Trade sale issue

[Ocsltd 133]

1 minute ago, MrC said:

Why do people still think this gets them a better deal?

 

Because they're retarded, much like their spelling!!

[MattR 177]

Avoiding selling on ebay and the likes is an absolute must for me. I wont claim to be a busy man however I really dont want to deal with any of the idiots who are frequently discussed on this forum. So I have found a few people who are more than willing to do so to supplement their regular job. So find yourself a plastic trader or 2 that you can build a relationship with.

Go to your local industrial estate and find the car with a price board on and ring him, if he's a local mechanic or similar he may want to have a couple on the side. Suss out if he's likely to be a whinger or not. Lots of workshops and bodyshops will have people who do a couple of cars on the side, you need to find these people. Lots of them will happily work to earn a hundred or so quid, because if youre on 20k, an extra £100 a week goes a long way. And if they start giving you grief, go and find someone else. Theres plenty of them out there, you just need to know where to look.

[BHM 994]

Very good idea for those who don’t like dealing in shite.

However there’s money in shite & often you can turn £250 into £1000 or a £600er into £1395. I like the GOOD shite that comes in as p/xs or I buy from lazy main dealers who can’t be arsed to wash the car or look in the glovebox for the FSH with a fresh MOT. 

You can’t buy shite at the block (God knows how anyone makes any money without killing or shafting over buyers) but there’s plenty of it available if you’re prepared to sift through it, drive it, prep it & advertise it correctly.

[Arfur Dealy 823]

There's easy money in the bangers !! 

[It's me 615]

1 hour ago, twerp said:

Seriously how many are left that don't send the lot to BCA or DA ?

to be fair bhm comes from the north east where most people think beamish is a new town 

[BHM 994]

2 hours ago, twerp said:

Seriously how many are left that don't send the lot to BCA or DA ?

A few, admittedly they’ve all almost gone. Also if you’re lucky on DA you’ll have a local dealer you can usually rely upon to underdescribe the good points due to them being lazy ba*****s (makes a change to the usual shysters on DA!).

 

2 hours ago, Arfur Dealy said:

There's easy money in the bangers !! 

People turn up their noses but personally, as a man with next to no overheads, I’d happily just knock out 2 or 3 p/x turds every week. A trader laughed at one of my £999 gems, until I showed him the invoice for the £100 it cost me. It’d be lovely putting £3K across everything as many claim to do, but those cars don’t sell immediately and there are always big overheads to consider. 

1 hour ago, chief nut job said:

to be fair bhm comes from the north east where most people think beamish is a new town 

I’m frightened of the new window tax I’ve heard is coming in - I’ve started bricking ours up.

[Rory RSC 596]

9 hours ago, BHM said:

 

People turn up their noses but personally, as a man with next to no overheads, I’d happily just knock out 2 or 3 p/x turds every week. A trader laughed at one of my £999 gems, until I showed him the invoice for the £100 it cost me. It’d be lovely putting £3K across everything as many claim to do, but those cars don’t sell immediately and there are always big overheads to consider. 

 

Couldn't care less if its a £999 car or a £30k car profits profit.  Always retail the PX's that are safe to do so. Some of my biggest profits come from them.

[Trident 24]

On 02/06/2016 at 2:03 PM, Max Branning said:

This is what concerns me Umesh. But how far do you need to go here, You could ask for proof of insurance or trade plates or Vat number but at the end of the day if someone agrees to your T&Cs and signs a receipt which clearly states TRADE SALE INVOICE and asks for a BUSINESS name and address then surely that is enough. 

Its bad enough when the retail customers come back but when the traders come back its a piss take. I have never complained about any car i have bought either online or from auction, yes its a pain when you get a lemon but you just take it on the chin, part of the game.

 

Due dilligence, if you have proof, ie traders policy matching log book details, your covered all the way, by him buying from an ad that states trade sale only, the court will view that as you negating your CRA responsibility...it is on you to prove you sold to the trade and took dilligent steps to prove it was a trade to trade sale - that is your 'get out of jail' card, no proof its your word against his, and history should tell you that you wont win...

