Gavin@Rousdon

Cheers Jim, at least CT's will still be straight(ish) forward. I'm guessing we need to make sure the customer doesn't log the vehicle as 'In trade' before the transfer is complete and lets hope the new CT forms don't ask for the tax disc serial number. Great work getting the answers Jim, really is a great help

Its a world of pain Andy!!! I've got a workshop and MOT station as part of the business so we run Bosch KTS as our diagnostic which cost about £159+VAT a month. Even then it doesn't cover and do everything you want. The main problem is that a standard scanner will read your P-Codes from 0000-1000 but manufacturers will have their own vehicle specific codes. Now a standard scanner won't always read these. If your planning on doing VW/Audi cars it's worth investing in VAG-COM at around £300 or Vauxhall Op-COM copies can be got for around £40 on ebay. I'm afraid you can't cover all bases without spending lots !!

CJ....how hard is it to drive the cars and write down what you notice? A few chips or lose undertray you can cover under the £100 extra for anything missed. A wheel bearing that deafens you or a loud knocking over the smallest bump are easy to notice. To say £100-£200 profit doesn't pay to check a vehicle smacks of arrogance, it take 5 mintues to drive the car and a few minutes to write it in a description. No one expects a full service just some honesty. Most of us non-main dealer types are spending our own money not a big dealer groups

Andy, the process you describe is one I have used before but using the V5C/2 at a post office. Now the DVLA still say we can tax at the Post Office so I'm guessing that the tax will become invalid in a new keeper isn't registered within a certain time limit. Seems reading the replies to Jim's questions that they have the power to make a fully paid Vehicle Tax invalid without giving a refund. Reading the answers above I can see Cherished Transfers becoming a problem if they a checking both cars are insured, are they really expecting customers to keep there new and old car insured whilst the transfer takes place? Or will we just end up putting the p/x on our MID list to ensure the process works. Also seems we have a new system for putting vehicles 'In Trade' on the 20th October, 7 weeks time. I'm guessing we will be told on the 19th October in line with the DVLA's communication policy !!!

I was more born into it then being driven by a great love of cars. My Dad ran his business from a workshop at our home, he got me a pair of overalls when I was about 5 years old and within 5 mins I had fallen down the pit, the warning signs were there already that I wasn't cut out to be a mechanic !! Despite cars being all around me since birth I was more interested in school forming a love of 'Maths', basicly I was good and quick with numbers (but did enjoy getting taken to the RAC rally each year!!!). Then I must of been about 9 years old and Dad for some reason took me to a salvage auction (I don't Health and Safety would allow 9 years olds there now). It was here I was introduced to a small book called 'Glass's Guide' which was like number porn to me !! I was taught how to price up repairs, paint etc on the damaged cars, work out what it could be sold for etc etc From then on I would beg to be taken and I was fairly good at getting my prices right, cars and damage were more straight forward back then, no airbags etc etc. From repairing salvage he moved onto selling a few non damaged car so its was off to ADT Auctions (Now BCA), same result, Glass's Guides and me working out figures, prices etc and getting in fairly near to the sale price. So with this love of auctions and buying cars I knew there was only one job for me.......I wanted to be an accountant !!! I never made it as an accountant, my Dad bought a garage/petrol station in Devon when I was 16, I gave up days at school to help him run it, getting paid £30 a week for 60 hours work!! He then tried to teach me to be a mechanic ignoring all the warning signs over my 17 years that it wasn't for me. I was left handed for a start so did everything 'the wrong way round'. To call it a disaster would be an understatement. I ended up in Australia and New Zealand just to get away from him !!!! The only good thing was that I sold a few cars off the forecourt and learnt how to run a business. Once I returned to England I got a job for a Hyundai dealership then a big used car dealer in Bournemouth which gave me the best education in selling cars I could. Time moved on and I rented the forecourt at Dad's garage and started my own business then a year later took the workshop off him. That was 11 years ago and I've not looked back. For me its the buying and running a business rather then cars and the selling!!! Still think I would have been a good accountant !!!!

Cheers Andy. I rang up the HMRC and got their standard answers, which only tells me what I know but not anything about the car!!! I'm guess from talking to the customer that this Ford Focus started life in Guernsey so will have to have VAT paid on it.

