Lombard Stocking Loan on Car I thought was a Main Dealer PX

[MJG50 7]

I've just carried out an HPi check on a BCA car I'm interested in before the sale. I assumed it was a main dealer PX from the line it is in however the HPi has come up with a dealer stocking loan outstanding on it. I've never come across this before when HPi-ing an auction main dealer PX car.

Does this mean that the main dealer bought the car in for stock (using the stocking loan) and has now decided to stick it in the auction or is it common for main dealers to use stocking loans to buy their PXs? I just naturally assumed that if the car was a main dealer PX it wouldn't have been bought with a stocking loan.

If the main dealer has bought the car in for stock and has now put it in an auction it doesn't bode too well!

Update: I've carried out a bit of research since first posting this earlier this afternoon and I can see that stocking loans can be used to fund PXs but I still find it a bit strange as I've never come across it before when I've carried out HPi checks on BCA main dealer PX cars.

Greatly appreciate any thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance

Edited March 2, 2021 by MJG50

[Bmx Bandits 52]

I wouldn’t worry unnecessarily unless it fits into the vendors used car stock profile. 
 

It not uncommon to dealers to fund part exchanges especially coming upto plate change months, they need to carefully control their cash flow and with manufacturers taking full payment for a new car as soon as they are taxed, the dealer will potentially have to wait for the part exchange to have private plates removed, auctions to collect, be lotted, selling and then add a couple of days on top for them to receiving the proceeds from the sale. 
 

Its not the end of the world with a handful of cheap p/x’s but if a dealer has plenty of lumpy cars sitting around they can get themselves into trouble very quickly.

[Tony F 38]

I have the same happen from an auction car. It was a main dealer px that they had put on a stocking plan.(8k car).  I only found out as we sold the car within days and couldn’t get finance paid out until the unit stocking had been cleared.  
The most surprising thing was that the main dealer had even needed to use unit stocking as they are a fairly well know group and seemingly financially sound. 
Who knows what cash flow issues other may have 

[MJG50 7]

Many thanks for the info, much appreciated. I didn't even realise that main dealers used stocking loans on their PXs until today - it does make sense as a lot of lumpy PXs can add up to a lot of tied-up funds.

I agree with Tony F that I originally thought a big dealer group wouldn't need to use stocking loans. I thought they were mainly used by those fairly new to the trade who want to kick start a 20 car+ business. When I had a pitch in the 90s, I don't think stocking loans existed - as far as I'm aware, BCA and Manheim have only been offering them for the last few years.

I was a bit shocked at first to find an auction car on a stocking loan as up until today. I'd only ever expect a stocking loan to come up on a retail car advertised at a dealer.

Going back to the car, it's a Grade 2 low mileage 2014 Jag worth about £10k so I'd have thought it would fit the stock profile of the vendor (Pendragon who own Stratstone Jag) It has a small scratch on a door but otherwise looks pretty much ready to retail. I noticed that all the revolving air vents are closed in all the auction photos which is pretty odd as normally they open by default when the ignition is on. I'd imagine they work ok though as normally if there's a problem, it's more likely that one doesn't work rather than all 4. The Assured report is all clean, admittedly that doesn't mean there aren't possible niggles.

The other thing I do (which probably sounds paranoid!) is to check when the tax expired on all auction cars. While I appreciate that there can be delays, I tend to find most cars go from the part ex yard to the auction remarkably quickly - most cars lotted up in auction were last taxed about 10 days ago. This Jag has never had a private plate and it was last taxed 31st Jan and it was appraised by BCA on 26th Feb so my paranoia wonders if the car was intended for the forecourt, then a fault was found and it was decided to put it in the auction.

In the past, I've a Googled a few BCA main dealer PXs and I see that the main dealer has tried to retail them and then after 30 days or so put them in the auction. I quite like these as I tend to think if the dealer was retailing it, in theory there shouldn't be any major faults. As far as I can tell, the main dealer has never tried to retail the one I'm interested in. What I find quite bizarre is that a lot of overage stock cars are snapped up by independent dealers at auction and advertised at a higher price than the main dealer failed to sell it for! Quite often, they sell them fast though - you'd think people would rather buy from a main dealer for the manufacturer backed warranty.

Anyway thanks again, I'll be interested to see what that Jag makes tomorrow. I probably over-research them too much. The last few I've seen have made way over clean and they were all UK Car Group cars which I normally tend to avoid.

