but I'll perservere with it. I offer finance but most tend to be cash buyers. You are so right about prestige making big money, even when it's not right! I go to Blackbushe a fair bit where's there's lots of prestige but most of it tends to make top money. I probably need to chance buying online as I often see a few 'bargains' when watching online but when I'm at the auction in person I usually find that there's a good reason for anything that goes cheap. 

We definitely have to take break evens and losses on the chin, I used to be absolutely gutted if I lost money on a car or only broke even but you just have to accept it.

[Dave2302 387]

Hi, and welcome to the Forum

I'm sure Nick will back me up here, both he and I sell late Prestige stuff ..................

He does a helluva lot more units than me, because I'm also running a busy workshop, specialising in lumpy prestige, dealer level diagnostics etc and also in my old age I'm a lazy fucker who doesn't need to earn a fortune these days, been there spent that etc, several times over 

You have got to know what is likely wrong with these Cars, you've got to have a good source of decent used spares, and you have got to have a good but reasonable Mechanic / Sparky who can fix them, or have your own workshop like me.

I buy late stuff for peanuts, where the seller has been quoted telephone numbers from the Stealers and they cost me very little to repair, prep and sell 

I'd much rather do 10 cars with 3k + in them, than do 30 Cars with £500 across them

[MJG50 7]

Great post Dave, particularly the 'I'd much rather do 10 cars with 3k + in them, than do 30 Cars with £500 across them ' line. I couldn't agree more  These days though, I'm finding a 3k margin nigh on impossible whereas it certainly wasn't 10 years ago!

I know what you mean about not needing to earn a fortune, I'm only part time now so it almost feels like a hobby in a way. I'd struggle to buy a lot at the block even if I wanted to as the vast majority of stuff makes more than I want to pay!

The workshop I've used for years was really good but these days everything is so tech heavy, that I often end up having to go to a main dealer to get things checked out - something I swore I'd never do years ago! 

 Like this

[grant8064 219]

Evening MJG and welcome from me.

We've not much in common; i'm mainstream, pitch and the mere thought of dealing with used Jag, Audi, BM, Merc & Range, and the people they attract, gives me cold shivers...gimmie a 10 plate Aygo any day of the week. You've also been in the game a lot longer and I know sod all about trading from home.

Sure they'll be some crossover though!

3 hours ago, MJG50 said:

You are so right about prestige making big money, even when it's not right! I go to Blackbushe a fair bit where's there's lots of prestige but most of it tends to make top money.

The same applies to 58 plate Focus's and 61 plate Pandas...firm believer there's only 10% of any auction that's genuinely desirable whatever the makeup and it almost always makes the money

[trade vet 701]

DISCLAIMER./ Reality check

Cautionary note for anyone thinking of starting up in this job after reading posts on this forum.Car dealers often have a habit of exagerating their profit margins.For instance I know of no one as previously suggested regularly retaining 3 grand margins per sale and operating alone and making £90k per month ( or even divided by 9 ). So any wannabes please don’t get the wrong impression......Thank you.

 

[Lazz 16]

I would not advise anybody to get into this game now as it's getting harder. I have encourage my own children to stop away from retail and pursue a professional career. This job deffinetly a bare knuckle ride at times, blown 3k on vehicles a couple of times with nails, one being a BMW.

And that money you think you've made sometimes has a habit of getting clawed back.

wish i was the vat man 20 percent for doing nothing and getting the mugs to administer all the paperwork as well.

People don't realise that you can blow money in a month, but the vat man will still Want his slice or should I call him the sheriff of Nottingham 

 

 

 

 

[Dave2302 387]

11 hours ago, trade vet said:

DISCLAIMER./ Reality check

Cautionary note for anyone thinking of starting up in this job after reading posts on this forum.Car dealers often have a habit of exagerating their profit margins.For instance I know of no one as previously suggested regularly retaining 3 grand margins per sale and operating alone and making £90k per month ( or even divided by 9 ). So any wannabes please don’t get the wrong impression......Thank you.

 

 

15 hours ago, MJG50 said:

I'm only part time now so it almost feels like a hobby in a way.

Errrrm, as I am the only one on here who has mentioned a figure of 3k in a Car I will elaborate a bit (as I often do)

The OP sounds and has confirmed in the above quote that he wants to operate in a similar way to me, also make money from Prestige stuff !!