[BHM 994]

I write clearly on my proper shitter adverts (usually p/xs beyond help or cheap shite locally via Dealer Auction that I can flip quick for a fast buck) that the buyer either takes;

A) as a trade sale, proof required, copy of proofs taken, log book given etc. OR

as a retail sale, sold for repair, no warranty given or implied, instructed to trailer away, log book dealt with on site.

Getting ANYONE to sign as trade without taking copies of proof is a waste of time if something bad happens. Until recently I used to just take the money, sling the buyer the keys, no receipt & tell them not to contact me again but I realised that there are more & more imbeciles buying on price alone who are just hoping the car will be ok.

I suspect at the back of some of these characters’ minds is they’ll return if a disaster happens, unfortunately even I’ve realised that nowadays a man’s word is no longer good enough.

Now if the advert hasn’t put them off, or my straight talk hasn’t put them off then they still have the mental hurdle in signing their rights away - it concentrates a few minds. I actually get people on the phone trying negotiate out my “trailered away” terms!

 

[Andy Entwistle 96]

Hi All, sorry for the late reply to this thread, but I put this question to the Chief Exec of Trading Standards for his views. As  result the head of policy has sent me the following ..

There were some changes to sale of goods law in recent year such that the protections for business to consumer sales (B2C) contracts were stripped out of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and are now enshrined in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA).  These consumer rights were clarified and extended under the CRA.

 

However that means the provisions on business to business B2B contracts remain within the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and business sellers are under an obligation to ensure that the goods they sell to other businesses are as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality, taking into account the description of the goods, the price, and all other relevant information.    The business buyer’s remedy where that is not the case is to sue for breach of contract of one of these implied terms or another contractual term (or misrepresentation)

 

That said, the law deems B2B to be on a more even negotiating field, and the business seller can expressly exclude these terms from the contract, but this would have to be in the original agreement. (this cannot happen in B2C contracts – hence why ‘sold as seen’ was banned).  

 

So, business sellers are still under obligations to their business buyers for the above, unless they specifically exclude the provisions of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 by agreement.

 

In summary, we would say that it would be good practice/due diligence to ensure that B2B contracts only take place where such contracts are normally formed, i.e. trade forums/auctions/sites.   In that way there is no risk that an innocent consumer purchaser will buy a deathtrap.  To be clear, the law doesn’t simply allow B2B to rip each other off and if there is a breach of contract, i.e. something is misdescribed or completely faulty, then the business buyer can still sue, based on the agreed terms of the contract.

 

We are working with National Trading Standards to update Guidance for the second hand car market on such issues.  

 

I am going to keep in touch with them and maybe get more clarity on how we ensure that we are covered via a public forum if the buyer purports to be trade, but I thought I would share this

 

I will also try to get them to one of our upcoming events. We're hoping to announce some breakfast clubs in tehnear future which will take place around the country...

 

Andy

 

[It's me 615]

27 minutes ago, tradex said:

"innocent consumer purchaser will buy a deathtrap"

ok yes thats a bit pathetic but in the bigger picture 

and to be fair to Andy

thank you for taking the time to get some clarification and i look forward to seeing some further details from these govt depts in writing

 

[Rory RSC 596]

9 minutes ago, chief nut job said:

 

and to be fair to Andy

thank you for taking the time to get some clarification and i look forward to seeing some further details from these govt depts in writing

 

+1 Actually having a body to get some clearing up around consumer rights acts of used cars would be massively welcomed as anyone on the receiving end of a misinformed complaint following a customers call with the idiots at the citizens advice helpline will be fully aware.

[MattR 177]

18 minutes ago, Rory RSC said:

+1 Actually having a body to get some clearing up around consumer rights acts of used cars would be massively welcomed as anyone on the receiving end of a misinformed complaint following a customers call with the idiots at the citizens advice helpline will be fully aware.

+2. Be nice to have something to be forwarded to Citizens advice bureau too!

[Andy Entwistle 96]

I'm looking to set up a meeting, once I have something sorted I'll drop a post on here to collect questions....