[metcars 397]

8 hours ago, MJG50 said:

Many thanks for the info, much appreciated. I didn't even realise that main dealers used stocking loans on their PXs until today - it does make sense as a lot of lumpy PXs can add up to a lot of tied-up funds.

I agree with Tony F that I originally thought a big dealer group wouldn't need to use stocking loans. I thought they were mainly used by those fairly new to the trade who want to kick start a 20 car+ business. When I had a pitch in the 90s, I don't think stocking loans existed - as far as I'm aware, BCA and Manheim have only been offering them for the last few years.

I was a bit shocked at first to find an auction car on a stocking loan as up until today. I'd only ever expect a stocking loan to come up on a retail car advertised at a dealer.

Going back to the car, it's a Grade 2 low mileage 2014 Jag worth about £10k so I'd have thought it would fit the stock profile of the vendor (Pendragon who own Stratstone Jag) It has a small scratch on a door but otherwise looks pretty much ready to retail. I noticed that all the revolving air vents are closed in all the auction photos which is pretty odd as normally they open by default when the ignition is on. I'd imagine they work ok though as normally if there's a problem, it's more likely that one doesn't work rather than all 4. The Assured report is all clean, admittedly that doesn't mean there aren't possible niggles.

The other thing I do (which probably sounds paranoid!) is to check when the tax expired on all auction cars. While I appreciate that there can be delays, I tend to find most cars go from the part ex yard to the auction remarkably quickly - most cars lotted up in auction were last taxed about 10 days ago. This Jag has never had a private plate and it was last taxed 31st Jan and it was appraised by BCA on 26th Feb so my paranoia wonders if the car was intended for the forecourt, then a fault was found and it was decided to put it in the auction.

In the past, I've a Googled a few BCA main dealer PXs and I see that the main dealer has tried to retail them and then after 30 days or so put them in the auction. I quite like these as I tend to think if the dealer was retailing it, in theory there shouldn't be any major faults. As far as I can tell, the main dealer has never tried to retail the one I'm interested in. What I find quite bizarre is that a lot of overage stock cars are snapped up by independent dealers at auction and advertised at a higher price than the main dealer failed to sell it for! Quite often, they sell them fast though - you'd think people would rather buy from a main dealer for the manufacturer backed warranty.

Anyway thanks again, I'll be interested to see what that Jag makes tomorrow. I probably over-research them too much. The last few I've seen have made way over clean and they were all UK Car Group cars which I normally tend to avoid.

Since the closure of physical auctions I feel the need to do as much research as I can on any prospective purchases. You might call it ‘paranoia’ and ‘over researching’, I say due diligence? And why not? We need all the help we can get?

[MJG50 7]

1 hour ago, metcars said:

Since the closure of physical auctions I feel the need to do as much research as I can on any prospective purchases. You might call it ‘paranoia’ and ‘over researching’, I say due diligence? And why not? We need all the help we can get?

Exactly, I've always tried to do as much pre-auction research as possible. It used to be interesting chatting to other traders at physical auctions, some were like me and did a lot of careful research and others didn't seem to pay any attention to the vendor of the car. My gut feeling with this one on a stocking loan and not entered in the auction for over 3 weeks makes me think it was intended for retail and then put in the auction when a fault was discovered. This vendor doesn't usually put this sort of car through the auctions either.

[trade vet 704]

Being on a stocking loan is the least of your worries.Unless things have changed,I doubt Pendragon would be ‘blocking’ a Grade 2 Low miles 14 Jag without it having something untoward they couldn’t fix.If it had been entered by Bristol Street that could be a different matter.Where we are they block a lot of very good ready to retail stuff presumably because of cash flow.

[MJG50 7]

1 hour ago, trade vet said:

Being on a stocking loan is the least of your worries.Unless things have changed,I doubt Pendragon would be ‘blocking’ a Grade 2 Low miles 14 Jag without it having something untoward they couldn’t fix.If it had been entered by Bristol Street that could be a different matter.Where we are they block a lot of very good ready to retail stuff presumably because of cash flow.

That's great advice trade vet, many thanks. It's been a long time since I used to regularly frequent the halls of Blackbushe and Bridgwater so I've become a bit out of touch of which vendors are selling certain types of stock. I think I'm right in saying that Evans Halshaw operate a 'We Buy Any Car' type outfit so it's possible some Pendragon cars are from that source as well.

