vw polo 1.2 Refunding a customer

[D&M 66]

It sounds like the daughter needed a car whilst on Uni break - and overspent. EML light came on, and taken to trusted mechanic who told them it wasn't anything to worry about so didn't fix it (but took some of your cash.)

Now Uni is back on, student loan wasn't as much as they expected it to be and she can't pay Dad back for the money she borrowed against the Uni loan. They can't sell privately as they don't want to lose money due to EML light still being on as its never been fixed, so are going all guns blazing for a refund.

Daughter isn't dealing with you as she is no good at lying or shouting, but Dad is. You've been more than reasonable, and they see you as a soft touch.

May be wrong, but something is fishy. So tread carefully and don't offer anything more than you are obliged to.

Good luck

Your first complaint is the worst - You'll grow a thick skin.

You're selling old machines that go wrong, and customers that expect new cars for used money.

[Dave2302 387]

On 23/09/2018 at 8:12 PM, Nick M.K. said:

Don't even think about it. 

Just send them the letter, recorded delivery by post. 

They might threaten with court but chances are they will not actually do anything. 

I will correct you here as well. A new EML has appeared, not The EML has "returned". It couldn't return with the same issue if "their" specialist charged you to fix it and IF it is the same issue it is now down that specialist that got paid by you to sort it out.

Absolutely, completely an utterly could not agree more with Nick !!

Put this in the letter as well ...........

"A new EML has appeared, not The EML has "returned". It couldn't return with the same issue if "their" specialist charged you to fix it and IF it is the same issue it is now down that specialist that got paid by you to sort it out."

HTH

[It's me 615]

2 hours ago, tradex said:

We are talking consumer law, small claims court 'he says, I says', not Old Bailey stuff with wigs 'n gowns and finite legal procedures.

Of course taking advice is always useful, paying for advice can be useful too if the information and advice is correct and timely.....maybe not best to discuss on an open forum of our experiences with a well known Motor Trade legal assistance company....I'll leave it at that except to say, bung me a grand (or less if smaller) a year and I'll tell you what you want to hear too.

You can chat with a proper solicitor for far less than an hours labour at your nearest Audi dealer if needs be.

as with all things your mileage may vary...

to add to this for anyone interested

i have a customer a good customer who is having a disagreement with a garage regarding a classic car and  the repairs not being up to standard

they have paid so far £40,000 in repairs 

this vehicle although they haver been told is,    is not even fit for the road

my customer has got a solicitor at £100 a letter involved and i was assured this trader wasnt limited

i checked online did some delving and find he is ltd and his accounts are overdue

ive played hell with my customer and told her to do the same with this solicitor

frankly im fuming they have been led up a path that empties bank accounts

so there you are all the money in the world and you can still get bad advice

this is why i use the school of age knowledge and been there, it might be old school but it still works

 

[Rory RSC 596]

35 minutes ago, D&M said:

 

Your first complaint is the worst - You'll grow a thick skin.

 

My first complaint - One a girl bought a Corsa from us, took it into a garage for a tyre to be replaced following a puncture a good few weeks into purchase. 

Next thing it was trading standards, Citizens advice, Ofcom, Watchdog you name it as the wheel bolts were loose - She  had owned the Corsa for 6weeks plus at this point how on earth was loose wheel bolts anything to do with us....

 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

I bet you its done a shed load of miles in 5 months, home to uni constantly......... That's why he won't tell you the miles... 

[Selfy trader 1]

9 hours ago, twerp said:

 

[Selfy trader 1]

 

 

Just read the email. Not acceptable in the slightest. I asked for a refund within the first 30 days. I let you talk me into sorting the issue. I wish I hadn’t now. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The issue is the engine management light coming on after the first two days of having the car. This is still occurring so this problem has been in place within the first 30 days of purchase. 

 

We have been more than fair in giving you several opportunities to fix the problem. You mention that it is ‘our specialist’ that has undertaken this work. 

 

As you may well recall, it was a suggestion that VASS take a loom at the vehicle as they are all VW main dealer trained and it would save you the hassle of collecting and delivering the car to and from your usual mechanic who is based several miles away from Bath. I do have this in writing that you were happy for us to take the vehicle to VASS. Therefore this is not my specialist. It was merely a recommendation that you agreed to. I also understand that you have since used VASS for other vehicle repairs. 

 

I have rights under the Consumer Rights act, 2015. More specifically ‘repair or replace’. 

 

Repair or replace

If you are outside the 30-day right to reject, you have to give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace any goods or digital content which are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described. 

You can state your preference, but the retailer can normally choose whichever would be cheapest or easier for it to do.

If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you can then claim a refund or a price reduction if you wish to keep the product.

