Gavin@Rousdon

I look on that forum from time to time and topics like this make me laugh!! Bad salesmen lie whilst good ones don't need to. Whereas even 'good' customers can be economical with the truth.

Maybe a couple of big dealer groups have pulled out, special offers have come to an end and people haven't renewed. It does seems a large drop off but they are in a market fighting Autotrader so unless what they are offering is too good to not have they will always be the first victim when a business looks to cost cut. How much is 'Motors@ a month to use? Does anyone know?

Andy, South West Wheels in Exeter are very good but I'm guessing they may be a bit far away for you. www.southwestwheelrepairs.com Don't let the poor(ish) website put you off Bob has always done a great job but you always have to wait a bit to get them in. Have you a picture of the wheels? Is it just a standard refurb? No different colours etc etc?

I think where site like Dealer Auction etc are winning over ATM is that they (DA & Sytner etc) requires a degree of effort from the seller in the way of loading on pictures, writing about the vehicle etc. Whilst ATM had these people were very lazy about using them and it was mainly written text on a screen, trying to get hold of the sellers to ask any questions could be a painful process to. I imagine garages who put the effort into making good adverts on DA & Sytner sell more car through it. It seems a picture can tell a 1000 words!!!

Why just the younger class Andy? I would say most the lazy unemployed who are happy to sit on benefits are of the middle aged to older class with their fictitious bad backs and legs. Think about the last time you got poor service and I bet it would be from a middle aged person rather then a young person who was trying but hadn't got the experience to deliver.

You could try 'Trade Outs', same idea as ATM but thet were a lot cheaper. saying that I didn't have much success with them but they do seem to have grown a bit since. As for buying have you tried Dealer-Auction and Sytner Auction websites? Both good ways of sourcing stock, Sytner Auction is free but Dealer Auction costs £99 and £25 buyers fee on every car. As for selling trade stock I find local traders, ebay'er etc are the best bet, you have to deal with moans and groans from them but they come to you and you get paid there and then without waiting for someone who may or may not show.

I would imagine a serious review would have more bearing on how a car sells rather then a 'entertainment' review written by someone like Jeremy Clarkson or Chris Evans. I remember it used to be the same with music magazines, ask someone who's trying to be cool and cutting edge to review the lastest Coldplay album and it will get slatted no matter how good or bad, ask them to review the lastest 'folk electro' from a North Korean Brass Band and its will get 5 stars.

I'm guess that all us dealers who hold a consumer credit licence have gained interim permission by now, which seem to be the easy part of the process. I've just downloaded the note for applying - 38 pages !! and the sample Authorisation form - 56 pages !!! Has anyone else done the same or even applied yet? I guessing car dealers will need to apply for 'Full Permission'. After that I'm getting stumped trying to find out exactly what my company requires, should I have an auditor, who can be my locum etc etc. Am I being naive thinking I can fill this form out myself or should I employ a company to help me?? or am I making it harder then it really is?? Any advise welcome !! P.S I maybe be wrong but it seems I only need 'Limited Permission' as a car dealer !!! Can anyone confirm this???

Charging the sales department the full rate was also used to bring down the salesperson commission if they were on 10% of the profit in the deal.

For it to work you would have to split your business into sales and workshop, with spearate tax returns and different VAT numbers. Its your choice to sell cars, if you chose to have technicians working on sales car rather the more profitable retail work then thats your choice. The expense is the persons wage, what he could or couldn't earn you has no bearing on the cost of running you business. Internal labour charges tell you how profitable each part of your business is but they are internal and are of zero interest to the taxman. The way you are thinking means we could decide a technician is worth £60 per hour, get him to do nothing for 40 hours at a cost of say £400 (£10per hour) then reduce our business's profit by that week by £2400 (40x£60 per hour). We can't just make up an expense without paying it, its called tax evasion!!

In fairness to the guy with the car advertised for £9495 if he had fully prepped it, serviced and MOT'ed in may own him £8700 ish, he want's a bit of profit so says £9000, if its a case of driving it to your customer and take £500 profit it may not be a bad deal. With the Audi guy I very much doubt he was driving the car (maybe he was on the way to pick it up) and was just guessing off the top of his head, once he saw the car was to embarassed to speak to you or admit his mistake. ATM was always full of people like that and sounds like it still is. They use it as a way to value a car then sell it locally once they know a baseline price. I do wonder how many old fashioned traders are still around, I'm a little in the sticks and haven't come across one in years, which is fine as I tend to keep myself to myself and the stuff I stock is BMW's, Mini'sand German vehicles (maybe not what traders like to deal in, who knows)!! I think with the internet and ATM people noticed you may deal with someone once then never again, so the level of honesty dropped because repeat business wasn't the way it worked. Same with dealer auction now, a garage could upset 20 people in the trade yet still carry on selling to the 100's of other who used the system.

Problem with a lot of sponsorships is that they solely want your money and rarely do any of the people connected to the team become customers. The only time I would consider a sponsorship was if I was approached by a very good customer, that way its more of a goodwill payment then a payment in hope of some return.