Jardine often seem to sell very high end cars at auction - as I'm typing this I see there's a 69 plate 8 series going through! Not that I'm in the market for that sort of stock! I did initially think it a bit strange Pendragon blocking a low mileage Grade 2 2014 Jag. I bet it still makes more than I was hoping to pay anyway! As I was saying earlier, I've noticed that a lot of UK Car Group Premium and UK Car Group Low Mileage line cars are making a lot these days and it's difficult to work out where they are actually from. 

It can sometimes be tricky to work out why main dealers send stock they could sell themselves to auction - there was a BMW I was potentially interested in a while back and I was told that the BMW main dealer had to block it as it had missed its first service so couldn't be sold under their Approved Used banner.

Edited March 3, 2021 by MJG50

[trade vet 704]

50 minutes ago, MJG50 said:

That's great advice trade vet, many thanks. It's been a long time since I used to regularly frequent the halls of Blackbushe and Bridgwater so I've become a bit out of touch of which vendors are selling certain types of stock. I think I'm right in saying that Evans Halshaw operate a 'We Buy Any Car' type outfit so it's possible some Pendragon cars are from that source as well.

Jardine often seem to sell very high end cars at auction - as I'm typing this I see there's a 69 plate 8 series going through! Not that I'm in the market for that sort of stock! I did initially think it a bit strange Pendragon blocking a low mileage Grade 2 2014 Jag. I bet it still makes more than I was hoping to pay anyway! As I was saying earlier, I've noticed that a lot of UK Car Group Premium and UK Car Group Low Mileage line cars are making a lot these days and it's difficult to work out where they are actually from. 

It can sometimes be tricky to work out why main dealers send stock they could sell themselves to auction - there was a BMW I was potentially interested in a while back and I was told that the BMW main dealer had to block it as it had missed its first service so couldn't be sold under their Approved Used banner.

UK Car Group are We Buy Any Car and owned by BCA.They bring top money because they are generally good and have an ‘Assured ‘ description.I have bought plenty of them and when the odd one had been misdescribed in some way, BCA have been good about it.Maybe because they own and enter all UK Car Group vehicles.

[MJG50 7]

Thanks again trade vet, I'll bear that in mind in future. I was always a bit wary of UK Car Group cars in the past as I assumed some could be We Buy Any Car stock that private sellers wanted to get shot of. I have bought from UK Car Group before and they were fine though.

Incidentally, that Jag made £600 over CAP Clean, which was more than I was prepared to pay, even if I was 100% confident about it!

Edited March 3, 2021 by MJG50

[petrol head 46]

Go with your gut instinct on this one Mate, its a 7 year old Jag, so its borderline for a main dealer, which would lead me to think they have checked it found some issues.

 

[MJG50 7]

Yes, my gut instinct is that it's a wrong 'un but the older get, I seem to think that about nearly all auction cars are unless they are ex-lease!! In the end, it made more than I wanted to pay anyway! Jags are hardwork to buy now as there are quite a few specialists about that seem to be able to command top retail money for them.

[metcars 397]

2 hours ago, MJG50 said:

Yes, my gut instinct is that it's a wrong 'un but the older get, I seem to think that about nearly all auction cars are unless they are ex-lease!! In the end, it made more than I wanted to pay anyway! Jags are hardwork to buy now as there are quite a few specialists about that seem to be able to command top retail money for them.

Anyone can call themselves a specialist these days?

[MJG50 7]

Exactly! In some cases, it appears as though a specialist is just someone who sells the same type of car! That said, I appreciate some specialists are former main dealer sales staff and workshop staff so to be fair in their cases they probably know how to sort out any issues that arise.

[metcars 397]

1 minute ago, MJG50 said:

Exactly! In some cases, it appears as though a specialist is just someone who sells the same type of car! That said, I appreciate some specialists are former main dealer sales staff and workshop staff so to be fair in their cases they probably know how to sort out any issues that arise.

Well, anyone can buy a jaguar anorak off eBay? A specialist mechanic/workshop is one thing, but a specialist in sales? Anyone can say that? 

[MJG50 7]

Yes, that's very true! 

[DCS01 27]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:42 PM, petrol head said:

Go with your gut instinct on this one Mate, its a 7 year old Jag, so its borderline for a main dealer, which would lead me to think they have checked it found some issues.

 

As a ex Jag used car manager I would say the chances are it was put through the workshop and the amount of work to put it through as approved just wouldn’t have been profitable to get the work done.  An independent might not have to get as much of it fixed and if they did would be a fraction of the cost. 