..... and of course ask how we get rid of deathtraps....

 

:-)

 

[David Ayers 171]

1 minute ago, Andy Entwistle said:

I'm looking to set up a meeting, once I have something sorted I'll drop a post on here to collect questions....

..... and of course ask how we get rid of deathtraps....

 

:-)

 

Desperate to get rid of the 911 then.

[Andy Entwistle 96]

9 minutes ago, David Ayers said:

Desperate to get rid of the 911 then.

any which way..... :-)

[BHM 994]

6 hours ago, Andy Entwistle said:

I'm looking to set up a meeting, once I have something sorted I'll drop a post on here to collect questions....

Hats off you you, you’ve done very well to get some answers.

To be honest from my own selfish point of view I’d like something in black & white stating exactly what should be written in selling a spares or repair vehicle to Joe Public. I’m not on about shafting someone over, I’m on about making it absolutely clear & all above board to the buyer that there are no returns.

At the moment whenever I have one to sell my adverts CLEARLY state no warranty, no returns, sold as seen for rectification, buyer instructed to trailer away. The invoices also have ALL of these ‘points’ written on it with “I have been instructed to trailer away” in the signature box for Joe Public to sign underneath it.

Obviously what Joe Public do with THEIR car after they’ve paid me is legally beyond my control because I believe withholding of someone else’s property is called ‘theft’. 

[It's me 615]

5 minutes ago, BHM said:

Hats off you you, you’ve done very well to get some answers.

To be honest from my own selfish point of view I’d like something in black & white stating exactly what should be written in selling a spares or repair vehicle to Joe Public. I’m not on about shafting someone over, I’m on about making it absolutely clear & all above board to the buyer that there are no returns.

At the moment whenever I have one to sell my adverts CLEARLY state no warranty, no returns, sold as seen for rectification, buyer instructed to trailer away. The invoices also have ALL of these ‘points’ written on it with “I have been instructed to trailer away” in the signature box for Joe Public to sign underneath it.

Obviously what Joe Public do with THEIR car after they’ve paid me is legally beyond my control because I believe withholding of someone else’s property is called ‘theft’. 

and just to confirm the above as they are leaving i like to put a pickaxe in their roof

[imiksimi 0]

Seriously this all does my head in,

I'm not a trader, but I often buy spares and repairs / " trade cars " / ebay auctions

To find traders are getting hassled from domestic buyers on cheap cars is quite ridiculous. If I go to buy or bid to buy anything under 3k I expect the next stop in the car is a garage to have it checked over and repaired. What the hell is wrong with people, you'll buy an Iphone for 1k but expect a working car for less than 3k, are you mad ?.

What does my head in is this does directly affect me as am willing to buy a car for what it is, If I bid at any auction ebay or otherwise, I'll go pay and collect ... no test drive .. no nonsense, If I wanted a test drive I should has asked before auction ended in my eyes. But with the nanny state backing these morons it leaves me worse off. As lots of Traders won't dare sell to domestic.

I'd rather pay £1000 and buy say a " Bad " Focus ST2 off a trader and take it to a garage and maybe spend £1500 - £2000 sorting it 

Then buy a £3500 private that is in pretty much the same condition and will need the same repairs a year or so later. 

and nope it doesn't always end well , bought a focus for £255 that blew its gearbox after 6 months , So rang scrap yard told them they could have it left V5 in glove box and taxi to work..... but wait that means it cost £42.50 a month and had heated windscreen and was about as nippy as you'll ever need. So really a bargain and yes granted it could have done this on the way home from buying it... but that would just be tough for me as £255 for a car is a stupid price.

So basically does this mean it's the end of me buying cheap runabouts and fixing up the lucky ones and scraping the bad ones, all because everybody wants something for nothing and the government is backing them up ? nice, because in the end I think I pay about the same as everybody else in the long run except I know what works been done and by who. Shame cause my friends that buy the lucky ones off me after am bored of them will be gutted. 

