EPV

Why are you doing this by the way? Do you love cars? Mechanics? Engineering? Detailing?

Been meaning to ask, what do you sell?

Indeed we are.

How long? In line with the CRA mate. The law. You buy a 6 year old car with 31k on from me and 3 months and 3,000 miles later, the gearbox inexplicably goes pop. I'd be finding a recon gearbox, cursing my luck and sorting it out. I think I'd have little chance of getting any joy out of a judge so would just do it and be done with it. If the car had 130k on and was 12 years old, I'd be taking my chances with the small claims court. Again, there's loads of grey between the two examples isn't there. I just personally think it's better to align the customers expectations with what they are entitled to in line with the law, than with a warranty that has undoubtedly raised their expectations, no matter how well you explained it's coverage. You asked why I value the PDI so highly and not a warranty earlier, well, because the PDI is the line in the sand that shows the fault was either there, or not. This is absolutely crucial when either accepting you need to repair something or, if you want to, rebut it. I value a PDI very highly also because it gives me peace of mind that a mechanic has gone over and above what an MOT tester would do and I know I'm selling a used vehicle in as best condition as possible. Rather that than a warranty any day of the week. For me, anyway.

I see your point but even Mr Clutch only offer a 12,000 mile (so 1 year basically) on a NEW clutch so if your warranty is 3 months and the clutch goes on 2 months 25 days you're saying you think the punter has a right to expect a USED one to last that long? Discretion I think is the key here. We all give examples of what we would and wouldn't do but there's seldom anything black and white in this area of discussion and where I say I don't offer a warranty if a nice chap came to me 6 weeks after he's bought a car from me and he says he had to get a new Fuel Pump fitted to his 65k 8 year old car and it costs him £300, I'd offer him £100 towards the cost as a gesture. If I didn't like the bloke, he badgered me for a discount constantly at pre sale stage, messed around a little and cribbed every scratch on the car I wouldn't be giving him the steam off my piss.

Alright, show off I should perhaps not use the word "maintenance" when I discuss this subject, I should instead say "repairs" I must say you lot are making me nervous now at all the punters I'm going to lose out on by not offering warranties I have in mind that I will play certain situations by ear. If at the end of the day, someone is adamant they want a warranty, I will offer a 3 month third party one for a £100 contribution from the punter (it will cost me £175) in the hope of doing a deal.

I will 100% return to offering warranties when I hopefully grow larger and offer higher value cars. A case in point, I offered a warranty (with all the exclusions listed) to a chap on a 2004 bmw 545i tourer. he had a battery issue the day after handover which I sorted straightaway for him, took his car back and even topped up the fuel tank. 8 weeks later he called me saying he needs to make another warranty claim, this time its a water pump and an oil leak "somewhere" and armed with the knowledge I did not have before, I declined to help him (politely) as the warranty does not cover wear and tear. He wasn't happy at all, saying it was a worthless warranty etc and you know what? I agree with him, it's worthless. I can do without having those sorts of conversations in my life, so I would rather, as you say, lower (well, align) people's expectation with the CRA and not kid them on I will pay for something weeks down the line when I won't. Your stock profile is definitely a cut above mine though Nick. If I were offering £14k electric cars to the middle class masses I would 100% be offering warranties.

I don't disagree with that, if a part like an alternator or starter motor failed a short period of time after they had been sold the car I would 100% contribute towards the cost. I don't dispute that at all. What's wrong with that? Should I instead put "you're on your own, sunshine" Aftercare meaning "if you ring me with a failed starter motor 2 days after you have bought a car, I will sort it out for you" It doesn't mean "2 months after you bought a car from me and driven it 2000 miles, I'll replace the clutch" There's a whole load of grey area between those two statements as well!

It may be shiny Nick but it's worthless. You know that as well as I do. Of course people love a warranty, why wouldn't they, you're offering to pay for their car repairs for a period of time, except for of course if it's not covered by wear and tear which is, incidentally, everything associated with a car. So you are in fact, offering to pay for nothing. Far better IMO for me to give them a shiny legal booklet that gives them their rights under the CRA and sets their expectations from the off, giving them confidence you will do right by them under the law but also that the maintenance of their car is their responsibility. I go into great detail about how I will be there for them when the law calls for it and that I am not someone who hides away and shirks. But I really can't see the point in duping people into believing they are getting something from me (all car repairs paid for) when I know they will be getting none of the sort.