I tend to buy from BCA using BMW open and VWFS sales so most cars tend to be 'honest' cars and not there because of a host of faults. I use other online auctions, Sytner and DA and have had seem good buys but I dislike the way dealer try and hide behind the 'Don't mechaniclly check the car' line. I don't expect a full service but a 5 minute test drive and a look under the engine isn't that hard. I know ATM tried a process of public selling to the trade ran through autotrader but it seemed to have little success. It was their attempt to take on W.B.A.C. The idea of a customer bringing the car to me is great, you make an offer etc etc where is falls down is when you don't get an instant answer, I'm the customer will be going around various dealers etc. One of the reasons I refuse to underwrite is because i'm not prepare to sit on my money not knowing if a car is coming in or not.

Don't know if anyone can help or has any experience of this. Have a customer who lives in Guernsey wants to p/x his 2012 Ford Focus which he purchased 2nd hand from a dealer in Guernsey. Looking online it seems it may not be that simple as VAT may or may not have to be paid on the Focus. It seems that I have to use a NOVA Form or online system. Can anyone help or offer and advice? cheers!

I can't wait to here their explaination for this one. Have you phoned them Umesh? Mistakes happen, I can understand that but DVLA seem blind to the fact they aren't fit for purpose. Whilst I disagree with the over-reaction to the tax disc changes I feel that everytime the DVLA are faced with a challenge, be it a small issue with a cherished transfer or a massive roll out of a new system they address it in the worse and most unpractical manner. They clearly don't feel they are accountable to their customers especially the motor trade.

Sounds like a M32 gearbox to me!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Andy I've not used them but was pointed in their direction a few years ago when I had a problem with an A6 Multitronic Gearbox http://www.inde-tech.co.uk/

Its the registered owner's responsibility to send off the yellow slip, if the don't the car is still tax'ed and no refund issued. I get the feeling many rouge traders will understand this and do everything they can to keep hold of the V5C/3 promising to do it for the customer and never sending it off. Interesting that cars showing as in 'Trade' before 1st October will stay tax'ed until it expiries. I'm guessing we could all tax a car in September and run it for a year without registering it to ourselves. Going forward I've decided to register a car to the business (a 1 or 2 owner car) run it for 3-6 months then change it. I do feel for the genuine traders who for doing that isn't ideal but I feel more for the young/new people coming into the trade, driving a different car each night was one of the fun parts of the job when I was younger, almost an education in what can and will go wrong with cars!!!

GG, from if that happens before the 1st October the tax is still valid, if it happens on or after the 1st October the tax until December becomes invalid. Fire up the PC, get online and get it taxed!!!!! All whilst smiling sweetly to your customer!!

Maybe we could send an open letter via Car Dealer Magazine to the chief ex at DVLA expressing our concerns or maybe James & James could request an other interview (sorry to put on the CD people but your our link to the DVLA!!!) with a simple question. 'Car dealer sells car to customer, customer wants to drive away that day, salesperson and customer are sat in the office in front of a PC/iPad with V5C and V5C/2 etc(remembering the V5 will still be in the prevoius owners name)....how does the dealer tax the car so the buyer can drive away in the next 5 minutes????' A straight question that can't be bluffed. I agree the DVLA's communication with the trade has been awful. The lack of a cross over period is risky but did we really expect anymore from the DVLA?

Let not be dramatic about this please. You or the customer will be able to tax the car online using the V5C/2 (Green Slip), I'm guess by using a reference number on it, it may take all of 3 minutes if that. Quicker then driving to the Post Office I'm sure. www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes Also if cars are still passed to trade in the same manner via posting out a V5C/3 (Yellow Slip) it could take a week or so to for DVLA to process it meaning the P/X is still taxed for a short period, not idea be long enough to use the fuel that's left in it!! A simple online check will tell you if its still tax'ed. www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla Customers will be confused about the changes, if as sales people we explain and guide them through the process its a chance to build trust, explain the bonus that they will be getting refunded their old tax disc and how the refund may even cover the cost of the new tax!! Or do we prefer to just moan and tell them what a stupid system it is, how we don't understand it and leave them to work it out for themselves. Our issue is with the DVLA not our customers.

Stupid thing is that the one thing that should be updated is the yellow strip and how the vehicle is passed to trade. It must be a nightmare for DVLA to track a trade car because it could pass though many traders/forecourts/auctions before it is next registered but DVLA only have the original garage that took it in p/x. The trade is trusted enough to use the MID insurance database, the trade carries out MOT's so therefore uses the MOT database so why not allow us to use a DVLA version?

