Customer reporting problems outside warranty?

[Christian 1]

I sold a car with a 30 day warranty (which I know isn't much but I'm only getting started and its better than nothing!) and the customer has come back 3 months after buying to tell me the head gasket is blown. I know that the head gasket was replaced by my mechanic before selling. Technical details of why it has failed again aside, I'm not sure what I should do in this situation as the customer is obviously not happy but is clearly hoping I will take it back for a refund out of goodwill. Has anyone any similar experience or can give me any advice on where I stand or what I should do?

[It's me 615]

did you tell the customer it had had a head gasket prior to purchase for starters

[Arfur Dealy 823]

If you have a full independent inspection stating the car was all good then you've covered yourself, the customer would have to prove the fault was there are the point of sale (that's only for 30 days). Fare wear and tear is not covered by the CRA  

[Max Branning 149]

What is the car?

How much did it sell for?

Did you PDI the car before sale?

Do you know how much mileage has been covered since it left you?

[It's me 615]

you are both forgetting that if he told customer it had a new gasket then you would assume it would last more than 3 months and so would a judge 

so please let the seller answer the question or its just a waste of time

[trade vet 702]

Hi Christian 

If you can provide all the information,we ' hard boiled traders' may be able to tell you how you can turn a defeat into a victory !

[Pip 12]

1 hour ago, Christian said:

I sold a car with a 30 day warranty (which I know isn't much but I'm only getting started and its better than nothing!) and the customer has come back 3 months after buying to tell me the head gasket is blown. I know that the head gasket was replaced by my mechanic before selling. Technical details of why it has failed again aside, I'm not sure what I should do in this situation as the customer is obviously not happy but is clearly hoping I will take it back for a refund out of goodwill. Has anyone any similar experience or can give me any advice on where I stand or what I should do?

Take it on the chin and repair it. The law never seems to be on our side. I had a guy come back last week with a V 40 I sold him in May wanting a new alternator. I fitted  it today. Really isn't worth the hassle and could cost you a lot more in the end. Good luck.

[Row 71]

I would explain that he had a 30 day warranty but you will repair it out of goodwill, that's what I would do myself in the same situation.

[have a word with the wife 299]

2 hours ago, Pip said:

Take it on the chin and repair it. The law never seems to be on our side. 

read the cra and you will see it is ! Repair it ? what if its unrepairable ? head already skimmed to max ? then refund ? 

[andymc1973 199]

we/you have no chance if it goes to court

[XFS 70]

I don't accept that the dealer is always in the wrong and I will stand my ground.

If the cars right when it goes out and I,m confident my cars are, and the customer has declined an extended warranty, then after the statutory 30 day period they are on their own within reason. A head gasket goes 6 weeks after purchase and the customer has the right attitude I,ll probably repair it, after 3 months I would offer a contribution. Again depending on attitude, but I would not feel under obligation to do so.

We need to stand up for ourselves.

[Jimbo 11]

What is the general rule on this to cover yourself?

how can we be 100% sure the car is fine? A fresh mot?

 

what if a clutch goes after 2 months for example?

[have a word with the wife 299]

JIMBO

ANY warranty is in addition to a consumers rights, it doesnt replace them.

a full pdi and fresh mot on EVERY car sold, the pdi sheet to be shown to consumer and signed that he/she read it.

consumers must test drive / driven in  car before sale. 

a substantial sales invoice should be produced [ forget sold as seen trade sale etc] and signed.

what if a clutch goes after 2 months for example? then you go back to the pdi and sales invoice and test drive !

PDI = the clutch was consistent with a * year old ***** mileage car!  [signed for]

ON the test drive the clutch showed no faults [ signed for]

on the sales invoice no faults were brought to your attention [ signed for ] ! 

I UNDERSTAND I AM PURCHASING A USED CAR THAT MAY HAVE FAULTS CONSISTENT WITH A USED ITEM ! 

23 minutes ago, XFS said:

I don't accept that the dealer is always in the wrong and I will stand my ground.

If the cars right when it goes out and I,m confident my cars are, and the customer has declined an extended warranty, then after the statutory 30 day period they are on their own within reason. A head gasket goes 6 weeks after purchase and the customer has the right attitude I,ll probably repair it, after 3 months I would offer a contribution. Again depending on attitude, but I would not feel under obligation to do so.

We need to stand up for ourselves.

[BHM 994]

 

15 hours ago, s and b said:

you are both forgetting that if he told customer it had a new gasket then you would assume it would last more than 3 months and so would a judge 

so please let the seller answer the question or its just a waste of time

Christian doesn't seem very forthcoming with his information.......... 

It could be an old knacker sold for for £200 or it could be a £200000's worth of Ferrari.

[Christian 1]

Sorry guys, didnt get any emails so I thought this thread hadnt any replies! Appreciate everyones input! Its a 2008 Astra 1.4 Petrol with 61k when sold and it has done 3k miles because I was told it has 64k now. Sold at £1700. My two options are to either pay at least half of the cost of repair or offer the customer the money back but surely not a full refund, I was hoping to maybe offer a buy back at £1500? His mechanic told him it needs a new engine...most mechanics seem too quick to say that if they either cant be bothered or cant work out whats wrong.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Christian

[It's me 615]

4 hours ago, tradex said:

In general I Can't see that flying in court with a failed head gasket in 3 months, but your mileage may differ? A full independant inspection, always a good practice, but needs to be fully independant with receipted invoice to show in court, to have a slim chance, even then....

We pressure check our cooling systems to 1.5 bar, also do a CO2 sniff and note the results on the PDI form, but I think we maybe in the minority in doing these checks, I guess it helps if the worst happended?