[MJG50 7]

That's good advice, I'm always wary of buying something which in theory the vendor should be selling themselves.

A while back, I used to see a few Inchcape PXs at Blackbushe and a quick Google revealed that Inchcape had actively tried to sell them and advertised them but failed to sell them in 30 days hence blocking them. I always wondered if they had the full retail prep first or whether they get advertised and only prepped when a deposit is taken. Otherwise they'd be spending a lot on cars that eventually head to the block.

An old customer fancies an XF and is trying to decide between a last of the old shape 3.0 2014 or a 2.0 Ingenum 2018 XF. Buying a 2014 at auction is riskier than an ex lease 2.0 but to me, the 2.0 just feels like a normal reps car rather than a proper Jag.

[trade vet 704]

1 hour ago, MJG50 said:

That's good advice, I'm always wary of buying something which in theory the vendor should be selling themselves.

A while back, I used to see a few Inchcape PXs at Blackbushe and a quick Google revealed that Inchcape had actively tried to sell them and advertised them but failed to sell them in 30 days hence blocking them. I always wondered if they had the full retail prep first or whether they get advertised and only prepped when a deposit is taken. Otherwise they'd be spending a lot on cars that eventually head to the block.

An old customer fancies an XF and is trying to decide between a last of the old shape 3.0 2014 or a 2.0 Ingenum 2018 XF. Buying a 2014 at auction is riskier than an ex lease 2.0 but to me, the 2.0 just feels like a normal reps car rather than a proper Jag.

He probably just wants to attain Jag status.Those XType Mondeo Jags were the same ,the punters thought they had a Jag.

[DCS01 27]

4 hours ago, MJG50 said:

That's good advice, I'm always wary of buying something which in theory the vendor should be selling themselves.

A while back, I used to see a few Inchcape PXs at Blackbushe and a quick Google revealed that Inchcape had actively tried to sell them and advertised them but failed to sell them in 30 days hence blocking them. I always wondered if they had the full retail prep first or whether they get advertised and only prepped when a deposit is taken. Otherwise they'd be spending a lot on cars that eventually head to the block.

An old customer fancies an XF and is trying to decide between a last of the old shape 3.0 2014 or a 2.0 Ingenum 2018 XF. Buying a 2014 at auction is riskier than an ex lease 2.0 but to me, the 2.0 just feels like a normal reps car rather than a proper Jag.

Also it might depend if they have a 90 day policy. There are some dealers out there that if it hasn’t sold in 90 days they block it regardless.

 

[MJG50 7]

15 hours ago, trade vet said:

He probably just wants to attain Jag status.Those XType Mondeo Jags were the same ,the punters thought they had a Jag.

Yes it does feel as though the XE and 2015 on XF (which are hard to tell apart on the road) are almost modern day X-types in the sense that they don't really feel like proper Jaguars. I actually didn't mind an X-type back in the day though - they were pretty good sellers and drove pretty well. I've known people who had issues with theirs when new-ish but mine were all fault-free, they were all ex lease and under 3 years old at the time. I never trusted the auto box on them so stuck to manuals. The Mondeo it was based on was a good drive but ultimately I far preferred a 325i or 330i compared to an equivalent X-type to drive.

There are still quite a few very low mileage early X-types about bought by those who 'promised themselves a 'Jag' when they retired but sadly they are a nightmare for rust now. I remember seeing one without an MoT make £800 at Manheim and a quick MoT history check revealed it had been put through an MoT before being PX'd and it failed on a list as long as your arm for rust on the sills and pretty much everywhere else! 

12 hours ago, DCS01 said:

Also it might depend if they have a 90 day policy. There are some dealers out there that if it hasn’t sold in 90 days they block it regardless.

 

The 90 day policy can work out well potentially for auction buys as I have much more confidence in bidding on a car that a main dealer has already thought fit to retail themselves. In the past, I used to find that main dealers block prestige PXs that needed paintwork. They were mechanically fine so were good buys. I always thought it strange that the main dealer didn't do the paintwork themselves and retail them.

[petrol head 46]

My wife’s family had a JLR business, gave up 2.5 years ago as the level of investment they wanted would never have given any ROI. The dealer they replaced them with has got away with spending around a 1/4 of what they wanted us to spend. I was brought in to kind of mediate, but JLR were not for bending and couldn’t get their heads around the costs. There is more to this, but I won’t bore you here. 
 

Back to the XE the warranty claims were much higher than any other model, really poor quality. 