These people aren't stupid and I'm sure they realise that a profit can be made by refunding the present tax from the start of the next month and charging the new customer from the start of the present month, therefore getting paid twice. On a £20 tax disc this would earn them £1.66 but on a £480 tax disc in will earn them £40 !! If you said on average £10 over a million cars its a nice £10 extra!!! As for the interview, as James says these guy's are media trained and DVLA may have even asked to see the questions beforehand. The 'Trade' is an hassle to DVLA I guess, I'm sure the next problem will be ANPR camera's picking up untax'ed car being driven on trade plates but not being able to show if trade plates were showing in the vehicle or not. Lets brace ourselves for the letters that drop through the door.

If taken 2 car in part exchange that once belonged to Felicity Kendal (Renault 11 and a Mercedes 190) and have sold various cars to the actor that played 'Red Leader' in the orignal Star Wars films.

Hi Andy The are called Gearchange in Bridgwater, there number is 01278 722359 or www.gearchange.co.uk I think after claiming they were cheaper earlier in this topic other companies now are cheaper but Gearchange don't charge if the casing is damaged whereas others seem to add £200 for that. Also they are very professional only doing gearboxs they know they can repair properly. Also Andy I think the Vectra is an F40 gearbox not the M32, I maybe wrong but if you give them the reg number they can check.

I think its the set way these pieces are wrote, quoting the full name once then using the surname thereafter. A quick scan of the magazine and I can see this format is used in most the articles. I guess it just sounds a little strange when it's you own name and if like me you prefer using first names rather then Mr X or Surnames etc. As for the CRB/motorcycle, that just bad copy. As for page 3, sorry but what was on there this issue was far nicer!!!!!

Yes & No, dealers can't claim back road tax unless the car is registered to themselves. I'm guessing after 1st October once any demo's or pre reg cars are sold the dealer will automatically be refunded.

Reading Phillip's post it sounds like a bit of daylight robbery is going on. So any car that is taxed and passed to trade will become 'un-taxed' on the 1st October with NO refund given. Despite the trade not being able to claim a refund on a tax disc the fact that it is tax'ed may have added value onto the price of the car,for example a 4x4 or sports car taken in part ex in July with best part of a years road tax costing £475, a dealer may have allowed an extra £300 in p/x because the tax had a 'value' to it. Come October that value is wiped out. Not a problem if DVLA has told us 12 months ago this would be the case but it seems a little wrong that something can become worthless overnight with such little notice. Would be interesting if someone legally challenged the DVLA to recover the loss in value. Does the owner of the car own the tax, the last registered keeper, the DVLA? £millions worth of tax will become invalid and worthless overnight. Imagine if a car company pulled the same trick and said warranties were valid for cars owned by the trade? It seems the same thing to me

It's a tough call but I guess it depends on the confidence you have in the business. I would work 7 days a week if I could but I have to balance my roll as a father to my two children. I will go in on a Sunday for an appointment because I truly believe that being financial stable and showing my children a work ethic is is vital. My wife also gets called into work at all hours so neither of use understand a 9-5 work culture, in return we want for little and don't struggle. If I employed a salesperson I would expect then to work Saturdays and every other Sunday. Car sales is and always will be an unpredictable business, logic say weekend should be busy but sometimes you won't see a soul then sell 4 cars on a rainy Tuesday afternoon. If your not there you can't sell. Maybe in another 15-20 years I might feel different and things change. Credit to Jim for making the call and i'm sure his circumstances are different to mine. My only question is what do you do when you have gone a week without selling and someone whats to view a car on a Sunday? Is it the salespersons call? Your call or a 'NO'.

The unknown. We all know the finance is changing but smaller dealers are unsure what we have to do. Reading the guidence notes leaves me non the wiser as its written in a way thats hard to understand. Tell us what to do and how to do it and we will do it. One section of the notes talks about writing a business plan, all well and good but how many small dealers have every wrote a business plan, some of us wouldn't know where to start. I'm sure all of us who sell finance want to do the job right so why carn't the FCA help us do that

To be fair (and much to my amazement) when reading the Pistonheads forum on topics relating to used car dealers lots of people on there seem to be fairly level headed understanding the you do get what you pay for. But also you seem to get a few who love stirring up trouble with lots of mis-information so something that isn't a problem them becomes a problem. I guess it mimics our everyday lives where 90% of customers are no hassle but the 10% that are seem to have a deep mis trust of car dealers and a inflated idea of their rights.