Sorry for cutting and pasting from another topic!!! You can ask them if they plan to change the way 'Trade Plates' work and are issued. Maybe a system that we can text the reg number of the car we are driving on trade plates so it gets logged onto a database. No need then to carry plates around with us and it won't flash up as an untaxed on ANPR camera's. Also as the largest number of un-taxed cars will be sitting on dealers forecourts why do they seem so unwilling to engage with us. In most cases we will be educating customer on the new system, if we are in the dark then their phonelines are going to be overloaded. Why not give the customer the opinion of leaving the remaining tax on the car? A simple tick box could save a lot of work for all. Also do they plan to overhaul the cherished transfer system, yet again another product that us dealers do for (their) customers yet it causes us issues. The system doesn't work for dealers with part exchange cars. There must be an easier way. Why not talk to us and develope a system that is user friendly for everyone. Also are the planning to make the V5 an electronic document? In this day and age it seems crazy that we have to wait 6 weeks for a V5.

Maybe is time for the UK Govenment and the EU to bring in a 'Business Protection Act', a simple act where a business is legaly entitled to charge a customer for time spent on figthing flase claims. It would make the customer more open minded to what a product should do and why it does it. Half the problem with car is that they are so complex, you buy most items i.e clothing, food and even white goods and its easy to see if it's right or not. If a TV turns on then turns itself off it's not right, but if a modern car does it (start/stop) it's normal. Certain customers get fearfull when faced with new technology and when a car acts differnet to what they are used to it becomes a 'fault' in there minds. A good hand over when they pick up their new car helps but most gets forgotten once they drive off, sell VW Passat and most people worry so much about the electric handbrake the other features of the car arn't worth going into detail about. We have all had it before when a customer returns with a list of 'fault' which turn out to be just items requiring a bit of education.

I'm guessing it will be the same formula that we see with all these programmes. A business struggling because the owner has lost interest, won't let younger family members push it forward or just hasn't embraced new technology. The answer will be freshen up the site/showroom, a family arguement, a change of advertising involving a new website or an vast improvement on the one they have, another arguement, getting everyone smartly dressed and to stop smoking in the sales office, walking around the local town with flyers and various sales aids (this part is always undertaken by the shyest or less confident member of the business to add cringe factor). The end result is more sales. I very much doubt they will chose a business that is struggling because the cars are such a poor standard and their attitude to after sales is as criminal and the people who run the business.

I was having the same conversation with a customer a few weeks ago, he pointed out that most convertibles are 4 seaters and after running off all the ones we could think of we came to the conclusion he was right!! Don't know if any of the new bigger MErc's or BMW 6 Series have 5 seats but it seems 4 is the standard.

Chris, I may of come across as sounding a little harsh in my replies but trading standards would really come down hard if they feel its a safety issue. It's well worth reading through the OFT guidance, at least then you get the gist of what you can and can't get away with. Also I find most the time everyone is happier once the problem is resolved and the customer is happy

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402142426/http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf Page 24 onwards may help you. http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402142426/http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1242.pdf Page 6 shows that a MOT will not be considered a suitable check for roadworthyness

If it was me I would get the car back and check it out. You can't always see brake pads when you MOt a car so therefore you can't fail them. Also trading standards would expect you to carry out a PDI on a car before selling it which would include removing the wheels to check the condition of the brakes. Also 700 miles is hardly any mileage, any court will expect a car to last more then 700 miles before devoloping a fault. Could the fault not be down to a seized brake caliper? If you haven't got your own workshop best to get a car to a trusted garage to look at it. I'm affraid it's not a grey area in my mind. Get the car sorted and apoligise to the customer. Trust me your reputation will be alot better for it.

The 'problem' if it because happen will just become accepted with people still buying none DAB cars and listening to CD's or iPod via USB or AUX connections. I've no doubt devices through these connections will somehow be able turn the radio a DAB radio in anycase. I think commercial radio stations will be more worried then car dealers because the cost of their advertising space will plumet if people can't listen to their station in a car. They could lose 20-40% of their daytime listeners overnight.

Deltapoint isn't bad as a guide to retail price but I'm guessing they get their data from average prices of whats advertised on Autotrade so the retail price they give can be misleading because it doesn't account for added extras (same as other price guides) and the fact that certain car supermarkets advertise cars that don't exsist at low prices to tempt people in.

I still use Glass's but there system is shocking, slow and prone to crashing. The CAP valuation anywhere is much better. But in all honesty I sure we all use the same system, look at CAP, Glass's and Deltapoint and start with the lowest price first!!!

You can ask them if they plan to change the way 'Trade Plates' work and are issued. Maybe a system that we can text the reg number of the car we are driving on trade plates so it gets logged onto a database. No need then to carry plates around with us and it won't flash up as an untaxed on ANPR camera's. Also as the largest number of un-taxed cars will be sitting on dealers forecourts why do they seem so unwilling to engage with us. In most cases we will be educating customer on the new system, if we are in the dark then their phonelines are going to be overloaded. Why not give the customer the opinion of leaving the remaining tax on the car? A simple tick box could slove a lot of work for all. Also do they plan to overhaul the cherished transfer system, yet again another product that us dealers do for (their) customers yet it causes us issues. The system doesn't work for dealers with part exchange cars. There must be an easier way. Why not talk to us and delevelop a system that is used friendly for everyone.

The only 'data and systems' us independent dealers need is 'profit'. Sometime I think Glass' Guide forget their lifeblood is independent dealers who need to know prices of a range of cars. You watch main dealers at auction and 'book' goes out the window. If they are selling the same product week in week out it's easy to know whats the right stock and what to pay. I read alot of these editorial articles and rarely finish them because it seems to be a world away from the motor trade I know.

Looks like we should still be able to tax vehicles at the post office using the 'Green Slip'. Then once the V5 is sent off the car and tax will be registered to the customer. Or we can give the green slip (V5C/2) to the customer when the pay a deposit on the car and leave it to them to sort out.