We have caught a few issues early with the pressure check, usually a failing water pump or cracked thermostat housings. Cheaper than loosing all the coolant and a cooked engine. Pressure check kit is only £70 and one of the best investments we have made.

We also note tyre treads on all five tyres, if fitted.

i stopped doing this because at 15psi on some cars it might just blow the radiator or pump seals

better in my opinion is to check all levels go for mot let it stand with engine running while mot man has a fag and trips on the pipe hear fan cut in (get it on your pdi sheet) get it back to base and once cooler check for any coolant loss and or leaks

i only use my pressure tester if leak known but cant find

[grant8064 219]

4 minutes ago, s and b said:

while mot man has a fag and trips on the pipe

I didn't know we got ours done at the same place? 

[trade vet 702]

6 hours ago, Christian said:

Sorry guys, didnt get any emails so I thought this thread hadnt any replies! Appreciate everyones input! Its a 2008 Astra 1.4 Petrol with 61k when sold and it has done 3k miles because I was told it has 64k now. Sold at £1700. My two options are to either pay at least half of the cost of repair or offer the customer the money back but surely not a full refund, I was hoping to maybe offer a buy back at £1500? His mechanic told him it needs a new engine...most mechanics seem too quick to say that if they either cant be bothered or cant work out whats wrong.

£1500 definitely not.Politeley point out that you have taken advice, a refund would be based  on HMRC mileage rates which are 45p per mile and that they have used it for 3 months and travelled 3000 miles.However, you are willing to ignore that and make a goodwill gesture so I would say offer £1200 or if they want to buy another car you will raise this to £1400.Give the punter 2 days to make up their mind up or you will withdraw your offer.This usually works for me .You can then sort out the Astra and probably get a bit more for it. You will get used to this sort of thing !

[BHM 994]

Assuming he doesn't know you had the head gasket changed then he'd be getting well & truly sacked off here.

3 months on a 9 year old Astra & he thinks he's coming back - no chance.

However if you advised him of your (pisspoor) repair then it's fair to say he has a point. However (again) how many people follow it through to the courts?? 

Finally, why are you offering warranties on cheap 9 year old cars? I've not offered a warranty in over 5 years & on the few occasions I've been asked about them I say "no but your statutory rights aren't affected". When I started trading it took me a year or two to realise punters took a warranty if it was free but they didn't want to pay for it. You giving warranties on old bangers is asking for comebacks (I'll await the comments from those perpetuating the myth that you have to warrant cars).

[Arfur Dealy 823]

5 minutes ago, BHM said:

Assuming he doesn't know you had the head gasket changed then he'd be getting well & truly sacked off here.

3 months on a 9 year old Astra & he thinks he's coming back - no chance.

However if you advised him of your (pisspoor) repair then it's fair to say he has a point. However (again) how many people follow it through to the courts?? 

Finally, why are you offering warranties on cheap 9 year old cars? I've not offered a warranty in over 5 years & on the few occasions I've been asked about them I say "no but your statutory rights aren't affected". When I started trading it took me a year or two to realise punters took a warranty if it was free but they didn't want to pay for it. You giving warranties on old bangers is asking for comebacks (I'll await the comments from those perpetuating the myth that you have to warrant cars).

Agreed, in 31 years I have never offered a warranty... Absolutely no need to on older cars.

Mr Customer, no Insurance company will cover wear an tear, without weaseling out of it. Your Consumer Rights states clearly wear n tear inst covered. When you buy a car year's past its manufacturers warranty it is your responsibility to take ownership / repair and maintain it. All of my cars are freshly MOT'd and independently inspected to insure they are fit for purpose at the point of sale........You take Mr Customer responsibility from there on  

[grant8064 219]

3 minutes ago, BHM said:

When I started trading it took me a year or two to realise punters took a warranty if it was free but they didn't want to pay for it. You giving warranties on old bangers is asking for comebacks (I'll await the comments from those perpetuating the myth that you have to warrant cars).

+1

Just had a good, if frustrating, conversation with our warranty supplier as to why we don't upsell 12 months like the supermarkets. 

@Christian - Sounds like you sold it too cheaply IMO and didn't do enough pre-sale checking, especially if you've had head issues with the car pre-sale.

Charge more for decent cars and simply don't retail stuff you suspect might go pop.

[andymc1973 199]

when i was speaking to trading standards the other week (decent bloke actually) he was of the opinion magistates always side against us

[BHM 994]

27 minutes ago, andymc1973 said:

when i was speaking to trading standards the other week (decent bloke actually) he was of the opinion magistates always side against us

Yes, I get the impression that judges generally feel a certain amount of sympathy with the plaintiff based on the thinking that if they've taken it "all of the way" and waited 6 months-ish then they must have a claim. However I always assume that any disagreement won't end up there - it's generally too much hassle.

I once "sat across the table" and despite the whole court building (not just the room) being a mobile phone free zone the judge allowed the claimant to switch on his phone & search for various facts - not once, not twice, but three frigging times! You can guess which way the judgement went . However I still won't bend over backwards & give the chancers short shrift - the idiots phoning 12 moths later whinging about their MOT & service. 

[trade vet 702]

1 hour ago, andymc1973 said:

when i was speaking to trading standards the other week (decent bloke actually) he was of the opinion magistates always side against us

Yes they can be very nice and off they go.Then a few weeks later they return carrying folders and you know you have a problem.

Dont get me started on those guys !

[justina3 518]

9 hours ago, trade vet said:

Yes they can be very nice and off they go.Then a few weeks later they return carrying folders and you know you have a problem.

Dont get me started on those guys !

is there anyone you havent had a problem with