He isn't getting a good profit out of small cars, would prefer lumpy prestige  

I certainly wasn't suggesting I sell 30 units per month with 3k profit, fuck me backwards if I did that I'd only work 3 weeks a year, I have no mortgage and small overheads nowadays   

The OP is clearly wanting to do like I do, I came up here to the NW to be semi retired, what I do now is just a hobby because I got bored sitting in a local Pub 3 or 4 afternoons a week !!

His problem is obvious, he is buying at Auction, and is not in the know as to how to fix these Cars with "minimum expense", but still make sure you don't see them again

Buy Privately, watch for a few weeks, then move in, and sort out your repairs and parts infrastructure.

Here is some more advice / knowledge ................................

I had already built my Workshop and brought all my Tools etc, Cars have always been in my life since I was an early teenager, modding my own vehicles and repairing them is something I have always loved.

If you know where to look, and what to buy regarding Prestige and then you can and will be able to have 3k out of 10 plate upwards stuff, especially taking on board my advice about repairing them efficiently (= properly but cheaply) 

I have never had to go to a Main Stealer to have anything fixed....................

2 years ago if I hadn't got a certain Dealer Level Machine I would buy it .............. Now have all the ones I will ever need, and I update them ...............

Years of contacts means good used parts at sensible prices, from say likes of Dronsfields (just for example, there are cheaper).

I use a very very good guy who can "Virginise" any locked modules etc, so I can then code 'em to the Vehicle.

Years of experience working on Prestige, (which is on going learning), as well as when I had the Auto Trans Firm means I know what will likely be wrong by simply looking / listening, and I will always want to plug a used car in to a Diag Machine before buying it ................

If the owner says "No" then I will walk, if the Car is miles away I ask him first.

Very rarely does anyone say no, the only ones who will are dishonest lying twunts anyway, and I'll usually have sussed that out on the phone  

When I have done all that I kick them right in the nuts with a stupidly low offer, knowing full well they simply don't want to spend that on a Car they have likely owned since new / almost new, there are a lot of folks who would rather buy a brand new Car than spend money fixing one they have owned for a few years.

If they won't accept my offer, I'll move along to the next Car, that rarely happens because I don't just make an offer I justify it by explaining what is wrong and quoting the sort of figures to repair that I know they will have been already quoted !! 

This may be a location thing, but I doubt it, I often buy from England, I even bought one recently from Dover area, and still had a massive profit.

I know a couple of big used dealers, (who I used to do Transmission work for), one in Kent and one in outer London Area who make an absolute killing doing exactly as I do, and they are still doing it today, albeit they now have Salesmen and many other Staff, so they don't actually attend work that often !!

Over and out

Edited April 28, 2019 by Dave2302

[Rory RSC 596]

12 hours ago, trade vet said:

DISCLAIMER./ Reality check

Cautionary note for anyone thinking of starting up in this job after reading posts on this forum.Car dealers often have a habit of exagerating their profit margins.For instance I know of no one as previously suggested regularly retaining 3 grand margins per sale and operating alone and making £90k per month ( or even divided by 9 ). So any wannabes please don’t get the wrong impression......Thank you.

 

Very true and as your volume of sales goes up, your overheads don't half shoot up to.

[Dave2302 387]

12 minutes ago, Rory RSC said:

Very true and as your volume of sales goes up, your overheads don't half shoot up to.

Also very true, but so should your profits, the deck of cards falls down when you are small and try to get big too quickly, start to miss stuff, can't afford staff in a quiet spell etc etc

I'd personally still stick to my own ethos, I'd rather have minimal overheads and sell a few with decent profit, than be working all hours to sell a lot of units for (much) smaller profits.

However, remember, I am now 57 years old and it has taken a long while and a lot of real life experience to get to that stage  

[MJG50 7]

Great post Dave, that sounds a brilliant set up

 

When I first started over 20 years ago, I used to buy prestige privately. It makes such a difference that you can drive the car before buying. Up til a few years ago though, I was fairly lucky with prestige auction purchases in that there were only minor faults that the workshop I've used for years could mend. More recently though, I'm finding major headaches with auction prestige purchases (I have one at the moment which I'll write a new post on later - it's possibly a prime example of something that might cost me a fortune to repair yet I'm sure Dave could repair relatively cheaply) and the workshop I've used for years has got a lot bigger and hence charges me a lot more. This is no doubt also because I'm now very low volume, I'm putting much less work their way.