Yes it does. Exactly my point. So why would I bother to give a customer something to warrant them against, well, nothing, and give them some sort of expectation and me the grief? Perhaps if I sold 3 year old £20k cars I would see things differently. But I don’t. I sell 10 year old 64k Miles or 8 year old 75k miles or 5 year old 127k Miles. EVERYTHING on the Lawgistics list, give or take, is subject to wear and tear. So it’s all excluded! Pointless for me and gives billy false expectations. I sell proper straight cars for good money. What happens in the months following that is the customers responsibility. Usually, nothing happens.

Since I started pretty much telling customers exactly what Arfur has said, the following has happened, two sales and one possible non sale via an enquiry about warranties; 1. 2009 Toyota Avensis, Eastern European chap rang, waxing lyrical about the video I made and the description. Wants to see the car ASAP, very keen. He asked what warranty I offer, I told him more or less word for word what Arfur says plus I said I stand by by obligations under the CRA 2015, it's the law and I don't hide from it or try and wriggle out of my lawful responsibilities as a bona fide trader. His response? "See I think I will buy a car from you because you are an honest man" and he came out, loved it, bought it. Off he went. 2. 2010 Audi A3, the bloke didn't even mention a warranty, at the end of the handover, I said "now I don't offer a warranty but..." and said my party piece and he nodded and said that seems fine with me and off he went. 3. Woman rings about a 2012 31k Ford Focus. "Hi I've seen your Ford Focus, what warranty does it come with?" and she gets my schpeel and eventually says "I think I need to look at a few others" but not before informing me that Ford have told her she can have a lifetime warranty on one of their cars for £500 upfront and £30 per month. So, did the fact I don't offer a warranty cause me to lose a sale? I highly, highly doubt it. The fact the first thing that came out of her mouth was "warranty" suggests shes the type that will worry herself to death over the slightest thing and clearly can't handle the fact she may have to take a car to a garage and face paying for repairs at some stage. She's I would say, the reason why 3rd party warranties exists and sell. Now had I still been offering my own in house warranty I can guarantee 2 weeks into ownership when a bulb goes or there's a small oil leak from somewhere she would be all over me demanding this that and the other. In all three cases so far I have benefited considerably from not offering a warranty. It's like AD has said in the past, it's really liberating to conduct your business this way. I have also ordered from Lawgistics, a job lot of little handbooks they sell, highlighting the salient points of the CRA. I hand these out at handover. I imagine some of you will be mortified at making a punter aware of their legal rights but it really helps get through to the punters heads that they are responsible for their own cars. I will help them in the case that if the day after sale their gearbox blows up! I'm not a dodgy rogue trader but I behave myself by the law, I don't hide behind anything. When you actually understand the CRA you start to realise it actually benefits US more than the punter, assuming you do your job properly which I do. So, there we go. Three real life examples of mine in the past week.

This is what I used to do, then I realised that it actually made no sense because what is listed in that Lawgistics warranty, I'm not prepared to cover, as most of it when failing on my stock profile, is down to wear and tear.

Don’t offer one!

BHM recommended them and if he uses them they must be good value for money. I reckon he’s what you could refer to as “careful” with his dough.

How is this all regulated? I thought only certain organisations could edit credit files?

I see. But I want a reckless, foolhardy consumer who throws caution to the wind and takes a £10k car on a 6 year term with no deposit?

Anyvan. Always transported and always reliable in my experience. Good prices too if you aren’t picky about which date it gets delivered on. Manchester to Bromley, Kent, sometime early next week say (might be before) £211. I think that’s good.

I’m not sure on the worth of this. 30% of credit files have one error. Some of those errors may not actually prevent a loan being offered. How many of the 30% are looking to buy a car? And then how many are looking to buy on finance?

I don’t really know and I probably won’t for a couple of years I expect.

Not before me you ain’t, get out of the way

Do you really want the added worry of your phone going off at 2am when a fox decides to piss up against your cars? Ok I realise that may not set off the CCTV or alarm but surely you want it linked to the police? You're only going to ring the law anyway?

This is my understanding also. The section 75 is there to protect consumers against rogue traders, not to provide consumers with a means of getting a refund just because they change their mind about a car or the car develops a minor fault that the dealer offers to rectify. By the way, I refuse credit cards and insist on bank transfer, cash or a deposit on debit card.

Yes I understand but they can’t do it for any reason they like? Buyers remorse, I mean.

They still have to have justified reason mate for a chargeback

Yeah, I know it's cheap. He makes it up by charging his retail customers £80ph though...