You're entitled to a full or partial refund instead of a repair or replacement if any of the following are true:

the cost of the repair or replacement is disproportionate to the value of the goods or digital content

a repair or replacement is impossible

a repair or replacement would cause you significant inconvenience

the repair would take an unreasonably long amount of time.

If a repair or replacement is not possible, or the attempt at repair fails, or the first replacement also turns out to be defective, you have a further right to receive a refund of up to 100% of the price you paid, or to reject the goods for a full refund.

I stated within the 30 days that I would like a refund. I allowed you more than enough opportunities to fix the issue. 

 

I have also been in touch with Barclaycard and under Section 75 of the consumer credit act 1974, I have started a dispute in an attempt to get what it rightfully mine, a full refund. Once I have completed the form and sent off the relevant evidence, they have the power to do something called chargeback. We will then be reimbursed in full. 

 

I would rather not have to go down this route but as you are refusing to do what we are entitled to, I am left with no choice. 

 

 

Evening gentleman, here is what I received after sending my previous email, any advice?

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[EPV 631]

Please post the letter you sent to him. 

[Selfy trader 1]

Dear......,

 

I was surprised to be contacted by you regarding the new issue on the VW Polo after we rectified everything your specialist previously noted and at great cost to us which exceeded the limit of our warranty cover. This new issue was clearly not present at the point of sale (otherwise the specialist would've picked it up when he last worked on the vehicle) so may I suggest you get in touch directly with them as issues not present at the point of sale and not covered by extended warranty fall outside the realm of our responsibilities as a supplier of used vehicles. However, I can empathise with your situation and I do suggest you return the car to your specialist and we can go from there, I extended your warranty out of a gesture of goodwill and be sure I will stand by that once VASS diagnose the issue as per your previous request, until diagnosed we cannot take your query further. 

May I take this opportunity to thank you once again for your purchase and for your business. 

Best wishes. 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[Del Boy 76]

Reclaiming the money back from Barclaycard 5 months down the line? Yeah righto. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

He wasn’t entitled to a refund in the first 30 days, he accepted repair. They have used to car for 5 months and refuse to now state the mileage ! 

Mr Customer, tell me the fecking mileage !!! 

[EPV 631]

Sorry I know that several on here think that letter is the way to go but for me it doesn’t do anything useful for you. 

Mentioning the warranty is just erroneous, it means the square root of fuck all when it comes to dealing with the CRA. 

I don’t wish to sound like a twat but my suggestion of a letter was better. It deals with the fact he won’t release the mileage to you and deals with the fact that an EML isn’t a fault, it’s a possible indicator of a fault. 

It also showed you in the correct light, that you are a reasonable person and he is being unreasonable. 

In your shoes, I would now send my suggested letter with something added in clarifying that the EML coming on is not a sign that the initial fault has not been fixed but merely a sign that the car has developed a fault which is in all probability unrelated to the first fault. It is probably not an ongoing fault but a new fault. 

Start setting this bloke straight, stop mentioning what happened before and specialists and warranties. Act like this is a new problem (it probably is) and in any case he was never entitled to a full refund anyway. 

5 minutes ago, Del Boy said:

Reclaiming the money back from Barclaycard 5 months down the line? Yeah righto. 

I’d say that would be his best chance of getting his full refund as if the facts were laid bare he’d be getting nowhere near a full refund. Barclaycard may well wilt, shove him his money and try and bully the full amount out of OP. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

You do not buy an 11 year old banger and get to use it for free for 5 months. 

Mr customer. The CRA is designed to protect sellers and buyers equally. You are being unreasonable and refusing to allow the vehicle to be inspected and refusing to state the current mileage. You cannot Just demand a full refund. 

 

[Del Boy 76]

23 minutes ago, EPV said:

Sorry I know that several on here think that letter is the way to go but for me it doesn’t do anything useful for you. 

Mentioning the warranty is just erroneous, it means the square root of fuck all when it comes to dealing with the CRA. 

I don’t wish to sound like a twat but my suggestion of a letter was better. It deals with the fact he won’t release the mileage to you and deals with the fact that an EML isn’t a fault, it’s a possible indicator of a fault. 

It also showed you in the correct light, that you are a reasonable person and he is being unreasonable. 

In your shoes, I would now send my suggested letter with something added in clarifying that the EML coming on is not a sign that the initial fault has not been fixed but merely a sign that the car has developed a fault which is in all probability unrelated to the first fault. It is probably not an ongoing fault but a new fault. 

Start setting this bloke straight, stop mentioning what happened before and specialists and warranties. Act like this is a new problem (it probably is) and in any case he was never entitled to a full refund anyway. 

I’d say that would be his best chance of getting his full refund as if the facts were laid bare he’d be getting nowhere near a full refund. Barclaycard may well wilt, shove him his money and try and bully the full amount out of OP. 

