Problematic customer

[ASC 0]

We recently sold a 10 year old £1600 VW Polo to a buyer. 

Since buying, a couple things have happened....

1: They complained about exhaust being loud - dont know if anyone knows these cars but people change the first section with an aftermarket one (not performance) which deletes 1 silencer. this makes it louder. This was done before it came into our ownership and there is nothing wrong with the exhaust.

2: Battery drained (as far as i understand this is a consumable so we as a business are not liable - correct me if i am wrong)

3: They replaced the battery to find out the alternator has broken. We have now arranged for a mobile mechanic to come to them and replace this.

4: Buyer has found that there has been a small knock on the car sometime in its life. This has damaged one of the headlight mounts and the radiator mount. We were not aware of this and we did not at any point say to the customer categorically that the car has not been in an accident. We had no way of knowing this and to avoid problems like this we always sell cars with 12 months MOT. From what I understand the MOT means that the car is roadworthy and fit for purpose. Can they hold us liable for previous damage which we were not aware of and didnt come up in our inspections?

Due to age and value of vehicle it was sold as seen without any warranty, the buyer viewed it twice - once when deciding to purchase and leave deposit the second when collecting. 

From what i understand we need to replace the alternator but they cannot hold us liable for any bodge repairs from knocks.

 

Any help is very much appreciated 

[Mojo121 229]

Is it reasonable to expect that a car of 10 years old and £1600 has had some kind of bodywork repair in the past? I'd say so. The exhaust was the same when you sold it to them and passed an MOT. You're replacing the alternator via mobile mechanic at minimum inconvenience to them. I'd say you're being very fair and there's no grounds to be concerned. 

I'd also say they're suffering from a case of buyer's remorse. They'll get over it. Continue to fulfil your legal responsibilities and remind them that you're doing just that - beyond that they're on their own i.e. they won't be having you over a barrel!

Edited November 7, 2017 by Mojo121

[ASC 0]

16 minutes ago, Mojo121 said:

Is it reasonable to expect that a car of 10 years old and £1600 has had some kind of bodywork repair in the past? I'd say so. The exhaust was the same when you sold it to them and passed an MOT. You're replacing the alternator via mobile mechanic at minimum inconvenience to them. I'd say you're being very fair and there's no grounds to be concerned. 

I'd also say they're suffering from a case of buyer's remorse. They'll get over it. Continue to fulfil your legal responsibilities and remind them that you're doing just that - beyond that they're on their own i.e. they won't be having you over a barrel!

Thanks for that, My only concern is they the buyer is now almost looking to find faults. They said that the headlight is loose from said previous knock. We had no knowledge of anything to be wrong with it and passed MOT as is. Am I liable to now replace the headlight too?

[Mojo121 229]

It's hard to say the best course of action because I don't know what sort of people they are. Depending I'd say to them that you are concerned they are regretting their purchase and are just trying to find faults, that it's an old car and obviously they cannot expect factory fresh condition but you want them to be satisfied although there are limits of what you can do for them.

You have a few options:

1. Tell them it's their car. See you in court.

2. Ask them to put their grievance in writing so you can identify all the problems and come to an inbetween solution, fixing any that deem the car unsafe, not as described or make the car unfit for purpose getting the agreement that "if I resolve the problems agreed on you'll be satisfied with the vehicle?"

3. Just fix the headlight. I don't think you're liable to do it though. While it was a fault present at the time of sale it's not something that would make the car fall into the CRA refund category. Might be the case of just doing it for an easy life...

[justina3 518]

Those headlights are a shocking design very weak it takes the smallest amount of pressure to break them, depends on how awkward the customer is going to get sometimes its easier to just give them the money back and move on to someone who isnt pond life, for example his next comment could be if your agreeing to pay for the alternator then its logical to assume the lack of charge has killed the battery and therefore i think you should pay for that as well consumable or not.

And regarding your comment   "it was sold as seen without any warranty" that wont wash and you have already gone back on that by offering the alternator exchange.

sigh the joys of retail

 

[BHM 994]

I’m more or less with Mojo on this one.

Ask them to outline ALL of their OUTSTANDING grievances with the car.

Once you’ve received this possibly get the car back to satisfy yourself as to the issue(s).

Fix what you think you are liable to fix. Do NOT do anything out of goodwill - that’s long gone. I’d be tempted to tell them they’ve knackered the headlamp themselves.

After that, as Mojo says in his point 1. It’s their car, see you in court.

[ASC 0]

I went with semi-option 1.

Told her she inspected the car twice to make sure it was satisfactory in her opinion. it passed MOT as is so is fit for purpose. Offered her the replacement alternator when convenient for her.

Offered her two options.

1 - We change alternator which we legally should and it ends here

2 - She declines us fixing the alternator and takes it to court. 

 

Will update the thread with her response

[Rory RSC 596]

£1600 end of life car and the lads offering to send someone out to you to get it fixed at no cost to you on your driveway. 

 

Pretty good service to be fair. Exceptionally good service when you factor its an old tired car.

 

 

[It's me 611]

4 minutes ago, tradex said:

How recent is recent and miles covered?

Was the alternator faulty when it went out? I suppose what I'm really asking is do you check it as part of your PDI?

If it was fine at point of sale then this would be a wear and tear on a 10 year old car, they are a part that wears out and you could ask for a contribution for betterment.

Either way it's good that you are doing what you can for a problem customer and this can only look good on your part

to add to this ASC write everything down now that has been done what you are going to do etc with all times dates etc

you can always have a wedding with such stuff later if it doesnt go to lba 

[ASC 0]

 

On 07/11/2017 at 3:35 PM, tradex said:

How recent is recent and miles covered?

