palomine motors 2 Posted June 28, 2018 Firstly, hello to all other Car Dealer Mag forumites. I have a little predicament that I'd like some advice please....... I will keep some specifics out of the public forum for the time being if you don't mind. I sold a 16yr old / 60k mile car to a gentleman who lives approx 200 miles from my pitch last month. Prior to him collecting the car, I had the vehicle MOT'd - passed with no advisories, and a pre delivery inspection carried out. All known faults/issues/niggles (sat nav inop, cdl inop...minor things) were noted on both the PDI and order from, which he accepted. He also test drove the vehicle. We agreed figs/ px valuation etc and off he went quite happy. My order forms are from Lawgistics so mention PDI, right to reject etc.... all above board I think. Roll forward 26 days and I get an email stating the vehicle is not fit for purpose and wants a 'repair/replace/refund' as he has had problems with it.... brakes failing, overheating, EGR issues, injector issues, 3 oil leaks. I ask him for the reports to which I'm sent a video of a free health check from Arnold Clark.... very brief to say the least and only last about 30 seconds. Anyway, I like to do what I consider the right/proper/legal thing, I offer the customer a complete reversal of the deal... I still have his p/x and offer to give him all his money back. We agree a return day and time which comes and goes with no sight of the customer or vehicle. I've just called him and he says the vehicle has broke down on him whilst driving it back! My question is, should he be driving it back if he's stating it is not fit for purpose? And if not who is liable for the return recovery costs? And what about damage he may have caused by driving it whilst knowing it has issues? Input would be appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trade vet 703 Posted June 28, 2018 When it was reported as having brake and over heating problems I would say you had ‘a duty of care’ to advise your customer that it should be transported back to you.If his swapper is a good one,I would not give that back,just give him a refund. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palomine motors 2 Posted June 28, 2018 Thanks for the advice...... I've not opened the door on his part ex and it came to me with issues and valued accordingly. So I should have told him to transport it back to me. Who should cover that cost as a matter of interest? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arfur Dealy 823 Posted June 28, 2018 The lawgistics receipt states clearly that he understands that it is his responsibility to return it for a statutory claim. Offer him a full refund on receipt of the car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palomine motors 2 Posted June 28, 2018 Of course it does! I think my mind is going with this heat. I’m making a few schoolboy errors here, anyone would think I’ve been in the trade 2 minutes, not ten years working for myself. The thing is, I very rarely have issues and never one quite like this. Thanks for the reply Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stalker 180 Posted June 28, 2018 1 hour ago, palomine motors said: I sold a 16yr old This is why we decided a few years ago to stop retailing cars over 10 years old (8 years on Vauxhalls) Its just far too risky, we also put a limit on how far away they travel, i certainly wouldn't let somebody travel 200 miles for a older car. Last one we tried (2006 Volvo S60 2.0t) went 50 miles and put a leg out of bed, this was after me lending it to a mate to use for a couple of weeks and also using it myself for 4 weeks! The guy refused his cash back at the side of the road and asked us to fix it.... i said no chance its going to china cube shaped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tadams 29 Posted June 28, 2018 Why would you undertake a 200 mile journey in a car with the reported issues ?? ( brakes failing, overheating, EGR issues, injector issues, 3 oil leaks ) Is it a rare car ?? used for a parts swapper and now trying to give it back ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's me 615 Posted June 28, 2018 tread carefully if hes suggesting brake failure as trading standards might get involved,i would think for the age mileage it either has a sticky brake that caused the brake problem or because he used the vehicle on a long trip the fluid may have boiled due to being very old,this is the thing with old low mileage cars once they go on a proper run lots of problems occur from weeping hoses to fans failing to tyres blowing out,i too would be wary selling it on a long journey after a pampered life it might be wise to go get it and if you dont want his shitter to work out a deal ie so much knocked off etc or possibly nothing,ignore the get it back to base on the invoice in this case because customers complaining about dangerous cars need action now before their friends advise them down the pub and citizens advice move it up to trading standards...good luck weve all had these problems mine was a mk1 astra 25 years ago the brakes locked on on the a1 as he drove it home,i was there within an hour Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BHM 994 Posted June 28, 2018 Alleged brake problems = don’t f*** about. There endeth the sermon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palomine motors 2 Posted June 29, 