 

I've even considered going mainstream to save the big prep costs but even mainstream stuff can need a lot of prep and I've said before with the number I'm turning over, making £500 a car isn't worth the effort or risk. In a nutshell, I thought I found my niche with rare prestige stuff but I need to be realistic and ask myself is it still working for me.

 

I have looked at a few private prestige cars this year but all needed work which the seller supposedly didn't even know about and all the sellers have been unrealistic in their pricing. But I really like the idea of buying prestige privately. There is the age old problem though that quite a few 'private' sales I recognise as cars that went through the block a few weeks earlier! 

[Dave2302 387]

Give a few Mercedes a go, BMW are OK, but IMHO avoid VAG stuff like the plague, they bite your ass

Buy late Cars with a problem privately, just watch the ads for a few weeks, if they've still got it go look see make bid !! 

But you seriously need to sort out a decent mechanic who has lot's of contacts you need an old git enthusiast like me, but sadly for you guys I'm too far away (and probably charge too much), although that said I do do trade work rates !!

Edited April 28, 2019 by Dave2302

[trade vet 701]

51 minutes ago, Dave2302 said:

Give a few Mercedes a go, BMW are OK, but IMHO avoid VAG stuff like the plague, they bite your ass

Buy late Cars with a problem privately, just watch the ads for a few weeks, if they've still got it go look see make bid !! 

But you seriously need to sort out a decent mechanic who has lot's of contacts you need an old git enthusiast like me, but sadly for you guys I'm too far away (and probably charge too much), although that said I do do trade work rates !!

Hi Dave

I was referring to car traders in general exagerating profit margins,it must have gone on forever.There cannot be many like you who can resurrect complicated ‘Fartherland’ stuff.I imagine if you factored in the hours involved you deserve/ need a big margin.

Too many people enter this job after being badly influenced by flash traders who usually ‘ don’t have a pot to P in ‘.

 

[MJG50 7]

I used to do quite well with Mercedes but got badly stung by an S-class ages ago and that really put me off! There are quite a few Mercedes specialists around who are willing to pay a fair bit more than me so I haven't bought a Merc at the block in a long while. I know of a couple of people who do really well with older Mercs up to about 15 years old but I'd find buying anything that old at the block pretty risky tbh. I've always liked BMWs and have done well on them in the past but again tend to find they make too much at auction to get a decent profit.

Funnily enough, I've always done ok with VAG stuff but I've only ever bought the odd one - reading this forum has put me off them in the future!

I will definitely keep more of an active eye on private ads in the future

You are right about needing a decent mechanic if I persist in buying prestige pxs from the block. I'm seriously thinking about only buying ex-lease stuff in the future after my experience with this Jag with the possible head gasket question mark. I know ex-lease isn't always without its problems but I've only ever had 2 with headaches. I just like the fact that ex lease stuff is at auction simply because the lease has come to an end whereas with a px it's often there because the previous owner has had an issue. I sold one ex lease Jag to a friend and 8 years later he's only ever needed tyres, discs and pads!

Edited April 28, 2019 by MJG50

[Dave2302 387]

@trade vet

No worries, I know you weren't singling anyone out, and yeah, I know what you mean, but OP seems to be wanting to do what I do sales wise, so I just wrote an essay 

@MJG50

S Classes lol, over the years I have bought a fair few W220's and latterly W221's in the past couple of years, mostly CDI's, the odd V8, a couple of non runners, common Electronic problems usually following a flat battery

Great money in an S Class, well most MB's really, especially if it isn't Silver, but even MB Tech's struggle to understand them 

I have had them in millions of bits over the years and can likely tell you what is wrong without a diagnostic read on a lot of the faults 

 

[MJG50 7]

I used to really like the W220 and couldn't get over how well the CDi drove. It was smoother to drive than an equivalent XJ which surprised me at the time. I got stung by a bad one though, instead of getting shot of it straight away I dithered about and lost a lot on it. 

I've never had a W221 but like the look of them. Maybe I should have a good look into Mercs, I've definitely gone right off Jags at the moment! I quite like the XF but have always found them quite hard to sell as there are so many of them about.