Was the alternator faulty when it went out? I suppose what I'm really asking is do you check it as part of your PDI?

If it was fine at point of sale then this would be a wear and tear on a 10 year old car, they are a part that wears out and you could ask for a contribution for betterment.

Either way it's good that you are doing what you can for a problem customer and this can only look good on your part

She purchased on the 18th of October, unsure of miles covered etc. 

We drove it to Manchester and back from Hertfordshire faultlessly so i am certain the alternator was fine. 

 

Here are some more updates for you all.

- She told me that she didn't want my mechanic to come and do the alternator but wanted her garage to do it at a cost of £240 (not sure if anyone knows about Polo's but that is beyond extortionate). I obviously said this was not an option.

- She told us that 'her garage' quote c£500 to fix the light and some sort of clip on the rad. £220 of labour. Ofcourse i told her we will not be contributing to this and for all we know it happened in their ownership (the car is being used by a learner driver). She viewed the car twice before purchasing so was given plenty of time to inspect.

- We replied to each one of her outlined points of concern via email in writing.

- She told us that she will go through small claims court and decided not to take the option of having alternator fixed by us. 

- This morning she went back on everything she said about court and now wants us to do the alternator. 

 

From where i am sitting, I am now very reluctant to do the alternator or contribute in any way.

 

What do you guys and girls think?

Do I a) have the alternator fixed for the sake of £110 or do i b ) tell her i will see her in court

[Arfur Dealy 823]

Did you get the car PDI'd and MOT'd prior to sale ? Do you have a signed PDI stating no probs with car on collection.....Your PDI or Sales Invoice should state clearly the car MUST be returned to you for any CRA alleged repairs. If you havent done the job properly and covered yourself you are leaving yourself completely open to abuse....

[BHM 994]

Don’t bother answering her email. Let her sweat it out until she sends you a reminder - she realises she’s made a mistake by threatening you with the courts.

Personally I’d then phone her, tell her she’s getting nowt & to go to court.

If it looks like she’ll go to court (highly unlikely & it’ll take her a few weeks to start sending letters) as you originally offered a repair then I’d reluctantly do the repair & get the cheeky bitch off your back. 

However she’s already dropped all of her other claims except for the alternator & my guess is she ain’t going to go over that. Fight fire with fire, there are plenty on here who’ll decry my hardline attitude but this is how I’d deal with a cheeky bastard shouting the odds.

[trade vet 697]

If you MOT'd it ,you should know how many miles she has done.I am unsure of  the relevance of Manchester to Herts etc,did you deliver it to her ? Cheap Polo's always sell,just make a recorded time related offer to rescind the contract with a full refund less the HMRC usage charge (45p per mile ) and you will learn from the experience.If she refuses,she is on her own from then as I understand ,as it is a cheapie.

[It's me 611]

36 minutes ago, tradex said:

As Arthur said plus one, in all in the details, some customers will rape you given the chance, which is a shame for the good ones.

Regarding her change in stance:-

Everyone deals with these things differently, we are firm but very fair, maybe we are wrong.

With us once a customer has threatened legal proceedings, we then insist that from that point onwards, everything be put put in writing. We will not entertain any further phone calls to avoid a prejudicing ourselves, tell them this on your last call and put that in writing.

It's not often it comes to this, but you need to accept that you simply can not reason with unreasonable people, end of. You offered to do the right thing, not good enough.

Also, once threatened with legal action we take the attitude that they will not renege on that and follow it thru, so don't make anymore offers. Wait till the court action and the mediation may settle the matter before court.

You may say this is calling their bluff, I prefer to say that you need to fight fire with fire and not reacting to blackmail.

 

 

this

 

and as i said in an earlier post write all details down just in case she lba's

of course the engines going to go pop tommorrow anyway,you did do the oil and filter?

[have a word with the wife 299]

be carefull here, tread carefully,  your comment   "it was sold as seen without any warranty"  could backfire on you in any court action [ think about it, the judge sees this or its brought to his attention and your on a downer straightaway].

question for you, you say the =   (the car is being used by a learner driver) 

was this pointed out to you at time of sale ?

was the daughter / son present at point of sale ?

did you infer the car was suitable to be used as a learner car [ note, most warranties specifically dont cover for learner driving practises] 

see where i am going here ? 

something or someones spooked her re small claims, do the alternator only,

there seems to be a opinion on here, and i am not falling out with anybody, that the cheaper a car is the less rights the consumer has, this is wrong, very wrong, to stay a good trader, dont put sold as seen, do a pdi, with the full mot [ you did, well done] in actual fact the cheaper a car is, there will be more problems, and the cheaper a car is seems to attract the screamers anyway, good luck 

[Arfur Dealy 823]

1 hour ago, tradex said:

As Arthur said plus one, in all in the details, some customers will rape you given the chance, which is a shame for the good ones.

Regarding her change in stance:-

Everyone deals with these things differently, we are firm but very fair, maybe we are wrong.

With us once a customer has threatened legal proceedings, we then insist that from that point onwards, everything be put put in writing. We will not entertain any further phone calls to avoid a prejudicing ourselves, tell them this on your last call and put that in writing.

It's not often it comes to this, but you need to accept that you simply can not reason with unreasonable people, end of. You offered to do the right thing, not good enough.

Also, once threatened with legal action we take the attitude that they will not renege on that and follow it thru, so don't make anymore offers. Wait till the court action and the mediation may settle the matter before court.

You may say this is calling their bluff, I prefer to say that you need to fight fire with fire and not reacting to blackmail.

 

 

+1