[Mark101 536]

9 minutes ago, imiksimi said:

Seriously this all does my head in,

I'm not a trader, but I often buy spares and repairs / " trade cars " / ebay auctions

To find traders are getting hassled from domestic buyers on cheap cars is quite ridiculous. If I go to buy or bid to buy anything under 3k I expect the next stop in the car is a garage to have it checked over and repaired. What the hell is wrong with people, you'll buy an Iphone for 1k but expect a working car for less than 3k, are you mad ?.

What does my head in is this does directly affect me as am willing to buy a car for what it is, If I bid at any auction ebay or otherwise, I'll go pay and collect ... no test drive .. no nonsense, If I wanted a test drive I should has asked before auction ended in my eyes. But with the nanny state backing these morons it leaves me worse off. As lots of Traders won't dare sell to domestic.

I'd rather pay £1000 and buy say a " Bad " Focus ST2 off a trader and take it to a garage and maybe spend £1500 - £2000 sorting it 

Then buy a £3500 private that is in pretty much the same condition and will need the same repairs a year or so later. 

and nope it doesn't always end well , bought a focus for £255 that blew its gearbox after 6 months , So rang scrap yard told them they could have it left V5 in glove box and taxi to work..... but wait that means it cost £42.50 a month and had heated windscreen and was about as nippy as you'll ever need. So really a bargain and yes granted it could have done this on the way home from buying it... but that would just be tough for me as £255 for a car is a stupid price.

So basically does this mean it's the end of me buying cheap runabouts and fixing up the lucky ones and scraping the bad ones, all because everybody wants something for nothing and the government is backing them up ? nice, because in the end I think I pay about the same as everybody else in the long run except I know what works been done and by who. Shame cause my friends that buy the lucky ones off me after am bored of them will be gutted. 

Nice post - you're welcome to buy any of my PX's with that sensible and honest approach - good on you my "non-trader" friend.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Mark101

[Dealer 54]

On 19/06/2018 at 6:01 PM, MattR said:

Avoiding selling on ebay and the likes is an absolute must for me. I wont claim to be a busy man however I really dont want to deal with any of the idiots who are frequently discussed on this forum. So I have found a few people who are more than willing to do so to supplement their regular job. So find yourself a plastic trader or 2 that you can build a relationship with.

Go to your local industrial estate and find the car with a price board on and ring him, if he's a local mechanic or similar he may want to have a couple on the side. Suss out if he's likely to be a whinger or not. Lots of workshops and bodyshops will have people who do a couple of cars on the side, you need to find these people. Lots of them will happily work to earn a hundred or so quid, because if youre on 20k, an extra £100 a week goes a long way. And if they start giving you grief, go and find someone else. Theres plenty of them out there, you just need to know where to look.

Bang on! I've got plenty of "banger boys" down my way, leave it to them to rat out all the sh1tters that we don't retail and they are happy to earn a few quid on the side. Best way all round for me as i don't want people coming to the forecourt either and there's no links back to us too. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Dealer

[Rory RSC 596]

2 hours ago, Dealer said:

Bang on! I've got plenty of "banger boys" down my way, leave it to them to rat out all the sh1tters that we don't retail and they are happy to earn a few quid on the side. Best way all round for me as i don't want people coming to the forecourt either and there's no links back to us too. 

Used to have a traveller fella that would buy all of ours at fair money and never hear from him again and a great local auction. 

Getting rid of the bangers is a nightmare these days. 

[L-P 15]

2 hours ago, Rory RSC said:

Getting rid of the bangers is a nightmare these days. 

I sell all my non retail PX through Full Auction. No sellers fees at the moment and I have always made reserve even though the volume of cars listed is quite low. There are a fair few regulars on there.

[BHM 994]

On 28/02/2019 at 8:49 AM, Rory RSC said:

Getting rid of the bangers is a nightmare these days. 

I love a banger or two. At my end of the market I rub my hands in excitement at a shit p/x. Tbh though, you do have to be rough with the punters & brutal with the adverts otherwise all of the cretins swarm around thinking they’re getting a Kia-style 7 year warranty.