No chance. This long down the line they will investigate first. They will want both sides of the story. OP will explain the buyer is withholding information. He could’ve put 10k on it for all we know, and he wants a full refund from credit card company? Haha no way will they entertain that. 

They wont do anything without serious evidence. 

Ive been on both ends of this. They don’t just ‘refund’ as easy as people believe. 

[EPV 631]

3 minutes ago, Del Boy said:

No chance. This long down the line they will investigate first. They will want both sides of the story. OP will explain the buyer is withholding information. He could’ve put 10k on it for all we know, and he wants a full refund from credit card company? Haha no way will they entertain that. 

They wont do anything without serious evidence. 

Ive been on both ends of this. They don’t just ‘refund’ as easy as people believe. 

Of course they will want both sides of it. 

In any case, Barclaycard aren’t the real issue here. This billy has the upper hand and imo is leading the OP by the nose. The previous letter has done nothing to put him back on his heels. 

[Selfy trader 1]

5 minutes ago, EPV said:

Of course they will want both sides of it. 

In any case, Barclaycard aren’t the real issue here. This billy has the upper hand and imo is leading the OP by the nose. The previous letter has done nothing to put him back on his heels. 

I don’t suppose anyone can help me draft a reply to this email? Like I said I’m fairly fresh to this and not 100% sure what a should and shouldn’t say clearly  haha

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Barclaycard won’t do anything following an investigation. Erm 5 month of use and refusing to state mileage, refusing to allow inspection etc etc. 

This guy is an utter chancer, he’s seen a weakness and thinks he can take piss 5 months down the line

I repeat THIS is exactly why you should NOT take card payments. 

[EPV 631]

Just now, Selfy trader said:

I don’t suppose anyone can help me draft a reply to this email? Like I said I’m fairly fresh to this and not 100% sure what a should and shouldn’t say clearly  haha

Apart from the one i’ve already done for you? 

Take what I wrote earlier today (by email and post only letter) and add in what I’ve written above. 

I don’t think you need to educate him on every wrong part of his letter but he was never entitled to a refund, the fault isn’t likely to be the same one, an EML isn’t a fault it’s an indicator, he isn’t entitled to a full refund now, the list goes on. 

He just needs to be put back in his place, a reasonable letter sent which will stand you in good stead if he wants to go long haul and you then need to get on with your life and wait for him to make his move. 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Tell him because of his unreasonableness you will now respond by recorded delivery letter. Slow it all down anted take control 

[trade vet 702]

Hi Selfi. This bloke has probably done this before with other transactions.He is probably some college lecturer type or civil servant.Tell him you are skint anyway and can’t afford to help.Have I missed something,you are a doorstep trader with a card machine ?

 

 

 

[Selfy trader 1]

Just now, trade vet said:

Hi Selfi. This bloke has probably done this before with other transactions.He is probably some college lecturer type or civil servant.Tell him you are skint anyway and can’t afford to help.Have I missed something,you are a doorstep trader with a card machine ?

 

 

 

Not quite, his daughter was interested in finance, through Zuto, but the rate was too high, she then asked her dad who wasn’t present to pay on card, card reader was my unofficial business partners who took payment and transferred it to me

[have a word with the wife 299]

so shes no money and hes no money ffs ! see you in court 

you wont let me view the car, you wont even give me current mileage,

25 minutes ago, trade vet said:

Hi Selfi. This bloke has probably done this before with other transactions.He is probably some college lecturer type or civil servant.Tell him you are skint anyway and can’t afford to help

 

 

 

cant get blood out of a stone 

[trade vet 702]

17 minutes ago, Selfy trader said:

Not quite, his daughter was interested in finance, through Zuto, but the rate was too high, she then asked her dad who wasn’t present to pay on card, card reader was my unofficial business partners who took payment and transferred it to me

The plot thickens,a third party business was involved in the transaction.This is interesting,is the partners business a Ltd co.

[Max Branning 149]

1 hour ago, Selfy trader said:

I don’t suppose anyone can help me draft a reply to this email? Like I said I’m fairly fresh to this and not 100% sure what a should and shouldn’t say clearly  haha

Dont feel like you have to keep replying back and forth, this could go on and on. You said your bit in your email and that should be it. 

Sometimes trying to help being reasonable just causes you more grief.

Why not just call the guys bluff and make no further contact...leave the ball in his court.

[EPV 631]

1 minute ago, Max Branning said:

Dont feel like you have to keep replying back and forth, this could go on and on. You said your bit in your email and that should be it. 

Sometimes trying to help being reasonable just causes you more grief.

Why not just call the guys bluff and make no further contact...leave the ball in his court.

Because at the moment he is letting the billy get the upper hand and making the OP look bad  

He needs to put the billy back in his box and make him look unreasonable whilstthe OP looks like the bigger man. Then he can leave the ball in his court.