2018 Thanks for all the replies. With regard to brake issues, of course we would not mess about and treat such problems very seriously. What I can gather from garbled emails and short videos is, Arnold Clark have deemed the brakes to be 'at minimum or below' which he is extrapolating to 'failure'. Yesterday I advised him not to drive the vehicle - and surprised he was driving it back if it was in fact not fit for purpose as claimed - and have it transported back to us. Today he emails to forget it all, he will keep the car, tells me to feel free to sell his px, and he will fix the car himself and asking if i would like to make a contribution to the repair but not to feel obliged. You couldn't make this stuff up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Area 51 33 Posted June 29, 2018 36 minutes ago, palomine motors said: You couldn't make this stuff up! As with all screamers, err hem, customers, this stuff writes itself..! Get it back, get him on his way and happy, and deal with the aftermath at your own speed via a scrappers.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palomine motors 2 Posted June 29, 2018 Did you read this bit????....... he emails to forget it all, he will keep the car, tells me to feel free to sell his px, and he will fix the car himself and asking if i would like to make a contribution to the repair but not to feel obliged. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rory RSC 596 Posted June 29, 2018 Get it back, show him Arnold clark are fishing for work refer to the MOT you carried out and the PDI you carried out prior to sale with recorded measurements of pads tyres etc and show him your arent a cowboy. Offer to get it re mot tested somewhere else if required and show willing as if it does go wrong I feel its always important to appear to have been reasonable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palomine motors 2 Posted June 29, 2018 Rory, so even though he is telling me to forget all about it, feel free to sell his px and he will sort out and pay for his own repairs ( he says a contribution would be nice but not essential) that I should still get it back? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Area 51 33 Posted June 29, 2018 Didnt this chap mention brakes were dodgy? if so, duty of care to investigate is foremost here for a trader = any trader.... Perhaps clarify what he is doing and remind him then of your offer to rectify/return etc and get it all in writing he is walking away.. months down the line I fail to see what else you could have done he is gets legal about it all... Sure more forum members here will have more relevant advice.. if youre into Lawgistics, then get them to rubber stamp your best next move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justina3 518 Posted June 29, 2018 We dont know values here so its hard to put a figure on what would be a decent offer to him, he has said he would repair the car himself, enough said there is no way on gods earth could he come back later and say its still faulty you would simply reply you clearly didnt do what you said you was going to do. Your offer should be a fair one, and make sure you clarify you had offered to get the vehicle back and put it right however HE decided to sort it himself thank him for his business chq enclosed job done, good result. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trident 24 Posted June 29, 2018 Just put in writing what has been agreed, confirm your offer stands if he can get it back in the next few days, no contribution unless you have seen the vehicle but will consider if inspected... move on...happy days... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's me 615 Posted June 29, 2018 go to his house give his wife one problem over take two paper bags just in case Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BHM 994 Posted June 29, 2018 3 hours ago, chief nut job said: go to his house give his wife one problem over take two paper bags just in case Is that why you call yourself chief nut job? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arfur Dealy 823 Posted June 29, 2018 I was thinking the bags would be for the wife..... hehe Just turn the light off and imagine that sky weather girl Naz...... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's me 615 Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BHM said: Is that why you call yourself chief nut job? never thought of that i will ask the wife her opinion Edited June 29, 2018 by chief nut job Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ek cars 17 Posted June 30, 2018 Bite the bullet and give him money back save aggro and move on and make it back in next profit !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palomine motors 2 Posted June 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Ek cars said: Bite the bullet and give him money back save aggro and move on and make it back in next profit !! Offered him that. He doesn't want anything from me at all now. All very strange, think it was a massive try on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ik1980 11 Posted June 30, 2018 Yeah it sounds like it. I hate people like that.. Still it turned out OK for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palomine motors 2 Posted July 2, 2018 And sold the swapper this morning. Happy days Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