[Frank Cannon 812]

On 3/6/2021 at 10:56 AM, MJG50 said:

Yes it does feel as though the XE and 2015 on XF (which are hard to tell apart on the road) are almost modern day X-types in the sense that they don't really feel like proper Jaguars. I actually didn't mind an X-type back in the day though - they were pretty good sellers and drove pretty well. I've known people who had issues with theirs when new-ish but mine were all fault-free, they were all ex lease and under 3 years old at the time. I never trusted the auto box on them so stuck to manuals. The Mondeo it was based on was a good drive but ultimately I far preferred a 325i or 330i compared to an equivalent X-type to drive.

There are still quite a few very low mileage early X-types about bought by those who 'promised themselves a 'Jag' when they retired but sadly they are a nightmare for rust now. I remember seeing one without an MoT make £800 at Manheim and a quick MoT history check revealed it had been put through an MoT before being PX'd and it failed on a list as long as your arm for rust on the sills and pretty much everywhere else! 

The 90 day policy can work out well potentially for auction buys as I have much more confidence in bidding on a car that a main dealer has already thought fit to retail themselves. In the past, I used to find that main dealers block prestige PXs that needed paintwork. They were mechanically fine so were good buys. I always thought it strange that the main dealer didn't do the paintwork themselves and retail them.

I know some main agents that operate on 60 days.....then moan they can't get stock but, that said some late lumpy stuff can go backwards a chunk after 2 months. 

 

X Types: I had a good business out of those, never had a bad lump or box and great sellers.

That said, I had one bought at BCA Paddock Wood that when MOTd came back with a 'dangerous to drive' it was so rotten....no inner/outer/box section sills, fuck all belt anchor points, rotted out spring pans.....

....it was but 6 years old with only 40k from memory and, looked simply stunning in metallic red with oatmeal leather, virtually unmarked, full Jaguar history too.

I couldn't trace the previous owner but, Jaguar had a 6 year perforation warranty back then that was notoriously hard to claim against, the previous MOTs by the Jaguar dealer had no advise notes for anything let alone corrosion.....maybe a conflict of interests there but, surely the dealer would be paid to put right the car by Jaguar although strictly speaking by main agent costings the car was a write off? There must of been a story there? 

.....and, even more bizarrely I sold it in the ring, then it was MOTd again, was absolutely slaughtered by the tester, came back to the hall, then sold again and, it ended up on a Suzuki main agent used site on the South Coast, with the most moody MOT ever.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Frank Cannon

[CCC 31]

On 3/7/2021 at 12:38 PM, petrol head said:

My wife’s family had a JLR business, gave up 2.5 years ago as the level of investment they wanted would never have given any ROI. The dealer they replaced them with has got away with spending around a 1/4 of what they wanted us to spend. I was brought in to kind of mediate, but JLR were not for bending and couldn’t get their heads around the costs. There is more to this, but I won’t bore you here. 
 

Back to the XE the warranty claims were much higher than any other model, really poor quality. 

Our local LR dealer was forced to move from a great location and biggish place to a massive glass goldfish bowl in a large of town you rarely go to. All due to JLR requirements. Given the internet was already putting the writing on the wall that felt a stupid move at the time, now it seems insane. I worry JLR are in bigger trouble than they let on too. Massively unreliable and technology changing fast, and against big lumpy cars.

[petrol head 46]

2 hours ago, CCC said:

Our local LR dealer was forced to move from a great location and biggish place to a massive glass goldfish bowl in a large of town you rarely go to. All due to JLR requirements. Given the internet was already putting the writing on the wall that felt a stupid move at the time, now it seems insane. I worry JLR are in bigger trouble than they let on too. Massively unreliable and technology changing fast, and against big lumpy cars.

I think JLR are in trouble, they have the wondaful cocktail of Indian ownership, with Tata shares having taken a battering, along with the lethal combination of German and British management. 

They are not doing bad in the UK and China, possibly USA, but the rest of the world is a bit of a joke. About 10 years ago they opened a large regional center in Singapore with a large training center with more than a 100, largely ex pat staff. Nearly all gone now and sales have dwindled across the region ever since, largely as unlike, MB, BMW and everyone except Audi, they don't have a CKD (complete knockdown) strategy, so their products are taxed at the highest rate. 

Whilst I wouldn't touch an XE or any other Jag for that matter, the L405 RR and Sport are special products, nothing like them, but certainly not to be considered reliable.